Recent Moore/Iraq threads are concerning.

[Cory W]

The problem with the US methods is that currently, they take in little understanding for the cultures being fought. If you were a Palestinian child, you would view the United States as a terrorist state, no different than we view them (Palestine). Some of you adhere to naive mindsets in hopes that you can sleep better at night. I think the recent threads on Moore's movie and Iraq have been dissapointing in the way that we even exchange our ideas; they put our US mindset on display.

Am I calling the US a terrorist state? No, I am simply bringing to light that just because we live in the US, it doesn't make us the world saviors for all people. One thing that has always intrigued me is that so many US citizens call out for war, but few of them would go fight it. They claim they are inelligible, but I assure you, there is always something you can do. Half of these people would never even drop a nickel in a vets pale. Sometimes war is the only solution, but sometimes we need to remember that a lot of great people in this world died attempting to harness peaceful solutions. We are not a world merely of war heroes.

In 1948, the Indian / British Parliment passed a law setting borders along an asiatic land. To the North, the Muslims, to the South, the Hindus. A man by the name of Ghandi lobbied heavily against this. His reasoning was that by dividing the cultures and segregating ideals within borders, we would lose our hunger and desire to live together. In other words, people divided become aloof to other beliefs and ego-ridden with there own cultural standards and grow with disposition to cross-border groups.

Now, two of the largest known nuclear superpowers and one of, if not the most volitale parts of the world exist along the Pakistani and Indian border. Problem? They never attempted to understand each other.

And so The United States stands on similar grounds. We do not care about other beliefs. Me, I am an atheist. I see many Christian beliefs as ridiculous as Muslim beliefs, but I get to live with you all. I do wholeheartedly understand that those pro-war people want the same thing as the anti-war people: Peace. We would all take that as the solution, we all just have different methods of achieving such bliss. But I understand that. I understand your arguments. I would never call any of you dumb. I enjoy reading Ghandi like I enjoy reading Churchill. I will see a movie with left or right agendas.

Look for example at the tone of post on all the boards. It usually contains a hostile and aggressive tone. It is one thing to be passionate about your politics, but if part of being patriotic is calling out those with other beliefs as idiots or stupid, then I want none of that; it also goes a long way in explaining our many international turbulent affairs. Understanding is key, method is second to that, always.

I know this post comes off as high-handed to some degree, and I have every expectation in the world that it will be greeted with a flurry of "idiot" stamps on my name. But it is just an opinion, and those who attempt to see it from that view less the political / personal-labels will go much further in the way of understanding. You do not have to change your way of thinking to understand where others are coming from. Seeing a movie and attempting to understand the point of view will not hurt your mind. I am sure most presidents are familiar with Marx, like all Psychiatrist are familiar with Freud. Not labeling Moore a political genious, but simply using the viewpoints as examples.

Conservatives makes solid points, although I do not agree with them, I would never label them as dumb for being pro-war. When you say you will not go see a movie because it does not support your view, I have to wonder how secure you are with your beliefs.

If we can't even attempt to understand half of our own, how in the hell can we ever be expected to understand the rest of the world?

[ATL_Ryan]

good post. A nice change.

And yes I would hit it 2 times.

[BradM]

Damn Cory. Some good thoughts and points in there.

[Peaches]

Peronally, I'm saying I won't go see the movie because I don't want to put money in Moore's pocket. I will watch it when it's been out for a while on DVD and I'll get it from Netflix. I did the same with BFC and Roger and Me

Both R&M and BFC were interesting movies, but not what I'd pay money to see.

[Cory W]

Originally posted by Peaches
Peronally, I'm saying I won't go see the movie because I don't want to put money in Moore's pocket. I will watch it when it's been out for a while on DVD and I'll get it from Netflix. I did the same with BFC and Roger and Me

Both R&M and BFC were interesting movies, but not what I'd pay money to see.

To me, things like his film can only serve to help, not hinder, the process of legislation to some degree.

They always say that one vote counts, and it does, so long as you vote for one of the two rich white guys that have a real chance. There votes count more than yours. They can vote our kids go to war, and somehow, only one kid of the senate is overseas.

Speaking out keeps elected political officials / parties in some check. If I am a Democrat, I hope that someone keeps bashing them in Hollywood. With power comes greed in almost every case; so using the political freedoms we have is most advantageous to all of us

Nice to see CJ in this thread.

[mal]

[Mike AI]

Liberal's like to term this debate as a question of WAR or PEACE.

The reality is that the issue is about WAR or SURRENDER.

It is nice to think that if the mean US would just leave everyone alone, that the nice islamicists will leave us alone. These people do not target the miltiary but civilians, children, their own people ( killing other arabs).

[zanycash Pete]

Very isightful and well written!

[benc]

Radical muslims want Jews and anyone that supports them dead by any means necessary.


Unfortunately, I think the only solution is many years of bloodshed to keep them contained, much like the fight against communism played out.

The people with the loudest voices have no solution, I don't think they even understand the scope of the problem.

[Cory W]

Originally posted by benc
Radical muslims want Jews and anyone that supports them dead by any means necessary.


Unfortunately, I think the only solution is many years of bloodshed to keep them contained, much like the fight against communism played out.

The people with the loudest voices have no solution, I don't think they even understand the scope of the problem.

US backed funding of Israel: If we didn't, do you still believe pre-Iraq we would be involved with hostility with the Muslim world?

Within these years of bloodshed you suggest are needed, in what way do you intend to contribute outside of pulling a voting lever? Are you willing to die for the cause?

Are you suggesting that Vietnam was a part of the "Communism bloodshed?"


The post was not a view, it was an inquiry into why we as a group can't allow other views into our household. Quite frankly, it is scarey.

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by WEGCashCory
US backed funding of Israel: If we didn't, do you still believe pre-Iraq we would be involved with hostility with the Muslim world?

Within these years of bloodshed you suggest are needed, in what way do you intend to contribute outside of pulling a voting lever? Are you willing to die for the cause?

Are you suggesting that Vietnam was a part of the "Communism bloodshed?"


The post was not a view, it was an inquiry into why we as a group can't allow other views into our household. Quite frankly, it is scarey.

Great idea, who should cut off all support to the only Democracy with free markets in the region!

Even if we did this, it would not be enough to appease the islamicists.

This is larger then Israel, this is a clash of cultures. Between those who want to live in the 21st Century, and those who want to turn the clock back to 1200s.

I wonder what Bin Laden and his friends opinion would be of a "metrosexual"?

[EZRhino]

Extremists will never really the US and other allies alone for the simple fact that we support contries that they do not like. Like Isreal. Yes we armed and supported the country of Isreal but look at the alternative. The arabs will try to finish what hitler started and eliminate all the jews. Look at any extremists website or even moderates. They hate us becuase we do business with people they dont like so therefore we get attacked. We practiced isolationism in the 1930's and Pearl Harbor happens. We dont even touch terroists countries and 9/11 happens. Believe me our government would rather do business then war. I dont think a single president has been re-elected after a war or major police action, except Rosevelt. I could be wrong one that one tho.

[LaurieX]

wow

[Khun]

Good read, thanks for posting it.

[leedsfan]

Originally posted by Mike AI
Great idea, who should cut off all support to the only Democracy with free markets in the region!

Even if we did this, it would not be enough to appease the islamicists.

This is larger then Israel, this is a clash of cultures. Between those who want to live in the 21st Century, and those who want to turn the clock back to 1200s.

I wonder what Bin Laden and his friends opinion would be of a "metrosexual"?

It's not just Islamic fundamentalists (islamicists is NOT a word by the way) who want to turn the clocks back to 1200. Look at Christian fundalmentalists (which represents about 30% of the U.S. population, to what they would do. They want to ban abortion, stop all gay marriages, stop porn, go back to putting A's on women's chests for being adulterers...even use stoning as punishment. You fancy getting stoned to death for visiting a porn website out of wedlock...as they would like?

Look at whats happening within your own country, and don't be so shallow.

I bet your idea of a metrosexual is probably exactly the same as Bin Laden's anyway. And why the fuck havent any of you realised that it was Reagan and Bush senior who funded Bin Laden for years....they are entirely responsible for what has happened in the middle east. Not average americans.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by Peaches
Peronally, I'm saying I won't go see the movie because I don't want to put money in Moore's pocket. I will watch it when it's been out for a while on DVD and I'll get it from Netflix. I did the same with BFC and Roger and Me

Both R&M and BFC were interesting movies, but not what I'd pay money to see.

I ain't going 2 see Moore's movie,
















but of course I don't go see ANY moves very very seldom watch them of TV also.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by Mike AI
Liberal's like to term this debate as a question of WAR or PEACE.

The reality is that the issue is about WAR or SURRENDER.

It is nice to think that if the mean US would just leave everyone alone, that the nice islamicists will leave us alone. These people do not target the miltiary but civilians, children, their own people ( killing other arabs).

I just saw today on the news, they ask a ** freedom fighter ** what if the USA pulled out of Iraq and went home, he said we would follow them. I'm sure it wouldn't be a site seeing visit.

That should give people a little clue.

[jukeboxfrank]

well you do realize that there are only 575 members of congress
and out of those most are in there late 50's or 60's How many
of those do you think have kids of draft age? Also if someone does not stop the frighting in the middle east we will all suffer even more in the end.. That is why I am for the war I hope we
can sit on them until they come to their sense's .

[smack]

If we can't even attempt to understand half of our own, how in the hell can we ever be expected to understand the rest of the world?

If every person worked just a little on being more understanding and tolerant, the world would be a much better place. unfortunately, selfishness, greed, and fear of what is not familiar to us always seems to stand in the way. perhaps one day people will understand.

[BlueDesignStudios]

Fantastic post Cory!

Very true what you say - you've really just approached everything with an open mind and I admire people such as yourself - I'd imagine all the travels you would have done would have helped you reach such a point no doubt?

[Peaches]

Originally posted by leedsfan
Look at Christian fundalmentalists (which represents about 30% of the U.S. population, to what they would do. They want to ban abortion, stop all gay marriages, stop porn, go back to putting A's on women's chests for being adulterers...even use stoning as punishment.

30%??!! Where are you pulling that number from? I would suspect it's actually closer to 5% - if that.

[Cory W]

Originally posted by BlueDesignStudios
Fantastic post Cory!

Very true what you say - you've really just approached everything with an open mind and I admire people such as yourself - I'd imagine all the travels you would have done would have helped you reach such a point no doubt?

When I went to Peru, I went for the experience of seeing a wonder of the world. What I would get out of it would be much different. Amid the dark and sullen poverty, were a people more or less surviving. On my third night in the jungles, I began to vomit intensely. They sent in some jungle doctor who spoke only spanish. Thankfully, I knew a little. He told me, more or less, that the possibility of malaria existed. The only way out was to have a porter tie me to a mule to get me out. I chose to continue, I knew it was my only shot at Machu Pichu. I carried that sickness with me all the way up that mountain.

When I arrived back in Lima, I discovered that although I was better, during the fever-driven delusions, I lost my anti-anxiety medicine. I relapsed, or so thought I did, into a real dreary sickness which included heavy and intense vomiting, delusions and nightmares. I couldn't sleep and I could hardly go outside into the sunlight.

I was in what is known as a Paxil withdrawl. That changed everything. All I could think was, "Damn, these people are dying from starvation, and because I looked for an easy way out of my stress, I can hardly move."

So a few days later, I paid a cabby 50 cents for a lift to Lima's airport. To be honest, I wanted out, I was depressed. I went to jump a plane to Bolivia. I wanted to see one of the greatest countries in the world. The flight crew told me, "but you are American, you should reconsider your travels sir."

I was astounded! How could they deny me a flight? I am an American with money, and I am sick to the bones and I want out of this dreary hell? I laid against a wall, wrapped myself in a handnit blanket, thinking I need a new plan, and quickly. I was sick still, so many times, I had to cover the blanket so that the local peddlers did not ask me for money. Those peddles were all to much a constant reminder to what an idiot I really was. Then, a US citizen approached me, he carried with him a glare of possesed knowledge.

"They are putting in a gas line, and the Bolivians are throwing stones at the Americans. That is why you can't go."
He said.

"But I logged into cnn.com man, what do you..."
I replied.

He laughed at me. "When you leave, do not tell anyone back in the states what is happening, it is the American way. And get better my friend, the journey is always much longer than expected for one who decides to listen and learn."

No truer words have ever been spoken. I never gave my view on the war, or Moore's movie in this post. I gave my view on our behavior. We take cnn facts and blanket them over real lives all over the world, and then declare an agenda. And then, we call out those that don't agree as unpatriotic or even worse, idiotic. We never listen to why they don't agree and realize that buried in the thought rubble lyes a small point. I said I see the point of conservatives, and have not once concluded a conservative as an idiot. Look at this thread, or the one on the other board, and look at the ones that wage insult wars

9-11, as I term it, was like the cord that goes from an amplifier to a big stereo. The stereo was loud to begin with but now that cord is plugged in, and the neighbors don't appreciate the music.

"How can you not want to blow up the Arabs???? Do you not want justice for the victims? Do you not support our troops?"

This thread was started because of the seemingly endless pro-war supporters use of desperate insults at other people's views. If you take a moment, listen to another's (opinion, viewpoint, religion, culture) then we can talk about what being a United States citizen is all about. Until then, those that adher to such behavior are no different than fanatics all over the world.

I bet roughly 70 percent of all US citizens do not have a passport. Now, that being said, crunch some numbers if you will.

50 percent (US) roughly oppose the war, which is inherently US foreign policy. I wonder how many of those 50 percent hold a passport?

How many Europeans oppose the war?

How many Europeans posses a passport?

How many registered voters in the US vote on foreign policy, but have only read the National Geographic yearly issue about the African women that carry jugs of water on their head for 9 hours daily though southwest Africa?

If the people in the US made a clear effort to understand others views, the elections would be different.

Now, can we stop critizing a guy that makes a movie you don't agree with? The only thing capable of truely swaying an election is a group of people that choose to understand each other. Not a movie.

[Cory W]

Originally posted by smack
If every person worked just a little on being more understanding and tolerant, the world would be a much better place. unfortunately, selfishness, greed, and fear of what is not familiar to us always seems to stand in the way. perhaps one day people will understand.

[pimplink]

Very well said.

[johnyplexx]

....you would view the United States as a terrorist state, no different than we view them (Palestine)....

am i missing something here?

THE JEWS INVADED PALISTINE

how can you call palestine a terrorist state?

if england invaded america im sure americans would resist, just like palestinians are resisting the jewish occupation of THIER HOMELAND.

stop watching propoganda, the jews stole thier homeland, the jews killed the english forign minister in a hotel bombing and blamed it on palestine.


jews are the terrorists, jews got the americans to invade iraq, iran will be next, the jews play both sides...jews are in bed with russians and americans and fucking you both.

why arnt we helping palestine? why arnt we sending a peacekeeping force to repel the jews?

[fudpuck]

Originally posted by Khun
Good read, thanks for posting it.

[fudpuck]

Nice job..this really is a great post.

[johnyplexx]

Originally posted by leedsfan
It's not just Islamic fundamentalists (islamicists is NOT a word by the way) who want to turn the clocks back to 1200. Look at Christian fundalmentalists (which represents about 30% of the U.S. population, to what they would do. They want to ban abortion, stop all gay marriages, stop porn, go back to putting A's on women's chests for being adulterers...even use stoning as punishment. You fancy getting stoned to death for visiting a porn website out of wedlock...as they would like?

Look at whats happening within your own country, and don't be so shallow.

I bet your idea of a metrosexual is probably exactly the same as Bin Laden's anyway. And why the fuck havent any of you realised that it was Reagan and Bush senior who funded Bin Laden for years....they are entirely responsible for what has happened in the middle east. Not average americans.

haahahah your a moron, i always love a country that dams god then asks him to bless america

[Cory W]

Originally posted by johnyplexx
am i missing something here?

THE JEWS INVADED PALISTINE

how can you call palestine a terrorist state?

I am not calling them a terrorist state, I am simply pointing out perspectives from both angles. Without understanding why one believes the other to be a security / culture threat, we can never even begin to solve the problem.

[The Bootyologist]

Originally posted by mal

[jade_dragon]

It was said here well. To think that us pulling out will end this is incorrect. Unfortunately those who are religious fanatics will wish to see the end of us not only because we have and continue to support the Jews but we are infidels. I dare any christian to look down on this because in the christian history the same thing happened, if you were not a christian you were to be killed on sight.

Just as this was abandoned by most christians so it has and will be abandoned by islamics as time changes and they find it "wrong" to do so.

But the fact of the matter is the only way to stop the war now is to be the last standing, if we could purge the middle east of all individuals who would fight against us because we are chritian, then kill all those who are mad we killed those who opposed us then we could all gurantee peace. As soon as that seems probable and realistic let me know cuz from where I stand we can not do that amongst our own people let alone across a huge cultural differance. Sorry to say it but the war was started years ago, there were only lulls in the fighting it never ended.

[Groove]

That was an intelligent and thoughtful post.

You will be banned from GFY shortly

[Cory W]

Originally posted by Groove
That was an intelligent and thoughtful post.

You will be banned from GFY shortly

LOL

Thanks man. Every now and then, this board manages to pull me in. Those afraid to see the movie, likely skipped this thread as well.

[spamofon]

[Cassie]

Originally posted by smack
If every person worked just a little on being more understanding and tolerant, the world would be a much better place. unfortunately, selfishness, greed, and fear of what is not familiar to us always seems to stand in the way. perhaps one day people will understand.

lets be honest, you have to worry about yourself before you worry about the ways, wants and means of others. if you can understand yourself, you will never be able to understand others.

[Cory W]

Originally posted by Cassie
lets be honest, you have to worry about yourself before you worry about the ways, wants and means of others. if you can understand yourself, you will never be able to understand others.

I think people in the US have dedicated quite enough time to "understanding themselves."

[Aly-Python]

Originally posted by WEGCashCory
The problem with the US methods is that currently, they take in little understanding for the cultures being fought. If you were a Palestinian child, you would view the United States as a terrorist state, no different ....
...understand half of our own, how in the hell can we ever be expected to understand the rest of the world?

marry me.

[Cory W]

Originally posted by Aly-Python
marry me.

What will you tell JohnnyV? I was there for your make out session on your show, remember?