Programmers, why are you all so LAZY?!

[galleryseek]

Is it a myth that most programmers are lazy?

My programmer is a lazy pile of shit, I can tell ya that much.

it's complicated shit biatch!

[StuartD]

Programmers sole responsibility is to make life easier for people to do their computers tasks....

think about this.... COMPUTER TASKS. How energetic do you need to be to do that in the first place?

[Linguist]

Myth? Nah
I'm a programmer and I'm lazy as fuck

Sometimes I do bust my ass when on a programming spree though

[budz]

Originally posted by Sjelefall

Sometimes I do bust my ass when on a programming spree though

yup, then work like there was no yesterday..

[Dagwolf]

You have to give your programmer Jolt Cola or Espresso and lots of twinkies to make him function properly. Also provide porn mags in the restroom so he doesn't wind up surfing it on company time.

[phpslave]

Originally posted by galleryseek
Is it a myth that most programmers are lazy?

My programmer is a lazy pile of shit, I can tell ya that much.

a lot of programmers are, however the programmers i've worked with in the last 3 years at ARS, i can say that is a Myth.

We all put in some hours together and got shit done!!!!

rock
diane
keith
mike
darby

you all rock!!!

If i missed any, yah they were lazy bastards. LOL, no really they were.

[Ash@phpFX]

im usually lazy in general, but not when im programming

[Napolean]

those of us programmers with skill usually have A.D.D or somethin, dunno why it always works out that way.

im pretty damn good, its just impossible for me to concentrate on anything anymore

[pornJester]

Most of the programmers I've known have been lazy, slow, and just an all around pain in the ass.

[jukeboxfrank]

Hey Hey I resemble that last remark...

[venturi]

Many clients (not all) I have dealt with are clueless, simple minded, non-thinking morons that think about hiring someone 3 months past when they should have been approaching someone to fulfill their needs. If ya wanted it yesterday then maybe you should have contacted me 3 weeks ago, huh.

Got an idea you want to pursue? Great! Talk to me (or your programmer of choice) about it in advance. Let them plan their schedule so it can happen on a realistic timetable. Don't come to me two days before you want to launch "the latest innovation" and expect me to jump through firey hoops to meet your deadline. Not going to happen, sorry.

I will expedite things for clients - IF they pay me upfront and are willing to pay a premium price. However I won't sacrifice deadlines I have with other clients to suit your "emergency" unless it's a support issue from something I've already provided you.

It really cracks me up (sadly) when people contact me and say shit like "I need a custom (insert monster request) created THIS WEEK!" My response is generally "good luck".

Lazy? Nah, but we sure as hell get tired of people thinking we can pull a rabbit out of the hat at any given time.

Let me ask this question: When you're buying graphic design or gallery/site work do you expect that you're going to get deliverables in a day or two? Do you honestly think that the quality folks that do that kind of work are sitting on their hands WAITING for work? I'm betting not usually. You should take the same type of attitude with the programmers you are looking to hire. Generally, we're pretty busy ourselves. Programming makes this industry work and turn profits. Take away all the Perl/PHP/mySQL backend stuff and nobody makes money here.

So, when you think you *might* want something done programatically approach a programmer THEN rather than wait until you are 3 days away from wanting to launch it. PLAN your business and be proactive. You might be surprised at how it works to your benefit. Coming to a programmer at the very last minute is going to do a couple things:
1) It's going to cost you out the ass to expedite it, if you CAN get it expedited.
2) You're going to see your deadline be redefined multiple times because unless there is a massive team of programmers working to get it done you are screwed.

OK, enough ranting - Has anyone that watched Zoolander noticed that Juicy and Ben Afleck's character share the same look?

[Nathan]

Hi,

got a weird question. All you people that complain about lazy programmers. Do you program?

If you do not have a single clue of programming, how can _YOU_ deceide how long something is supposed to take? This one puzzles me all the time. Thats what is a pain when dealing with clients that have absolutely no clue.

On the other hand, many programmers are lazy, but its often to do with the fact that programming needs quite a lot of concentration, and if you have something else in your head, you just can't do it.

Also, if you think they are lazy because a programmer told you "it will take 2 weeks" and it takes 6, then just accept that fact that a programmer usually has no clue about how long it takes, is mostly guessing a time, and often knows very well that clients think programming is an easy thing and should take 2 minutes so giving a too long time will just make them lose the project.

[venturi]

You're my (new) hero, Nathan.


But you're not getting my gerbils!!!!

[spentrent]

Originally posted by Napolean
those of us programmers with skill usually have A.D.D or somethin, dunno why it always works out that way.

im pretty damn good, its just impossible for me to concentrate on anything anymore

I second this.

It's amazing though how much faster one gets a boring task done when there's a direct relationship between boring task and money in the bank.. money that isn't severely crippled on the way to you from an employer.

[pornJester]

Originally posted by Nathan

Also, if you think they are lazy because a programmer told you "it will take 2 weeks" and it takes 6, then just accept that fact that a programmer usually has no clue about how long it takes, is mostly guessing a time, and often knows very well that clients think programming is an easy thing and should take 2 minutes so giving a too long time will just make them lose the project.

If someone says 2 weeks and delivers in 6 weeks that's a little ridiculous. You have to understand that the person requesting the programming is running a business and models his business around deadlines. If he expects something in two weeks and is waiting 3 times that then everything else that was reliant on that two week timeframe is mildly screwed.

I think a programmer should overestimate the time frame rather than approximate. I would rather someone tell me 6 weeks if they are thinking to themselves that it would only take two.

[Nathan]

Originally posted by pornJester
If someone says 2 weeks and delivers in 6 weeks that's a little ridiculous. You have to understand that the person requesting the programming is running a business and models his business around deadlines. If he expects something in two weeks and is waiting 3 times that then everything else that was reliant on that two week timeframe is mildly screwed.

I think a programmer should overestimate the time frame rather than approximate. I would rather someone tell me 6 weeks if they are thinking to themselves that it would only take two.

I do realize that this would make more sense ;)

Would you also be willing to pay 3 times as much?

[venturi]

Originally posted by spentrent
I second this.

It's amazing though how much faster one gets a boring task done when there's a direct relationship between boring task and money in the bank.. money that isn't severely crippled on the way to you from an employer.

BAH! Has nothing to do with ADD or anything else. If you truly come to a programmer with a "simple" task then it's likely that they already have done it before and have a code library that they can snip from to get something easy done.

[Validus]

I thought this is a topic on which I can contribute a little. First, I do have basic programming knowledge; this does not mean I am a programmer, more somebody who has done some programming in the past.

There are lazy programmers and there are non-lazy programmers. In most cases, if a programmer appears to be lazy, they simply need to be motivated. Most programmers also require some degree of attention and ?control?. This is task usually falls into the responsibility area of the Project Manager / Project Management Team. Setting up a report structure on a daily or weekly basis can help in some cases. I?ve written a few articles about Project Management that can be found on YNOT Masters.

[Napolean]

Originally posted by pornJester
If someone says 2 weeks and delivers in 6 weeks that's a little ridiculous. You have to understand that the person requesting the programming is running a business and models his business around deadlines. If he expects something in two weeks and is waiting 3 times that then everything else that was reliant on that two week timeframe is mildly screwed.

I think a programmer should overestimate the time frame rather than approximate. I would rather someone tell me 6 weeks if they are thinking to themselves that it would only take two.

in my experience, whenever i give my honest opinion on how long it will take, they dont usually understand and some clients are just rude about it..

"i thought you were good, i guess that was bullshit"
"thats ridiculous, it will take the long?? fuck that ill take my business elsewhere.. keep practicing before you wanna be serious in this biz"

"you want me to pay THAT much when its going to take THAT long?? I think I should get a discount if your THAT slow"

[Baal]

I don't know your programmer, but I will say that most *good* mainstream programmers can get from $80 - $120 an hour, so any programmer who charges signifigantly less than this can't code as well as your average programmer out there. Now, I understand that times are tough and some talented folks must sell their coding services for less than this, but keep that range in mind. You get what you pay for.

I can't tell you how many times folks have approached me with a coding project and expected to pay me $5-$15 an hour. They cite others' rates as a basis for their numbers. I reccomend that if that's their budget, then hire a low bidder to code the application, then pay me the real money to fix it if it doesn't meet expectations. I remember one case a few months ago, where a developer won a contract to code a custom web server log extraction utility (basic stuff), and agreed to be paid $6.00 an hour. 2 weeks later (on a 2 hour job), the developer delivered the code and was paid. But the program didn't run. The developer essentially said "I don't know how to impliment it; I'm just a developer."

That's like hiring someone to build a car for you, and them saying "I don't know how to make it run; I'm just a car manufacturer." *That's* why they charged only $6.00 an hour.

Anyhow, good luck with your projects.

[Napolean]

Originally posted by Baal
I don't know your programmer, but I will say that most *good* mainstream programmers can get from $80 - $120 an hour, so any programmer who charges signifigantly less than this can't code as well as your average programmer out there. Now, I understand that times are tough and some talented folks must sell their coding services for less than this, but keep that range in mind. You get what you pay for.

I can't tell you how many times folks have approached me with a coding project and expected to pay me $5-$15 an hour. They cite others' rates as a basis for their numbers. I reccomend that if that's their budget, then hire a low bidder to code the application, then pay me the real money to fix it if it doesn't meet expectations. I remember one case a few months ago, where a developer won a contract to code a custom web server log extraction utility (basic stuff), and agreed to be paid $6.00 an hour. 2 weeks later (on a 2 hour job), the developer delivered the code and was paid. But the program didn't run. The developer essentially said "I don't know how to impliment it; I'm just a developer."

That's like hiring someone to build a car for you, and them saying "I don't know how to make it run; I'm just a car manufacturer." *That's* why they charged only $6.00 an hour.

Anyhow, good luck with your projects.

I always shoot for $30/hr..

anyone who offers me $15/hr I tell them to look elsewhere.

course, I dont program anymore right now.. tryin to get my head together.. its impossible for me to concentrate on any work, too many things going on in my offline life =/

i need to get aderol

[pornJester]

Originally posted by Napolean

i need to get aderol

Aderol is some good shit. My neighbor used to hook me up when I was feeling slow or tired, but he moved.

[johnbosh]

the yare 24h behind the pc:D

[Napolean]

Originally posted by pornJester
Aderol is some good shit. My neighbor used to hook me up when I was feeling slow or tired, but he moved.

its hard for me to get too.. but worth it when i can, im totally locked in on my work when im on it.

[venturi]

I billed out at $82/hr when I was a senior analyst. not bad, but I got paid $38/hr. I agree though that programmers in this biz are seriously underpaid.

I had a client (he's a retard on this board) who wanted a database of members migrated to a new application. I told him $1/member to write the script that would import his paid members and he threw a coniption fit.
OK, you have 1000 members paying $10/mo - now I charge you $1 per member ONE TIME to migrate them into your new database and you cry foul? HAHAHAHA!

[Mishi]

Originally posted by Nathan
I do realize that this would make more sense ;)

Would you also be willing to pay 3 times as much?

You are my new hero.

[Baal]

Originally posted by venturi
I billed out at $82/hr when I was a senior analyst. not bad, but I got paid $38/hr. I agree though that programmers in this biz are seriously underpaid.

I had a client (he's a retard on this board) who wanted a database of members migrated to a new application. I told him $1/member to write the script that would import his paid members and he threw a coniption fit.
OK, you have 1000 members paying $10/mo - now I charge you $1 per member ONE TIME to migrate them into your new database and you cry foul? HAHAHAHA!

*Shrug* Let that client hire the lowest bidder. Watch the lowest bidder's response when anomolies are found in the migrated data and the lowest bidder blames... um... sunspots. *YOU* can then step in and do your job, and charge your fees to pick up the pieces. Programmers who deserve to get paid reasonable wages get the shit done, period.

[The Dawg]

I will say alot of programmers are hard to find once work is DONE if there is a problem. I do know from talking to some of these guys from time to time that they are really overworked and stressed out.

I am happy with the last couple of programmers I worked with tho' - Mike503 & modifried.

[Babaganoosh]

Originally posted by Napolean
those of us programmers with skill usually have A.D.D or somethin, dunno why it always works out that way.

im pretty damn good, its just impossible for me to concentrate on anything anymore

I thought it was just me. I can't do shit anymore. I have actually considered taking some adult ADD medication to see if that can square me away. I can't decide if it's ADD, burnout or just laziness.

[Napolean]

Originally posted by Armed & Hammered
I thought it was just me. I can't do shit anymore. I have actually considered taking some adult ADD medication to see if that can square me away. I can't decide if it's ADD, burnout or just laziness.

im pretty sure im ADD, my concentration has gotten a lot worse over this year..

problem is I dont have any health insurance, so seeing a doctor would be pretty expensive for me.

[galleryseek]

Originally posted by venturi
Many clients (not all) I have dealt with are clueless, simple minded, non-thinking morons that think about hiring someone 3 months past when they should have been approaching someone to fulfill their needs. If ya wanted it yesterday then maybe you should have contacted me 3 weeks ago, huh.

Got an idea you want to pursue? Great! Talk to me (or your programmer of choice) about it in advance. Let them plan their schedule so it can happen on a realistic timetable. Don't come to me two days before you want to launch "the latest innovation" and expect me to jump through firey hoops to meet your deadline. Not going to happen, sorry.

I will expedite things for clients - IF they pay me upfront and are willing to pay a premium price. However I won't sacrifice deadlines I have with other clients to suit your "emergency" unless it's a support issue from something I've already provided you.

It really cracks me up (sadly) when people contact me and say shit like "I need a custom (insert monster request) created THIS WEEK!" My response is generally "good luck".

Lazy? Nah, but we sure as hell get tired of people thinking we can pull a rabbit out of the hat at any given time.

Let me ask this question: When you're buying graphic design or gallery/site work do you expect that you're going to get deliverables in a day or two? Do you honestly think that the quality folks that do that kind of work are sitting on their hands WAITING for work? I'm betting not usually. You should take the same type of attitude with the programmers you are looking to hire. Generally, we're pretty busy ourselves. Programming makes this industry work and turn profits. Take away all the Perl/PHP/mySQL backend stuff and nobody makes money here.

So, when you think you *might* want something done programatically approach a programmer THEN rather than wait until you are 3 days away from wanting to launch it. PLAN your business and be proactive. You might be surprised at how it works to your benefit. Coming to a programmer at the very last minute is going to do a couple things:
1) It's going to cost you out the ass to expedite it, if you CAN get it expedited.
2) You're going to see your deadline be redefined multiple times because unless there is a massive team of programmers working to get it done you are screwed.

OK, enough ranting - Has anyone that watched Zoolander noticed that Juicy and Ben Afleck's character share the same look?

Understandable, but I honestly haven't done that. The situation me n' my programmer has is a partnership. And hes unmotivated it's been 7 months now (it has taken that long cause hes fucking lazy) since the beginning of the project and it's not that the coding is *too* complex, it's just that he doesn't work enough, plain n' simple. I've known him for over 6 years and I know he doesn't really DO anything else.

If you're going to be in a partnership, fulfill your end of it.

And I'm an intermediate programmer myself, so yes I do know what it consists of.

I'm working under the SAME conditions as he is, and I do my end.

Fuck lazy people!!!!

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by venturi

Let me ask this question: When you're buying graphic design or gallery/site work do you expect that you're going to get deliverables in a day or two? Do you honestly think that the quality folks that do that kind of work are sitting on their hands WAITING for work? I'm betting not usually.

This is how people think with design too.

In fact I don't think I've seen a "I need a back end script programmed ASAP!" thread.

But I've seen plenty of "I need design work done ASAP," threads on here.

[s9ann0]

Well for people that hire programmers aren't you too lazy to learn it yourself ?


I mean you probably think you are a bussinessperson or and internet marketing something"


We know the scripts on your server are fucked the load average is too high, theres script kiddies running bnc off it and you're paying too much for bandwidth

You don't understand what a nitemare it is to sort your shit out + you want it done yesterday and you want to pay fuck all and you'll probably change the whole shit of it right before we finish

[galleryseek]

Originally posted by spanno
Well for people that hire programmers aren't you too lazy to learn it yourself ?


I mean you probably think you are a bussinessperson or and internet marketing something"


We know the scripts on your server are fucked the load average is too high, theres script kiddies running bnc off it and you're paying too much for bandwidth

You don't understand what a nitemare it is to sort your shit out + you want it done yesterday and you want to pay fuck all and you'll probably change the whole shit of it right before we finish

BOO HOO.

If your client sets a reasonable timeline, and you agree, GET IT FUCKING DONE!!

Because "It's too hard" does NOT mean you can sit around all day JERKING YOUR MEAT and only messing with it for 2 hours.

Sure, if you're having difficulty with something, I can understand. Just keep WORKING at it...don't fucking give up after an hour or two and waste the whole day away.

[Lane]

One of my professors in college told me, if you estimate how long a programming project will take, it will probably take up to 3 times as long.

Based on some statistics about the programming industry, only about 30% of the projects get done on-time and on-budget and about 30% get cancelled. This was covered in one of my Software Engineering classes as well.

[pornpf69]

lazy programmers are the best programmers!

[Sly_RJ]

I've had my fair share of shitty situations with programmers, but our current programmer is just plain kick ass. Whips things up in a snap and is very good.