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Rose

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#1

Caring for free surfers

02-17-2001, 08:02 AM

I just visited few Big TGP's and some of their rules are ridiculous.Why do we care so much about free loaders? No blind links,no pop ups etc...We serve them free porn on daily bases.They have no need to pay for sex.
We should make sure they know that free porn on the net comes with price.I f they want
convenient porn surfing they should join pay site. Maybe if we send them through console hell few times they will pull out their CC.
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fredicus

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#2

02-17-2001, 10:46 AM

There's much one could say about tgp owners,
however the tgp owners that don't allow pop-ups, yet pop them on the submit pages ...

Ya gotta wonder.

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wolfshade

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#3

02-17-2001, 10:48 AM

Yeah well they need to fill those pages too

A form alone looks so shabby

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Techie Media

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#4

02-17-2001, 11:11 AM

Rose, you have a VERY good point... Now i'm not into making every gallery into a pop up hell, but some of the new rules a few so called Big Tgp's are implementing, will only hurt the whole business...

sales [AT] techiemedia.com
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Rose

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#5

02-17-2001, 11:36 AM

I can name few TGP's that pop up consoles.
But if you do the same they call you cheater.
Sometimes they ban some free hosts for blind links.Maybe they should pay their bandwith bill.And it's getting more ridiculous.Like
telling you which sponsors you can use.

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Rose

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#6

02-17-2001, 12:24 PM

WOW.
I just checked one really big TGP.
And he has bestiality banners all over site.
This one banned me about 2 years ago for blind link...Makes you wonder

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NightLizard

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#7

02-17-2001, 12:33 PM

A lot of the rules are common sense, I mean why would you want to pop up the shit out of a surfer, just build a page that will get them to a good sponsor and they will sign up, I know that the clickthrough rates and sign up rates are declining, but partnering with a premier sponsor helps a lot. I mean consider if you would join the site yourself and only sign up with ones you would pay for. Just my 3 cents

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Rose

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#8

02-17-2001, 12:39 PM

I would never sign up with any site.Why?
There is more free content on net
than any paysite can have.
About consoles,I dont use them anywhere but my CJ site(and yes it's console hell). But my CJ site has better sign up ratio than my TGP.

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Warphead

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#9

02-17-2001, 06:22 PM

True, you gotta hate the guys that can't follow their own rules.

But you've gotta give us a break, there's lots of competition to get a surfer to bookmark - if my galleries aren't high-quality, I'm history.

Also, one of the reasons TGP's have to have rules is there are so many posters out there. I get 200 submissions a day and I only list 60, I've got to elimate 140 somehow.

Besides, popups and tricks are a good way to make some quick cash, but it's not building a business. My sponsers pay me for sending them surfers that will buy, the sponser makes $, I make $ - everybody prospers.

It's like a porn chamber o' commerce!
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#10

02-17-2001, 06:27 PM

We don't like consoles because any surfer with half a brain shut down his browser the second a pop-up flashes in his face. They're annoying as hell. If you don't believe treating surfers well pays off, then check out The Hun. He has more rules than any one else and his traffic converts like a mother fucker.

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kemp

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#11

02-17-2001, 06:38 PM

Fuck the surfers. They have got it way too easy when it comes to finding free porn. If you agree with me submit to my TGP below..heh...hate to plug myself so blatantly =)

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awolf

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#12

02-17-2001, 07:06 PM

I'll agree that some of the rules are common sense but when my submission is rejected because of "excessively used template", things have gone to far. I don't use site templates. My site is set up the way it is because that is how it turned out after fallowing the rules of the sites that would link to mine.
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Rose

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#13

02-17-2001, 10:34 PM

I agree you must have rules.I am saying some rules are stupid,like you must use only these
sponsors or we will not list you.
And consoles make money.Some surfers will close them,but some will not.I have lots of consoles on my CJ site.I use only per sign up
sponsors there.I am getting 4 or 5 signups
a day at $40 a piece.And it's mostly maintenance free.No need to make galleries
and submiting them.Plus this traffic dont dry out.

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Mikey

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#14

02-17-2001, 11:50 PM

I agree Rose, alot of TGP have bullshit rules. One of my favorite bullshit rules I saw was one TGP had a rule that no free servers were allowed, "like porncity.net", and this guy was using a porncity.net submit form for his freaking TGP. What a hypocrite.

I don't mind general rules, such as 12 pic min., no popups and maybe one or two other generally accepted rules.

What really bothers me is when a TGP has specific rules that are not on other TGPs, like "No AP sponsor pics" or some other bullshit and the TGP owner says he will blacklist you if you don't follow his rules and that he shares his blacklist with other webmasters, etc. Well if he blacklists me for breaking one of his rules,a rule that is specific to his TGP and not anyother, is it fair to me if he tells the other TGPs that I am blacklisted, even though the reason I am blacklisted is not even an issue with another TGP?
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Bake

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#15

02-18-2001, 12:18 AM

I think the TGP's have to suck up a bit to the surfer to get the big traffic witch they feel must earns them momney so I can understand a bit but in the long run those TGP that ask for bullshit rules are crap and not worth the trouble,I have no promblem with your site must look clean and stuff and look great. Thats ok but I have read some stupid rules that suck and its very easy to bag these sites but it dosent fix any thing . I get A listed on some of the tuffest sites and I make good money but I dont do anything I think is silly like this sponsor and shit.
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hottshot

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#16

02-18-2001, 01:03 AM

I got sick of the games they play too so I added my own TGP no rules except for the ovious no kiddy porn and no animals if you want to link to me go ahead if you don't then don't http://www.nubianvixen.com/addnew.htm

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The Hun

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#17

02-18-2001, 11:25 PM

Rose, if you don't want to play the TGP game then don't wonder why their rules are not what you are looking for. Plus sending people through console hell is NOT the way to let them grab their CC, it is the reason this whole damn industry has got such a bad name. What happened to respect for the customer? Would you go to a store where they start nagging you all day and won't let you out 'till you buy something? I'm pretty sure you won't. The store would be put out of business in no time. I can't stand people that try to annoy people out of a couple of dollars. You'll train people the adult Internet Industry is one of tricks, consoles, redirects and in many cases, browser crashing. Nobody has a problem grabbing their credit-card in a grosery store. Everybody that pays for a paysite wonders if he'll get value for his money. Ever wondered why?
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The Hun

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#18

02-18-2001, 11:29 PM

I do agree on TGP's that disallow consoles yet put 'em up themselves. Or the ones that demand a reciprocal or even their sponsor's banner on 'em. That IS ridiculous. On the other hand when it works for them then so be it. Obviously they do very well from it. I always have had the idea that my site would be empty without galleries. So I get my traffic through the people that build the content for my site. I send them traffic in return and when things are played right that traffic converts into money. Equal trade if you ask me.

I know some others play it differently. Good for them. I don't have a problem with it. But sometimes it does seem that people forget the whole concept about things.
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wolfshade

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#19

02-18-2001, 11:48 PM

I think that when a TGP requires you to use a sponsor of their choice the TGP is desperate for $$$

Liek Sublime it seems they can't make decent $$$ from their shitload of traffic so they require you to use their sponsors.

My advice: Don't use em there are so many great TGP's out there with very flexible rules that can send you a large chunk of traffic!

I should know I submit to 80 a day and they al list me, even if I decide to put a CJ site behind it

Wolfshade

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jill

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#20

02-19-2001, 12:05 AM

Many good points here...

Personally, I don't believe in consoles because they are annoying as hell. Ask yourself how the surfer is gonna sign up with your sponsor when his browser crashes from the "console hell" you've created?

We all (well, most of us, anyway) live in a free market economy... which means a TGP owner can refuse to post your gallery for any reason. Most of the rules you've all mentioned make sense. If you don't like them, post to a different TGP and respect the owner's right to choose.

I admit some TGPs have some pretty strict rules... for instance, when a TGP "requires" you to use its sponsor. But if you don't like it, don't post there! How would you like it if someone came into your house and told you what color to paint the walls?

Anyway, that's my two cents' worth. I guess I'm just a libertarian at heart...

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Mikey

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#21

02-19-2001, 12:43 AM

There are plenty of TGPs out there. If you don't like the rules, don't submit to them, submit elsewhere.
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rhizome

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#22

02-19-2001, 01:46 AM

What converts best? A full page ad? Well, all a gallery is when made right is a a full page ad. Also, screw the rules. If your gallery is unique and offers more value than the standard gallery, you don't need to play by the rules.
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Rose

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#23

02-19-2001, 06:17 AM

Hun.
I didnt say I put consoles on galleries.
And NO I dont play TGP games.I have few TGP's where I post my galleries without
any BS.
I use consoles only on my CJ site,and yes people pull their CC.
How I treat costumer? What costumer? 99% of surfers are just free loaders and I dont
owe them nothing.There is that word:FREE!!
Free comes with price,if they dont like
all the BS that comes with free,they must pull their credit card.That's the point.
Not to make sure that those freeloaders
have 1 000's of fresh new pictures everyday
served to them.
I run business in real the world also.And I
couldnt afford to give my costumers too much for free, cause they wouldnt buy from me.
Would you go to Mc'Donalds to buy burger
if Burger King accros the street is giving
them for free? I dont think so.

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XM

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#24

02-19-2001, 06:47 AM

Rose,
the basic thing I think is to offer the surfer something else he cant have on TGP, like movies, live shows, feeds etc.
So its unimportant how much free pics can TGP surfer find, because he already knows he can have them for free, so he has to pull the credit card for something else.

XM
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Rose

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#25

02-19-2001, 06:50 AM

XM
Ja sy myslim ze TGP, zvlast ty velke
jenom vyziraj tvuj Bandwith.
Pozdrav na Slovensko

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Warphead

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#26

02-19-2001, 12:43 PM

I don't think your comparison is completely accurate. I get a lot of great submissions at AdultCore, but I'm sure the amount and quality of porn I provide doesn't compare with a good paysite. It's more like McDonalds is selling burgers on one side of the street and I'm giving fries away for free. Sure there are some guys that will just eat 2 orders of fries and go home happy, but alot of people will grab my free fries and head over to get a burger and Coke to go with it.

And the important thing that TGP's do is allow the little guys putting up a paysite to get their piece of the pie. I mean anyone can promote their sites for free on hundreds of high-traffic sites and all they have to do is submit.
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rhizome

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#27

02-19-2001, 01:23 PM

That's a not a bad analogy with the fries. People will factor in the free stuff when it comes to buying things. So when they walk accross the street to buy a burger and pop for $3, they probably think to themselves that they are getting a good deal because in total they are getting a burger, pop, and fries for $3. If there was no free porn, the surfers could end up forking over $200/month just to see the porn they are interested in by joining 6 or 7 paysites that would cover this range. A lot of people can't afford that much money a month just for porn. In fact, they probably won't join anything because in order to get a good degree of satisfaction, they would have to pay $200 - so basically it's $200 or nothing. But if they can get a lot of their favorite stuff for free, they might not mind forking over $30/month for something they really enjoy as they know they can find a bunch of other stuff they enjoy for free so they will always be satisfied.

Also, a lot of people don't know what the like. If there was no free stuff, they wouldn't be able to sample anything. A gallery or a small free site gives them a little more extensive sample than a tour does. And sometimes, it may take quite a few sample galleries or sites for someone to really get to like a certain niche. I think the more available free porn is, the better it is for paysites so long as the free porn is given out in moderation.
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Interlude

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#28

02-19-2001, 05:15 PM

TGP's, link lists and the like have rules not because they're concerned with you making money, but because your sites are in effect their content. If their (your) content is good, the surfer bookmarks their TGP and comes back daily. You don't think the Hun is getting 1 million hits a day from links do you? It's bookmarked traffic. The second the surfer starts getting console hell from TGP links, he stops visiting the TGP every day.

The key is to get away from the "if you like this then you'll love paying $29.95 a month for more of the same shit" kind of advertising that too many people rely on. Try to promote the sponsor as a source for stuff that the surfer will NEVER get for free, and he'll be a lot more willing to pay for it.

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Rose

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#29

02-19-2001, 07:53 PM

"TGP's, link lists and the like have rules not because they're concerned with you making money, but because your sites are in effect their content. "
Exactly, but you must remember you are giving them content,they dont pay for it
and if you use paid hosting they dont pay the bill.I understand There are rules,all I was saying some of those rules are just plain stupid,like telling you which sponsors
you can use etc...They have no right which sponsor you can use in my opinion.You are using sponsor which makes you money.

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Dyanna

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#30

02-19-2001, 10:40 PM

It's called business. TGP's have the RIGHT to tell you whatever the hell they want to tell you. If they want they can say that you can only submit galleries with 17 pictures of blonde mud wrestling.

And you have the right not to submit to any TGP you don't agree with
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The Hun

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#31

02-20-2001, 12:34 AM

Rose... there we go again, this analog has been discussed nearly every year since I started 8 years ago. I was in Sawgrass Mall in Florida once. We got hungry and went to the food court. Nearly every stand there gave us a free sample. We went for the one that had the best tasting sample. If you just want one or two bites you can do that walk of samples and you're done. If you want a full mean you taste and buy at the one you like best.

Thinking people will pay 'cause they don't know where to find it for free is not smart, it's naive. People will pay, but as soon as they find something else they'll charge back. That's the kind of audience you'll create with CJ. I have 1,000,000 uniques every day. And 70,000 banner clicks (and I don't allow full-page or blind banners). That's 1:14. How is that freeloader traffic?! People are willing to pay if the product offered is what they're looking for. That's the way EVERY store works. And that's the way to treat people with respect and making money at the same time.
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Robert

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#32

02-20-2001, 05:33 AM

Dyanna is 100% right!

btw - all of you who hate TGP for their consloe rules, try to run your own TGP.
And then, when you will have to check 200+ console hells daily, send us your comment

[This message has been edited by Robert (edited 02-20-2001).]

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XM

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#33

02-20-2001, 06:11 AM

Rose,
thanks for message in native language - vsetkych budem pozdravovat
Yes, TGPs are big bandwidth eaters but You have to live with them if you want to make money with them...
If you dont like their traffic, go for SE and AVS stuff or more specific niche - Its quite clear that you will get lots of teen traffic but very low sign-ups, but on the other hand people looking for something special (pissing? foot-fetish? pregnant?) will have to pull their credit card more often.

My opinion as for TGPs is also not too positive. I am pretty sure without free hosts and stolen content there wouldn't be more than 20% of galleries online and TGPs too. That would of course mean more sign-ups for us...

XM
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Susan

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#34

02-20-2001, 06:13 AM

People are fed up with the spagetti world of porn and it's automated popping bullshit. Most of the free pics are poor quality junk used over and over again.

The more rules the better !
Rules = organised promotion and keep out the idiots.

Rose, its clear you don't know the business and what's available inside top quality porn sites. What's wrong, can't you find the majic formula. The golden rule in this business is to have faith in your product.

Two people here have given you the answer - start your own and see how it goes - maybe then you will realise just how many low life cheating idiots are trying to get rich from this business.

Thankfully the major browsers are making plans to include smart code filtering - sooner the better.

My $20 worth - I don't work cheap

Stupid Spice
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Robert

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#35

02-20-2001, 06:28 AM

XM,
I thinnk it was in Czech, not Slovak. Because you have "tvoj" while we have "tvuj" Am I right?
anyway - Rose cos mel(a) z cestiny, kdyz napises sy s tvrdym y a ne s mekkym i
Jinak zdravim Slovensko a Cechy v Kanade.

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Rose

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#36

02-20-2001, 07:47 AM

Hun.
First I was not reffering to you TGP ,your
rules are not bad.It's your site and your opinion.You run it your way.
Susan
I dont know you. No I dont do TGP's anymore.
I'll take 100 SE hits over 10 000 TGP hits anytime.If TGP traffic is so good,why some click through sponsors dont allow that traffic.

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Rose

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#37

02-20-2001, 07:49 AM

Robert sorry about spelling.I am not
that good in czech language anymore.

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aprilkorova

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#38

02-20-2001, 09:46 AM

After paying for my own content, massive bandwidth bills and spending hours a day submitting I agree TGP's seem like a losing battle sometimes. And then to top it all off you have to adhere to a ton of rules that differ from TGP to TGP. Why do I do it? I consider it a learning experience. If you can convert TGP traffic...you can convert any traffic!
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wolfshade

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#39

02-20-2001, 12:40 PM

I don'y have many rules
just no Barry Manilow

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wiZd0m

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#40

02-20-2001, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by Rose:
There is that word: FREE!!
Free comes with price, if they dont like
all the BS that comes with free, they must pull their credit card. That's the point.

Rose, I say this amically to you.

Your WebServer Apache http://www.apache.org
And it's operating system Linux http://www.kernel.org are both FREE as in speech and beer. Neither you nor your hosting facilities NCAW http://www.ncaw.com/ paid a dime for it.

Where is the BS you or they go through to use their FREE solutions?

FREE != SHIT*

Thank you.

*( != means not equal to)

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wiZd0m

[This message has been edited by wiZd0m (edited 02-20-2001).]

[This message has been edited by wiZd0m (edited 02-20-2001).]

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JT

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#41

02-20-2001, 03:51 PM

There is a lot of great info in this thread.

I lean toward the opinion of give the surfer
a few great samples of what they are looking
for and they will buy. I don't use consoles
and I don't use blind links. It has work for me.

JT

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Rip

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#42

02-20-2001, 04:13 PM

Hey I was just making a Barry Manilow gallery, what the hell is the matter with that?

...
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Rose

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#43

02-20-2001, 08:02 PM

wiZd0m
Good one
I dont know where this turned,All I said
some of the TGP's have rules which are....
whatever(you have to use our sponsor or
we will blacklist your ass - this is original
copy and paste from one,or you have to put our button on top of your page(which was about 15kb,and they propably still will not list you).
As Susan said I have no idea what
the pay site looks like
Every time before
I join any partnership program,I always buy
membership just to see.And let me tell you ,about 50 % of pay sites are crap.Where I dont blame surfer they cancel trial membership within 10 minutes.
Two best sites I have seen is AP and Helmys
Orgy Party.
And that TGP traffic is crap is still my opinion.Yes it's all about the tease.But how much tease is enough?
1 000, 2 000 or 10 000 hardcore images?
You can build gallery with 20 pics and submit it to every TGP,yes you get big traffic for few days before it dies(and hopefully you made enough to pay for your bandwith),or you can build nice site with 30
pics submit it to Persian Kitty,Green guy,Ynot,Dmoz.org,SE's and other places and get steady high quality hits.,which will not die in 2 or 3 days

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<a href="http://www.fpctraffic.com/webm.cgi?pppp">MAKE 4 Cents per BLIND CLICK or 2.5 Cents per RAW</a>
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Interlude

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Join Date: Feb 2001

Posts: 1147
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#44

02-20-2001, 09:36 PM

Sure, alot of paysites are crap. Alot of any kind of site are crap, including ones financed by $50 million in venture capital. That's the beauty of capitalism... you can get away with virtually anything as long as it makes you money.

However, if you want a sponsor that's going to retain members, don't sign up for shitty sponsorship programs, simple as that. You have as much right to send your traffic elsewhere as they do pawning a shitty product.

As far as TGPs go... it's a science to convert that sort of traffic. You have to first and foremost (as Hun suggested) promote something that is out of the ordinary, something that they want but can't easily get... something unique. Whether it be the content itself or the quantity of it, people WILL pay for porn if they know (not think, KNOW) they can't get it for free anywhere else. Part of the problem is that too many people are promoting the same tired sponsors that anyone who has been around the block has seen promoted 5000 times.

But don't blame the TGP's for their rules, it's how they choose to run their business... and they have the right to do that. When you can start sending massive traffic to sites with a less than 1% recip rate, you too can do whatever the fuck you want to do.

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NightLizard

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Posts: 300
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#45

02-20-2001, 09:42 PM

I agree with most of you, as I've always maintained it's a balancing act between giving them enough and giving them too much. You have to cater to them to a certain extent while making sure you are profitable doing so. Respect to all.

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[email protected] Nightlizard, peace out

[email protected] Nightlizard, peace out
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