Iraq Soldier: 'I killed innocent people for our government'

[Rich]

Atrocities in Iraq: I killed innocent people for our government

http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinio...10241546c.html

For nearly 12 years, Staff Sgt. Jimmy Massey was a hard-core, some say gung-ho, Marine. For three years he trained fellow Marines in one of the most grueling indoctrination rituals in military life - Marine boot camp.

The Iraq war changed Massey. The brutality, the sheer carnage of the U.S. invasion, touched his conscience and transformed him forever. He was honorably discharged with full severance last Dec. 31 and is now back in his hometown, Waynsville, N.C.

When I talked with Massey last week, he expressed his remorse at the civilian loss of life in incidents in which he himself was involved.


Q: You spent 12 years in the Marines. When were you sent to Iraq?


A: I went to Kuwait around Jan. 17. I was in Iraq from the get-go. And I was involved in the initial invasion.


Q: What does the public need to know about your experiences as a Marine?


A: The cause of the Iraqi revolt against the American occupation. What they need to know is we killed a lot of innocent people. I think at first the Iraqis had the understanding that casualties are a part of war. But over the course of time, the occupation hurt the Iraqis. And I didn't see any humanitarian support.


Q: What experiences turned you against the war and made you leave the Marines?


A: I was in charge of a platoon that consists of machine gunners and missile men. Our job was to go into certain areas of the towns and secure the roadways. There was this one particular incident - and there's many more - the one that really pushed me over the edge. It involved a car with Iraqi civilians. From all the intelligence reports we were getting, the cars were loaded down with suicide bombs or material. That's the rhetoric we received from intelligence. They came upon our checkpoint. We fired some warning shots. They didn't slow down. So we lit them up.


Q: Lit up? You mean you fired machine guns?


A: Right. Every car that we lit up we were expecting ammunition to go off. But we never heard any. Well, this particular vehicle we didn't destroy completely, and one gentleman looked up at me and said: "Why did you kill my brother? We didn't do anything wrong." That hit me like a ton of bricks.


Q: He spoke English?


A: Oh, yeah.


Q: Baghdad was being bombed. The civilians were trying to get out, right?


A: Yes. They received pamphlets, propaganda we dropped on them. It said, "Just throw up your hands, lay down weapons." That's what they were doing, but we were still lighting them up. They weren't in uniform. We never found any weapons.


Q: You got to see the bodies and casualties?


A: Yeah, firsthand. I helped throw them in a ditch.


Q: Over what period did all this take place?


A: During the invasion of Baghdad.





'We lit him up pretty good'

Q: How many times were you involved in checkpoint "light-ups"?


A: Five times. There was [the city of] Rekha. The gentleman was driving a stolen work utility van. He didn't stop. With us being trigger happy, we didn't really give this guy much of a chance. We lit him up pretty good. Then we inspected the back of the van. We found nothing. No explosives.


Q: The reports said the cars were loaded with explosives. In all the incidents did you find that to be the case?


A: Never. Not once. There were no secondary explosions. As a matter of fact, we lit up a rally after we heard a stray gunshot.


Q: A demonstration? Where?


A: On the outskirts of Baghdad. Near a military compound. There were demonstrators at the end of the street. They were young and they had no weapons. And when we rolled onto the scene, there was already a tank that was parked on the side of the road. If the Iraqis wanted to do something, they could have blown up the tank. But they didn't. They were only holding a demonstration. Down at the end of the road, we saw some RPGs (rocket-propelled grenades) lined up against the wall. That put us at ease because we thought: "Wow, if they were going to blow us up, they would have done it."


Q: Were the protest signs in English or Arabic?


A: Both.


Q: Who gave the order to wipe the demonstrators out?


A: Higher command. We were told to be on the lookout for the civilians because a lot of the Fedayeen and the Republican Guards had tossed away uniforms and put on civilian clothes and were mounting terrorist attacks on American soldiers. The intelligence reports that were given to us were basically known by every member of the chain of command. The rank structure that was implemented in Iraq by the chain of command was evident to every Marine in Iraq. The order to shoot the demonstrators, I believe, came from senior government officials, including intelligence communities within the military and the U.S. government.


Q: What kind of firepower was employed?


A: M-16s, 50-cal. machine guns.


Q: You fired into six or ten kids? Were they all taken out?


A: Oh, yeah. Well, I had a "mercy" on one guy. When we rolled up, he was hiding behind a concrete pillar. I saw him and raised my weapon up, and he put up his hands. He ran off. I told everybody, "Don't shoot." Half of his foot was trailing behind him. So he was running with half of his foot cut off.

This just keeps getting worse and worse.

[69pornlinks]

did they force him to go to iraq?

[Rich]

Originally posted by 69pornlinks
did they force him to go to iraq?

No, they forced him to kill innocent women and children.

[69pornlinks]

Originally posted by Rich
No, they forced him to kill innocent women and children.

no, i meant as a solider you know you're just a lowly paid peon that does what the government tells you, he knew what he was when he signed up, no need to be all remorseful now....didn't he know anything bout the past 'wars'

war really fucks you up

I hope I never live it

[Webby]

If any of the above is an actual statement (written and signed freely) - from Massey, he has just signed himself up to a long term of imprisonment. If the US does not jail him, others will when the dust settles. Tho.. I can't see why anyone would be so stupid to make such statements to anyone - especially since there are ongoing current issues.

This attitude is not uncommon with military trained people - McVey was another leftover from a military career, - hell knows what his motivation was when he decided to blow people up. But the terminology was the usual military shit - ie.. "collateral damage" blah. Some need their ass filled with something and exploded to see if they know the meaning of "collateral damage".

[detoxed]

Iraq suicide bombers could say the same thing if they werent dead

[Rich]

Originally posted by 69pornlinks
no, i meant as a solider you know you're just a lowly paid peon that does what the government tells you, he knew what he was when he signed up, no need to be all remorseful now....didn't he know anything bout the past 'wars'

What the fuck is wrong with you?

The US army is not supposed to indiscriminately kill innocent women and children. I don't care if you condone it, apparently you're fucking nuts, but most people don't think this is good and it's against the law. This is the 3rd soldier I've heard tell a similar story. Whether you're able to understand or not, this is fucked up. If you don't get it just stop posting, I'm not going to explain to you the problem with habitually gunning down unarmed civilians.

[Rich]

Originally posted by detoxed
Iraq suicide bombers could say the same thing if they werent dead

Iraq has suicide bombers now?

[xenophobic]

Perhaps in thirty years this guy will also run for President! he could also use the "I did not commit atrocities" speech, much like kerry he came home from a war - and joined a veterans for peace campaign!

[Webby]

Rich:

The US army is not supposed to indiscriminately kill innocent women and children. I don't care if you condone it, apparently you're fucking nuts, but most people don't think this is good and it's against the law. This is the 3rd soldier I've heard tell a similar story. Whether you're able to understand or not, this is fucked up. If you don't get it just stop posting, I'm not going to explain to you the problem with habitually gunning down unarmed civilians.

Dunno Rich... but I have this feeling that we have not even began to see any transparency over Iraq and Afghanistan. There are now so many orgs with enquiries going on into "incidents" and I've seen a massive load of photos taken in both Afghanistan and Iraq - many are OK, but the amount of damming images is beyond what anyone would expect in a war - ie .. clear war crimes in anyone's language. These pics have not been released yet, but I'm sure the guy I know who shot them, ain't the only war photographer out there. It's the kinda shit CNN or the Pentagon don't want to know about.

Time will tell.. but I can see war crimes trials, not only for the Hussein regime, but for the crimes committed by US forces. I reckon these trials will happen whether the US is a participant in the International Criminal Court or not - and these people will have international arrest warrants and be grabbed by other countries and sent for trial at the Hague if the US does not act.

[Nanda]

Originally posted by 69pornlinks
did they force him to go to iraq?

Exactly...

[detoxed]

Originally posted by Rich
Iraq has suicide bombers now?

Here's one suicide bomber


"Iraqi officials said nine people, including the bomber, were killed and 14 Iraqis and an Egyptian were wounded in Monday's attack. Kimmitt put the death toll at seven. Two U.S. soldiers were slightly wounded. "

[Rich]

Originally posted by xenophobic
Perhaps in thirty years this guy will also run for President! he could also use the "I did not commit atrocities" speech, much like kerry he came home from a war - and joined a veterans for peace campaign!

Are you 15 years old or what? Politics isn't a game, especially not these days. Do you have a point at all or are you just trying to get your post count up?

[Rich]

Originally posted by detoxed
Here's one suicide bomber


"Iraqi officials said nine people, including the bomber, were killed and 14 Iraqis and an Egyptian were wounded in Monday's attack. Kimmitt put the death toll at seven. Two U.S. soldiers were slightly wounded. "

I know, I thought you kind of made it sound like Iraq suicide bombers were a regular thing. There was no such thing as an Iraq suicide bomber before Bush invaded.

[xenophobic]

Originally posted by Rich
Are you 15 years old or what? Politics isn't a game, especially not these days. Do you have a point at all or are you just trying to get your post count up?

yeah like you don't have an agenda.

[detoxed]

Originally posted by Rich
I know, I thought you kind of made it sound like Iraq suicide bombers were a regular thing. There was no such thing as an Iraq suicide bomber before Bush invaded.

I wasnt defending him, just commenting

[Webby]

detoxes:

"Iraqi officials said nine people, including the bomber, were killed and 14 Iraqis and an Egyptian were wounded in Monday's attack. Kimmitt put the death toll at seven. Two U.S. soldiers were slightly wounded. "

Who knows why or the motivation for suicide bombings. There is obviously an element of "fanaticism" around, but I doubt that is common.

If you have a look at the background of "suicide bombers" in the Middle East - they were often not stupid people with a baggage of dogma. Hell.. who knows why!! :-)

One other thread is that their action is as "a last resort" (literally!) to "relaliate" from abuse over a long number of years.

Frankly... if a load of people "knowingly" killed off my family - you can rest assured I'd have every damned one of them in a gunsight till each was stone cold dead.

[Rochard]

Listen up and learn something here.

In a fucking warzone when a country is invaded, and a car pulls up to a military check point and then flees.... Yes, they will be lit up.

This is not main street USA, it's a war zone. And in a country where their military takes off their uniforms and attempts to blend in with the civilians..... Yes, this happens. It's a war zone.

It's simple. A car pulls up to me while I'm carrying my M16. It fails to stop or what not. At this point it's highly likely that this car is going to blow up and kill me. At the exact moment I'd lit it up too.
It's either me or them.

[Rich]

Originally posted by xenophobic
yeah like you don't have an agenda.

I was right, you are a fool. I'm talking about kids and women being killed, you're not even making any fucking sense. Wake up, everything's not about you being right all the time.

Underage poster #533 to go on my ignore list. Can't we get an AVS on this board or something?

[xenophobic]

Originally posted by Rich
I was right, you are a fool. I'm talking about kids and women being killed, you're not even making any fucking sense. Wake up, everything's not about you being right all the time.

Underage poster #533 to go on my ignore list. Can't we get an AVS on this board or something?

Just about every post you make is about anti-war, anti-american, I can predict the topic before I even read the title, Yawn.

please don't put me on your ignore list I REALLY care what you think.

[Rich]

Originally posted by RocHard
Listen up and learn something here.

In a fucking warzone when a country is invaded, and a car pulls up to a military check point and then flees.... Yes, they will be lit up.

This is not main street USA, it's a war zone. And in a country where their military takes off their uniforms and attempts to blend in with the civilians..... Yes, this happens. It's a war zone.

It's simple. A car pulls up to me while I'm carrying my M16. It fails to stop or what not. At this point it's highly likely that this car is going to blow up and kill me. At the exact moment I'd lit it up too.
It's either me or them.

I love people who know what they're going to say to agrue something, before they even read it... and then say stuff like "listen up and learn something".

A: Never. Not once. There were no secondary explosions. As a matter of fact, we lit up a rally after we heard a stray gunshot.


Q: A demonstration? Where?


A: On the outskirts of Baghdad. Near a military compound. There were demonstrators at the end of the street. They were young and they had no weapons. And when we rolled onto the scene, there was already a tank that was parked on the side of the road. If the Iraqis wanted to do something, they could have blown up the tank. But they didn't. They were only holding a demonstration. Down at the end of the road, we saw some RPGs (rocket-propelled grenades) lined up against the wall. That put us at ease because we thought: "Wow, if they were going to blow us up, they would have done it."

These are soldiers killing innocent people without cause. Just because you can justify that in your head doesn't make it right, in fact, probably 95% of the people in the civilized world would disagree with you. Going into an unarmed country and killing kids and women, yeah you guys have a hell of a group in charge of defense over there. How's the hunt for Osama going?

[Rich]

Originally posted by xenophobic
Just about every post you make is about anti-war, anti-american, I can predict the topic before I even read the title, Yawn.

please don't put me on your ignore list I REALLY care what you think.

Show me one thing I've ever said "anti American". You're too fucking stupid to understand the difference between someone who realizes that this war is bullshit and hating a country I've had a home in for 6 years. Bush is anti American, he's fucked up your country worse than anyone could have ever imagined. When you grow up you'll understand.

[extreme]

Originally posted by Webby
If any of the above is an actual statement (written and signed freely) - from Massey, he has just signed himself up to a long term of imprisonment. If the US does not jail him, others will when the dust settles. Tho.. I can't see why anyone would be so stupid to make such statements to anyone - especially since there are ongoing current issues.

This attitude is not uncommon with military trained people - McVey was another leftover from a military career, - hell knows what his motivation was when he decided to blow people up. But the terminology was the usual military shit - ie.. "collateral damage" blah. Some need their ass filled with something and exploded to see if they know the meaning of "collateral damage".

Perhaps he thinks whatever jail time he'll serve is worth it.
Sounds like he wouldn't mind as long as he gets some intelligence officers as cell mates.

[Rich]

It's funny to see people so brainwashed with fear that they think we should throw the Geneva convention and other international law out the window.

Sure, kill citizens, torture soldiers, all in the name of freedom right? What a joke. We defeated the Nazi's, people 10x more evil than Bin Laden could ever dream of. They experimented on and tortured people routinely, not to mention the whole genocide thing. What did we do? We were able to handle tens of thousands of POWs, while abiding a certain standard that's supposed to set the western world apart. Bush has thrown all that out the window. He can't beat that terrorists without committing horrendous war crimes? If that's the case, then he should get the fuck out of office and let someone competent run the show. THANK GOD we only have about 8 more months of this fascist.

[Mr. Marks]

[TheSwed]

unarmed country?

[Illicit]

Sad story, but it could be worse, we could have lost a ton of US Soldiers instead.

[dirtyone]

Originally posted by Rich
It's funny to see people so brainwashed with fear that they think we should throw the Geneva convention and other international law out the window.

Sure, kill citizens, torture soldiers, all in the name of freedom right? What a joke. We defeated the Nazi's, people 10x more evil than Bin Laden could ever dream of. They experimented on and tortured people routinely, not to mention the whole genocide thing. What did we do? We were able to handle tens of thousands of POWs, while abiding a certain standard that's supposed to set the western world apart. Bush has thrown all that out the window. He can't beat that terrorists without committing horrendous war crimes? If that's the case, then he should get the fuck out of office and let someone competent run the show. THANK GOD we only have about 8 more months of this fascist.

Thats right kill them all and let god sort them out. It's pretty obvious that anyone with an opionin that is not yours is stupid, ignorant, or brainwashed so what's the point in even trying to have a discussion with you?

Every post you make turnes into an argument with you insulting anyone that disagrees with you. Why don't you take your own advice and grow up.

I don't think that anyone would disagree that the killing of innocent people is a tradgady but show me where the Natzies dressed as civilians and blew themsleves up for thier cause.

This is a different war than the world has ever seen and thus the rules have changed. When a soldier points a 50-cal machin gun at your car and tells you to stop you do. If you don't you get "lit up" It's simple. There are people blowing things up over there everyday. The intelligence is right.

[JDog]

Originally posted by Rich
I love people who know what they're going to say to agrue something, before they even read it... and then say stuff like "listen up and learn something".



These are soldiers killing innocent people without cause. Just because you can justify that in your head doesn't make it right, in fact, probably 95% of the people in the civilized world would disagree with you. Going into an unarmed country and killing kids and women, yeah you guys have a hell of a group in charge of defense over there. How's the hunt for Osama going?

I'm against this war. Very against it, but if it was me over there and a car drove pas the check point, they are gonna get it from me. Their stupid enoguh to drive through the checkpoint, making the soldier think that there is something that shouldn't be in the car.

Now the demostration, that's a different story. Because he mentioned a stray shot, in the question prior to it, then didn't mentino the shot again, in the next question. But they sound like the same incident.

Now if there was a stray shot, you don't know who has the weapon, and all you know is there's a shot & a shit load of RPG's sitting against the wall a way's back. Now like it was said before, I'd want to get home safely, so it's me or them! And I wouldn't take any chances. But that is how war is! Sad but true.

jDoG

[Rich]

Originally posted by ajpiii
Sad story, but it could be worse, we could have lost a ton of US Soldiers instead.

What's a ton? How many is acceptable to fight a war based on lies?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...fthefallen.htm

784 so far including 4 people I know, not to mention as many as 33,000 Iraqi's. I hope Rumsfeld has fun hitting his "good targets".

[Rich]

Originally posted by dirtyone
Thats right kill them all and let god sort them out. It's pretty obvious that anyone with an opionin that is not yours is stupid, ignorant, or brainwashed so what's the point in even trying to have a discussion with you?

Every post you make turnes into an argument with you insulting anyone that disagrees with you. Why don't you take your own advice and grow up.

I don't think that anyone would disagree that the killing of innocent people is a tradgady but show me where the Natzies dressed as civilians and blew themsleves up for thier cause.

This is a different war than the world has ever seen and thus the rules have changed. When a soldier points a 50-cal machin gun at your car and tells you to stop you do. If you don't you get "lit up" It's simple. There are people blowing things up over there everyday. The intelligence is right.

I understand that you can make excuses for these war crimes all day long, believe me if I worked for Bush or something I could justify anything to myself. Doesn't make it the right thing to do. I know no matter what I say you won't even begin to so much as try to think differently, so there's no point in trying. You're right, let's just kill all brown people... kids first. And get a horse to fuck them in the ass first. Hell, they fight in civilian clothes.

Show me one real argument or defense of Bush or the war EVER made on this board. Myself and others have asked multiple times for even one good point about Bush to debate, but all we get time after time is bullshit about us being wrong and Bush making people safe in some dream world. There isn't one person here who's ever made a valid point in favor of Bush as far as I've seen. Point one out or be the first to make one and I'll gladly not call you an idiot.

However, if you don't like the fact that I insult people who make stupid comments based on rhetoric and ass backwards assumptions, that's your problem, go fuck yourself. Put me on ignore because as long as someone's ignorant and trying to push their opinion on someone else when it's completely incorrect, I'm going to point it out. Facts do the talking, show me one thing I've said that's not true or show me one thing I've disagreed with that is true, regarding this war or the Bush admin. When right wingers are proved wrong it's all of a sudden "different opinions"... but before they're proved wrong if you question them you're a moron, or a traitor, or anti american, or a terrorist appeaser.

[Webby]

If it was not so sad, it would be just too funny.

For a couple of years now I've looked at posts on GFY and it is clear to see a minority of folks are just mentally retarded and others have a disease I never noticed before.

This disease makes them utter such utter crap and usually angled towards some "defense" of something that, using all common-sense, is indefensible :-)

The old US cliche of "American haters" usually pops up. In real life, stand back and look at this "attitude - it actually comes from the suffers of this disease. Have you ever heard anyone from Iceland or Mexico talk about "Icelandic haters" blah?? Na.. it's spewed out as a "defense" by very insecure (possibly retarded people).

The disease is called "patriotism" - something others have described as:

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
Oscar Wilde

It's the disease that is similar to the dogma of communism and a load of other bullshit regimes over centuries.

[newsdude]

Death and war is such an awful topic.

[Webby]

On cars driving thru checkpoints etc.

First.. Iraq is not Broadway, New York. It is a very common practice to ignore any police stops in Iraq and just drive thru them. There is no respect for police and even less respect for any US forces. Why the fuck should anyone bother??

There is now a growing respect for Iraqi police officers - sounds like the population know they may need them now :-)

As for US forces - they should never ever been anyplace near Iraq or in the Middle East. The US has done nothing but damage in that region over several decades - it's little surprise they are not appreciated as a "liberating forces". The sooner they fuck off back to Kentucky or wherever they came from the better.

[Esbee]

Originally posted by Rich
I understand that you can make excuses for these war crimes all day long, believe me if I worked for Bush or something I could justify anything to myself. Doesn't make it the right thing to do. I know no matter what I say you won't even begin to so much as try to think differently, so there's no point in trying. You're right, let's just kill all brown people... kids first. And get a horse to fuck them in the ass first. Hell, they fight in civilian clothes.

Show me one real argument or defense of Bush or the war EVER made on this board. Myself and others have asked multiple times for even one good point about Bush to debate, but all we get time after time is bullshit about us being wrong and Bush making people safe in some dream world. There isn't one person here who's ever made a valid point in favor of Bush as far as I've seen. Point one out or be the first to make one and I'll gladly not call you an idiot.

However, if you don't like the fact that I insult people who make stupid comments based on rhetoric and ass backwards assumptions, that's your problem, go fuck yourself. Put me on ignore because as long as someone's ignorant and trying to push their opinion on someone else when it's completely incorrect, I'm going to point it out. Facts do the talking, show me one thing I've said that's not true or show me one thing I've disagreed with that is true, regarding this war or the Bush admin. When right wingers are proved wrong it's all of a sudden "different opinions"... but before they're proved wrong if you question them you're a moron, or a traitor, or anti american, or a terrorist appeaser.

Here's a fucking clue dude: If someone's truly seeking spirited, logical debate and educating themselves on current events... they ain't headed to an adult webmaster board called "Go Fuck Yourself" to find it.

You can give your opinion and you'll hear others' opinions in return. But that's all you're going to get. So for the love of Christ quit acting mystified when you fail to change any opinions. You lose before you even start because you cannot win... you're playing a different game than everyone else. No one's debating you, just giving their opinion. It's a board catering to porn distribution, a topic that (censorship/obscenity issues aside) doesn't coincide with where one seeks political insight. Why this is so fucking hard for you to recognize is the odd part.

To sum up: Say what you want to say but drop the fucking melodrama already.

[bhutocracy]

Originally posted by ajpiii
Sad story, but it could be worse, we could have lost a ton of US Soldiers instead.

why would that be worse?

unarmed innocent civilians trying to flee a warzone imposed on them vs people who knew what they were doing signing up for a war. Neither is a good thing but the innocent civilian can't help the fact that the war was brought to them.

[stev0]

Originally posted by ajpiii
Sad story, but it could be worse, we could have lost a ton of US Soldiers instead.

So you're saying it's better for innocent families to die, rather than the invading soldiers?

[Corleone]

sad story ...

[benc]

The people that continually run down USA, for being barbaric , war mongers, etc, should be very thankful for USA.

If Americans weren't like that, there would be no America, there would be no free countries, no freedoms whatsoever in the world. People can respond to this comment with their usual witty bullshit, but its the truth.

[JamesK]

They probably paid him to say that

[ControlThy]

Originally posted by benc

If Americans weren't like that, there would be no America, there would be no free countries, no freedoms whatsoever in the world. People can respond to this comment with their usual witty bullshit, but its the truth.

Let me get this right.... you just said that the US invented freedom?

[Rich]

Originally posted by ControlThy
Let me get this right.... you just said that the US invented freedom?

lol.

You didn't know that? Ronald Reagan invented it in '86. Before that all of Europe was run by Saddam Hussein and commies. Come on man, get with the program.

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by ajpiii
Sad story, but it could be worse, we could have lost a ton of US Soldiers instead.

They are worth more by the pound?

[DreamCumTrue]

Originally posted by detoxed
Iraq suicide bombers could say the same thing if they werent dead

ya

[Manowar]

at least he was honest

[smokingdawn]

Originally posted by Rich
I know, I thought you kind of made it sound like Iraq suicide bombers were a regular thing. There was no such thing as an Iraq suicide bomber before Bush invaded.

Oh..and you know this because?

[Rich]

Originally posted by smokingdawn
Oh..and you know this because?

because I actually pay attention

[Repetitive Monkey]

Originally posted by Rich
No, they forced him to kill innocent women and children.

And no men, you feminist piece of worthless shit?

[Rich]

Originally posted by Repetitive Monkey
And no men, you feminist piece of worthless shit?

Ok. Some people see innocent women and children differently. 'Women and children first' for the lifeboats, that kind of thing. Don't know what problem you have with that, but I guess somehow it makes me a feminist?