Scrubbing..... ther surfer's side...

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  • LadyMischief
    Orgasms N Such!
    • Sep 2002
    • 18135
    #1

    Scrubbing..... ther surfer's side...

    I understand the need for scrubbing on the part of the processors.. With tight new Visa regs, it's a tool to ensure chargebacks are kept to a minimum...


    But when a surfer gets scrubbed, isn't he pissed off? If it happens to enough people long enough, will they stop trying to sign up? Are we shooting ourselves in the foot? Creating the next generation of jaded porn consumer?

    I'm not trying to single anyone out, I'm honestly curious as to what people think on this.

    ICQ 3522039
    Content Manager - orgasm.com
    [email protected]
    Tags: None
    • suesheboy
      Confirmed User
      • Nov 2002
      • 5211
      #2
      I agree.

      They are also scared of dialers (for good reason).

      So what will get fucked up next?
      Adult Web Site Domain Names For Sale
      Adult Sex Toy Domain Names For Sale
      Tantric Delights, Sex Toys Blog, Tantric Sex Toys

        Comment

        • ArikaAmes
          Confirmed User
          • Dec 2003
          • 3081
          #3
          Wasn't cascading billing created to solve this problem?

            Comment

            • LadyMischief
              Orgasms N Such!
              • Sep 2002
              • 18135
              #4
              Originally posted by ArikaAmes
              Wasn't cascading billing created to solve this problem?
              But all processors scrub... they HAVE to to maintain their ratios... It seems though that many processors scrub hardest on the same days, so cascading billing isn't always as effective as it could be.

              ICQ 3522039
              Content Manager - orgasm.com
              [email protected]

                Comment

                • ArikaAmes
                  Confirmed User
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 3081
                  #5
                  Originally posted by LadyMischief
                  But all processors scrub... they HAVE to to maintain their ratios... It seems though that many processors scrub hardest on the same days, so cascading billing isn't always as effective as it could be.
                  Ah. I know they all scrub, but I thought some would scrub less. Wonder why they seem to do it all during the same time period (scrub)?

                    Comment

                    • Nysus
                      Confirmed User
                      • Aug 2001
                      • 7817
                      #6
                      Cascading billing works because it's seemless and invisible to surfers, and I believe the last option is it sends you to a checking option or other form of payment. I'm not sure how much of an effect it would have on surfers as I believe it's all transparent?

                      Cheers,
                      Matt
                      What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

                      Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

                      See http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=16744521 and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=948645

                        Comment

                        • jact
                          Confirmed User
                          • Sep 2002
                          • 9134
                          #7
                          Originally posted by Nysus
                          Cascading billing works because it's seemless and invisible to surfers, and I believe the last option is it sends you to a checking option or other form of payment. I'm not sure how much of an effect it would have on surfers as I believe it's all transparent?

                          Cheers,
                          Matt
                          Having been scrubbed out the door on a couple MPA2 programs, I can tell you it isn't transparent at all.
                          Free agent

                            Comment

                            • ArikaAmes
                              Confirmed User
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 3081
                              #8
                              Originally posted by jact
                              Having been scrubbed out the door on a couple MPA2 programs, I can tell you it isn't transparent at all.
                              "scrubbed out the door"

                              Funniest thing I've read all day...

                                Comment

                                • Sly_RJ
                                  Live Hard - Die Hard
                                  • Feb 2002
                                  • 17042
                                  #9
                                  In the past 2 years I've ran several different cards (twice they were brand new) through CCBill and have been declined everytime. I have never been able to process my cards through CCBill. The secondary processor (often 2 Check Out) got my business instead.
                                  PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price!
                                  sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

                                    Comment

                                    • polish_aristocrat
                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                      • Jul 2002
                                      • 40377
                                      #10
                                      My experience with polish cc:

                                      ibill = 95% decline, 5% acceptance
                                      epoch = 100% declines
                                      ccbill = 100% declines
                                      other ( european, offshore and 1 US processor - Jettis ) = mostly acceptance
                                      I don't use ICQ anymore.

                                        Comment

                                        • LadyMischief
                                          Orgasms N Such!
                                          • Sep 2002
                                          • 18135
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by Sly_RJ
                                          In the past 2 years I've ran several different cards (twice they were brand new) through CCBill and have been declined everytime. I have never been able to process my cards through CCBill. The secondary processor (often 2 Check Out) got my business instead.
                                          Isn't it frustrating?

                                          ICQ 3522039
                                          Content Manager - orgasm.com
                                          [email protected]

                                            Comment

                                            • jact
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Sep 2002
                                              • 9134
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by Sly_RJ
                                              In the past 2 years I've ran several different cards (twice they were brand new) through CCBill and have been declined everytime. I have never been able to process my cards through CCBill. The secondary processor (often 2 Check Out) got my business instead.
                                              I've experience similar, corvett assured me that the only way a card is automatically scrubbed is if it's been flagged for fraud.

                                              Funny, I tried my card the same day I activated it.
                                              Free agent

                                                Comment

                                                • doober
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Jul 2003
                                                  • 6984
                                                  #13
                                                  if they have stopped signing up it means they have stopped consuming...albeit by force since they the processors arent letting them in.

                                                  Im canadian and I have more than enough credit, i still cant signup with many of my own valid cc's to many many sites.

                                                  wtf is surfer supposed to do?

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Sly_RJ
                                                      Live Hard - Die Hard
                                                      • Feb 2002
                                                      • 17042
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by LadyMischief
                                                      Isn't it frustrating?
                                                      Yeh, about a year and a half ago I was going to pay for paysite access for the first time at brianabanks.com. I couldn't join. Tried 2 different cards and I've still never seen the inside of that site, hehe.

                                                      Perfect example of why any paysite should use cascade billing. Yeh, legitimate purchases will still slip by, but it's better than nothing.
                                                      PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price!
                                                      sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

                                                        Comment

                                                        • polish_aristocrat
                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                          • Jul 2002
                                                          • 40377
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by doober

                                                          wtf is surfer supposed to do?
                                                          say "fuck it, those fuckers don't want my money, so i will go to Kazza"
                                                          I don't use ICQ anymore.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • LadyMischief
                                                              Orgasms N Such!
                                                              • Sep 2002
                                                              • 18135
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by doober
                                                              if they have stopped signing up it means they have stopped consuming...albeit by force since they the processors arent letting them in.

                                                              Im canadian and I have more than enough credit, i still cant signup with many of my own valid cc's to many many sites.

                                                              wtf is surfer supposed to do?
                                                              Well that's my point. These surfers are kind of forced to leech because they can't buy memberships... So not only are the actual sales scrubbed, but that person will be less likely to even TRY to buy in the future. Once bitten twice shy. Only problem is I doubt there's anything we can do as an industry to change that.. is there?

                                                              ICQ 3522039
                                                              Content Manager - orgasm.com
                                                              [email protected]

                                                                Comment

                                                                • polish_aristocrat
                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                  • Jul 2002
                                                                  • 40377
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by LadyMischief
                                                                  Only problem is I doubt there's anything we can do as an industry to change that.. is there?
                                                                  maybe just offer better content in members areas and lots of extras and better customer support, so that surfers charge back less.
                                                                  When they charge back less, then processors may also scrubb a little less, assuming there will be no further, stricter cb rules from VISA / MC.
                                                                  I don't use ICQ anymore.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • chupacabra
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                                      • 3626
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by LadyMischief
                                                                      Well that's my point. These surfers are kind of forced to leech because they can't buy memberships... So not only are the actual sales scrubbed, but that person will be less likely to even TRY to buy in the future. Once bitten twice shy. Only problem is I doubt there's anything we can do as an industry to change that.. is there?
                                                                      this is dead-on accurate. just from past experience i have had multiple gold and platinum VISA's and MC's denied by the big US processors over the years, some of them sites i actually saw here on GFY and wanted to check out. i can use my CC's anywhere else online, why scrub just these sort of transactions so hard for no reason? as its been pointed out before, scrubbing perfectly good transactions for no reason wouldn't help lower chargeback ratio's in the first place, it would make them higher since the pool of good transactions is shrinking... i don't understand the point of scrubbing when it isn't cardholders from obscure locales, i'm not ashamed to admiit..
                                                                      ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • chupacabra
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Sep 2002
                                                                          • 3626
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
                                                                          maybe just offer better content in members areas and lots of extras and better customer support, so that surfers charge back less.
                                                                          When they charge back less, then processors may also scrubb a little less, assuming there will be no further, stricter cb rules from VISA / MC.
                                                                          from what i can tell, at least w/ the big US-based processors, your current chargeback ratio has absolutely *nothing* to do w/ the scrub level applied; i have accounts w/ two of the "big three" that sit at .05-.1 for months and months on end and the scrubbing doesn't subside..
                                                                          ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • LadyMischief
                                                                              Orgasms N Such!
                                                                              • Sep 2002
                                                                              • 18135
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
                                                                              maybe just offer better content in members areas and lots of extras and better customer support, so that surfers charge back less.
                                                                              When they charge back less, then processors may also scrubb a little less, assuming there will be no further, stricter cb rules from VISA / MC.
                                                                              Sick thing is, the industry brought this upon themselves, with sub-standard member's areas, lying tours, false advertising, etc. Cheaters and frauds have also contributed to this. I wonder though, would measures like you've listed here actually help put the situation into a reversal?

                                                                              ICQ 3522039
                                                                              Content Manager - orgasm.com
                                                                              [email protected]

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • MediumPimpin
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Apr 2003
                                                                                  • 1488
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by Nysus
                                                                                  Cascading billing works because it's seemless and invisible to surfers, and I believe the last option is it sends you to a checking option or other form of payment. I'm not sure how much of an effect it would have on surfers as I believe it's all transparent?

                                                                                  Cheers,
                                                                                  Matt
                                                                                  Cascading billing does work worth a crap it my opinion, from my logs most bail out after the first decline, and I should know I have had three mpa2 programs and I have a new one that cascades, it is not the answer.

                                                                                  Today we are running at about a 70% decline rate, yep 70% and before you say its cheaters most of these are from non-Webmaster traffic.

                                                                                  The number one issue with adult is the credit card situation, something has to change and change soon.
                                                                                  nats.mediumpimpin.com

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • chupacabra
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                                                      • 3626
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      on a related side note, does anyone think that perhaps the multitude of denials many of us wake up to every morning these days are not the result of traditional scrubbing, but more from the backend acquiring banks themselves denying many transactions right off the bat, based on a transparent set of variables we know nothing about?

                                                                                      my biggest gripe lately, is why so many of my *rebills* are declined in recent weeks, many of them long-time customers w/ a history of rebills behind them. i've had customers email me clueless as to why their password pair has stopped working, becuase they assume they've been rebilled and should have access. those are good transactions getting shitcanned, so thats definitely not helping any chargeback ratio's..
                                                                                      ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • jact
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Sep 2002
                                                                                          • 9134
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by chupacabra
                                                                                          on a related side note, does anyone think that perhaps the multitude of denials many of us wake up to every morning these days are not the result of traditional scrubbing, but more from the backend acquiring banks themselves denying many transactions right off the bat, based on a transparent set of variables we know nothing about?

                                                                                          my biggest gripe lately, is why so many of my *rebills* are declined in recent weeks, many of them long-time customers w/ a history of rebills behind them. i've had customers email me clueless as to why their password pair has stopped working, becuase they assume they've been rebilled and should have access. those are good transactions getting shitcanned, so thats definitely not helping any chargeback ratio's..
                                                                                          Isn't a big part of scrubbing exactly that? Denying based upon certain criteria even before attempting a transaction?
                                                                                          Free agent

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • chupacabra
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Sep 2002
                                                                                              • 3626
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by jact
                                                                                              Isn't a big part of scrubbing exactly that? Denying based upon certain criteria even before attempting a transaction?
                                                                                              well, as far as the rebills go, it doesn't make any sense that a long-time subscriber business is suddenly undesirable, after months and months of good rebills w/ no chargebacks or refund requests. just what is the criteria for an approval these days? it doesn't seem to be based on anything like locale of potential subscriber, which is evident from all the reports here from webmasters whose cards are perpetually declined as well (like mine)..
                                                                                              ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • chupacabra
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Sep 2002
                                                                                                  • 3626
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  i should add...

                                                                                                  "You have submitted too many times today."

                                                                                                  i'm sure many here are all too familiar w/ that phrase..
                                                                                                  ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • jact
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                                                                      • 9134
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by chupacabra
                                                                                                      well, as far as the rebills go, it doesn't make any sense that a long-time subscriber business is suddenly undesirable, after months and months of good rebills w/ no chargebacks or refund requests. just what is the criteria for an approval these days? it doesn't seem to be based on anything like locale of potential subscriber, which is evident from all the reports here from webmasters whose cards are perpetually declined as well (like mine)..
                                                                                                      Good point, perhaps they need to work on their scrubbing logic for rebills to take situtations like that into account, if scrubbing even applies to rebills..
                                                                                                      Free agent

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • Rich
                                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                          • Jan 2003
                                                                                                          • 11486
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          What cards exactly are they scrubbing? Someone said their Canadian cards weren't being accepted, I've never had that problem. Isn't their scrub list only high risk countries and people who have charged back before?

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • chupacabra
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • Sep 2002
                                                                                                              • 3626
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by Rich
                                                                                                              What cards exactly are they scrubbing? Someone said their Canadian cards weren't being accepted, I've never had that problem. Isn't their scrub list only high risk countries and people who have charged back before?
                                                                                                              defiintely not. i'm located within the US and have had on multiple occasions both VISA's and MC's issued by BoA and WellsFargo declined by both ccBill and iBill, and these are cards w/ proper CVV2 presented, proper US billing address supplied, and no history of disputes whatsoever. i cant think of any reason why they would be scrubbed out, but it has happened many times... i've come to suspect that scrubbing is set off something as simple as a random seed..
                                                                                                              ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • MediumPimpin
                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                  • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                  • 1488
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  They also scrub by bank or bank bin, so say they have a high CB ratio from "bank of whateverville" they will decline any sales from that bank period.
                                                                                                                  nats.mediumpimpin.com

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • doober
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                      • 6984
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by chupacabra
                                                                                                                      from what i can tell, at least w/ the big US-based processors, your current chargeback ratio has absolutely *nothing* to do w/ the scrub level applied; i have accounts w/ two of the "big three" that sit at .05-.1 for months and months on end and the scrubbing doesn't subside..
                                                                                                                      Expand your thought here, forget what your account looks like for a moment.
                                                                                                                      What if everyone else is way past the 1% bullshit.

                                                                                                                      At the end of the day the processor is accoutable for all its merchants not just you.
                                                                                                                      So while you are sitting pretty at .5% the others may not.
                                                                                                                      At the same time trying to put transactions thru as a whole would be down wouldnt it?

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • doober
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                          • 6984
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by jact
                                                                                                                          Good point, perhaps they need to work on their scrubbing logic for rebills to take situtations like that into account, if scrubbing even applies to rebills..

                                                                                                                          Wouldnt that be just plain dumb if they did that?
                                                                                                                          User signups and has passed the initial scrub, jumped thru three hoops on one leg and sucked off a midget tranny while in the air.
                                                                                                                          Now they are gonna go scrub this guy?
                                                                                                                          This is *After* he gets thru initially and they have already billed him?


                                                                                                                          If this is the case, its just plain fucking stupid and the whole premise on which they process needs to be revised

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • corvette
                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                              • Oct 2001
                                                                                                                              • 7880
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              i would be surprised if any processors scrubbed on rebills...


                                                                                                                              i posted this in a thread on a different board about signups/chargebacks:

                                                                                                                              "the scrubbing takes out the obvious trash, but many people don?t realize or believe that?some seem to think that it changes on a daily basis for chargebacks that might come in anywhere from a few days to 4 months or more later


                                                                                                                              imho, the thing that causes chargebacks is #1 affiliate fraud, and #2 misleading billing practices; ie prechecked double hidden retroactive cross sales, 3 day tour when in the terms and conditions say you need to cancel within 72 hours, people hiding their cancel button or making it a 8 pages, searching process to find it?."


                                                                                                                              there is a good reason for every decline, and although tempted, it would be silly of me to post some of the more common reasons...
                                                                                                                              If you need a good company for check writing services, then check out checkissuing, and for webhosting, check out Phoenix NAP

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • Oracle Porn
                                                                                                                                  Affiliate
                                                                                                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                  • 24433
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by corvett
                                                                                                                                  i would be surprised if any processors scrubbed on rebills...


                                                                                                                                  i posted this in a thread on a different board about signups/chargebacks:

                                                                                                                                  "the scrubbing takes out the obvious trash, but many people don?t realize or believe that?some seem to think that it changes on a daily basis for chargebacks that might come in anywhere from a few days to 4 months or more later


                                                                                                                                  imho, the thing that causes chargebacks is #1 affiliate fraud, and #2 misleading billing practices; ie prechecked double hidden retroactive cross sales, 3 day tour when in the terms and conditions say you need to cancel within 72 hours, people hiding their cancel button or making it a 8 pages, searching process to find it?."


                                                                                                                                  there is a good reason for every decline, and although tempted, it would be silly of me to post some of the more common reasons...
                                                                                                                                  why would it be silly? don't you want to educate your affiliates to make you the most money and not make too many mistakes that can be avoided?


                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • stev0
                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                      • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                                      • 6801
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by jact
                                                                                                                                      I've experience similar, corvett assured me that the only way a card is automatically scrubbed is if it's been flagged for fraud.

                                                                                                                                      Funny, I tried my card the same day I activated it.
                                                                                                                                      Yeah, i did a test with mine a while back... first day i tried it it was declined, next day it went through. And the info was entered exactly the same each time... so the scrub must vary day by day.

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • doober
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                          • 6984
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by corvett

                                                                                                                                          there is a good reason for every decline
                                                                                                                                          no disrespect, but thats bullshit
                                                                                                                                          not every decline should have been declined to begin with

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • HAPPYPEEKERS
                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                              • Feb 2004
                                                                                                                                              • 7566
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by suesheboy
                                                                                                                                              I agree.

                                                                                                                                              They are also scared of dialers (for good reason).

                                                                                                                                              So what will get fucked up next?
                                                                                                                                              Please Read All Of My Posts In A Sarcastic Tone So You Get The Full Effect!!



                                                                                                                                              HappyPeekers - April

                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                • LadyMischief
                                                                                                                                                  Orgasms N Such!
                                                                                                                                                  • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                                                  • 18135
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Oracle Porn
                                                                                                                                                  why would it be silly? don't you want to educate your affiliates to make you the most money and not make too many mistakes that can be avoided?
                                                                                                                                                  What he said. I'd be interested to hear about it. But really, the point of the thread was more about things from the surfer's side. The processors do what they have to do to continue their business. That makes sense.

                                                                                                                                                  But you are someone I'd like to hear ideas on this from as well. What do you think we, as an industry can do to make things better? For you, the processor. For us, the webmaster, and for the surfer. There's NEVER going to be a perfect solution, but how about a happy comprimise? Advice for webmasters in general?

                                                                                                                                                  ICQ 3522039
                                                                                                                                                  Content Manager - orgasm.com
                                                                                                                                                  [email protected]

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • SquirtingCarly
                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                      • Feb 2004
                                                                                                                                                      • 359
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by corvett



                                                                                                                                                      imho, the thing that causes chargebacks is #1 affiliate fraud, and #2 misleading billing practices; ie prechecked double hidden retroactive cross sales, 3 day tour when in the terms and conditions say you need to cancel within 72 hours, people hiding their cancel button or making it a 8 pages, searching process to find it?."
                                                                                                                                                      those fuckin prechecked bullshit crossells suck, BUT all the ones in favor of them will reply with the old "you should watch what your buying and its the money baby" reply and then they come into threads like these and complain about scrubbing
                                                                                                                                                      FatFuckingCash

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • stocktrader23
                                                                                                                                                          Let's do some business.
                                                                                                                                                          • Jan 2003
                                                                                                                                                          • 18781
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by corvett
                                                                                                                                                          i would be surprised if any processors scrubbed on rebills...


                                                                                                                                                          i posted this in a thread on a different board about signups/chargebacks:

                                                                                                                                                          "the scrubbing takes out the obvious trash, but many people don?t realize or believe that?some seem to think that it changes on a daily basis for chargebacks that might come in anywhere from a few days to 4 months or more later


                                                                                                                                                          imho, the thing that causes chargebacks is #1 affiliate fraud, and #2 misleading billing practices; ie prechecked double hidden retroactive cross sales, 3 day tour when in the terms and conditions say you need to cancel within 72 hours, people hiding their cancel button or making it a 8 pages, searching process to find it?."


                                                                                                                                                          there is a good reason for every decline, and although tempted, it would be silly of me to post some of the more common reasons...
                                                                                                                                                          I am so very happy I don't have your job.


                                                                                                                                                          Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life

                                                                                                                                                          "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

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                                                                                                                                                            • chupacabra
                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                              • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                                                              • 3626
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              if rebills are not scrubbed (and i believe Corvett implicitely if he says they are not) then i wonder if we are talking about something other than actual scrubbing after all as i mentioned in a previous post in this thread... maybe more a symptom of the acquiring banks themselves on the backend blocking some online transactions wholesale for certain customers?

                                                                                                                                                              i find the whole concept of the brutal scrub that is so often bitched about hard to come to terms w/, as i don't see how it could possibly help a processor do business or make money... w/ all the complaining about scrubbing here on the boards perhaps we should be looking past the processors here, and more at the banks themselves limiting the amount of online "no card present" transactions for their customers on their own volition.

                                                                                                                                                              now this scenario i would find easier to believe than the processors themselves limiting their own profits, and could also be way more worrisome for all of us if true..
                                                                                                                                                              ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                • imageman
                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                  • Jun 2003
                                                                                                                                                                  • 1938
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by corvett
                                                                                                                                                                  i would be surprised if any processors scrubbed on rebills...


                                                                                                                                                                  i posted this in a thread on a different board about signups/chargebacks:

                                                                                                                                                                  "the scrubbing takes out the obvious trash, but many people don?t realize or believe that?some seem to think that it changes on a daily basis for chargebacks that might come in anywhere from a few days to 4 months or more later


                                                                                                                                                                  imho, the thing that causes chargebacks is #1 affiliate fraud, and #2 misleading billing practices; ie prechecked double hidden retroactive cross sales, 3 day tour when in the terms and conditions say you need to cancel within 72 hours, people hiding their cancel button or making it a 8 pages, searching process to find it?."


                                                                                                                                                                  there is a good reason for every decline, and although tempted, it would be silly of me to post some of the more common reasons...
                                                                                                                                                                  I think #2 should be surfer fraud . Surfers know that banks and billing companies have a knee jerk reaction to the word charge back so they get away with fraud almost every time. Stop this practice and i think you would see a difference in sales.

                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                    • JDog
                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                      • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                                                      • 7453
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      first off if the person is being scrubbed, there should be a good reason! do you want this guy not to be scrubbed. Because the guy might be a chargeback freak! I'd rather have the guys scrubbed than not to. Because then you've given away free bandwidth, free access to the site, and it goes against you with visa!

                                                                                                                                                                      jDoG
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                                                                                                                                                                        • MediumPimpin
                                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                          • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                                                                          • 1488
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by corvett
                                                                                                                                                                          i would be surprised if any processors scrubbed on rebills...


                                                                                                                                                                          i posted this in a thread on a different board about signups/chargebacks:

                                                                                                                                                                          "the scrubbing takes out the obvious trash, but many people don?t realize or believe that?some seem to think that it changes on a daily basis for chargebacks that might come in anywhere from a few days to 4 months or more later


                                                                                                                                                                          imho, the thing that causes chargebacks is #1 affiliate fraud, and #2 misleading billing practices; ie prechecked double hidden retroactive cross sales, 3 day tour when in the terms and conditions say you need to cancel within 72 hours, people hiding their cancel button or making it a 8 pages, searching process to find it?."


                                                                                                                                                                          there is a good reason for every decline, and although tempted, it would be silly of me to post some of the more common reasons...
                                                                                                                                                                          So are you saying billers scrub on the individual or the bank level? We don?t do trials, or click or un-clicked up sells, and we have 7 day phone support, our CB ratio is low, but most of our declines are from non webmaster traffic. I have a hard time joining my own sites with some of my own cards, leading me to believe the bank is blocked.
                                                                                                                                                                          nats.mediumpimpin.com

                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                            • LadyMischief
                                                                                                                                                                              Orgasms N Such!
                                                                                                                                                                              • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                                                                              • 18135
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by JDog
                                                                                                                                                                              first off if the person is being scrubbed, there should be a good reason! do you want this guy not to be scrubbed. Because the guy might be a chargeback freak! I'd rather have the guys scrubbed than not to. Because then you've given away free bandwidth, free access to the site, and it goes against you with visa!

                                                                                                                                                                              jDoG
                                                                                                                                                                              Many people scrubbed are ditched for something as simple as a p.o. box address. How is that good critirea? And if you were that surfer, would you want to go through the bullshit again? It's hard enough to convince them to whip out plastic, let alone make them jump through hoops to do it, with good potential that the will not be allowed to do so! If it was me as a surfer, no fucking way! This has to leave something of a bad taste in the mouth of the surfer. What could this mean for the future of our industry, and sales/billing in particular? Is there a solution?
                                                                                                                                                                              Last edited by LadyMischief; 05-18-2004, 05:29 PM.

                                                                                                                                                                              ICQ 3522039
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                                                                                                                                                                                • SquirtingCarly
                                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Feb 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 359
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by LadyMischief
                                                                                                                                                                                  Many people scrubbed are ditched for something as simple as a p.o. box address. How is that good critirea? And if you were that surfer, would you want to go through the bullshit again? It's hard enough to convince them to whip out plastic, let alone make them jump through hoops to do it, with good potential that the will not be allowed to do so! If it was me as a surfer, no fucking way! This has to leave something of a bad taste in the mouth of the surfer What could this mean for the future of our industry, and sales/billing in particular? Is there a solution?
                                                                                                                                                                                  I feel it will only get worse before it takes a turn for the better. The fuckin declines I get kill me every fuckin day.
                                                                                                                                                                                  FatFuckingCash

                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                    • corvette
                                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                      • Oct 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 7880
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
                                                                                                                                                                                      Sorry for the delay?

                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Oracle Porn
                                                                                                                                                                                      don't you want to educate your affiliates to make you the most money and not make too many mistakes that can be avoided?
                                                                                                                                                                                      I was referring to the reasons that risky transactions get declined by ccbill. I am not going to risk the chance of posting something that might facilitate the circumventing of our fraud prevention methods.


                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by imageman
                                                                                                                                                                                      I think #2 should be surfer fraud . Surfers know that banks and billing companies have a knee jerk reaction to the word charge back so they get away with fraud almost every time. Stop this practice and i think you would see a difference in sales.
                                                                                                                                                                                      there are companies out there that run exceptional businesses and have very low chargeback rates
                                                                                                                                                                                      If you need a good company for check writing services, then check out checkissuing, and for webhosting, check out Phoenix NAP

                                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                        • bhutocracy
                                                                                                                                                                                          Not making A Comeback
                                                                                                                                                                                          • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 10218
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by MediumPimpin
                                                                                                                                                                                          So are you saying billers scrub on the individual or the bank level? We don?t do trials, or click or un-clicked up sells, and we have 7 day phone support, our CB ratio is low, but most of our declines are from non webmaster traffic. I have a hard time joining my own sites with some of my own cards, leading me to believe the bank is blocked.
                                                                                                                                                                                          it IS the banks.. there are several aussie bank issued cards that plainly will not work. I can't sign up to ANY paysite with my card..

                                                                                                                                                                                          But i've got to disagree with the cascading thing, sure it's not seamless and transparent like people think it is but it literally nets 33% more profit. I've got one newish site with only 162 members but shows neatly in the figures what cascading means to me:

                                                                                                                                                                                          101 ccbill
                                                                                                                                                                                          v

                                                                                                                                                                                          55 epoch

                                                                                                                                                                                          (6 check)

                                                                                                                                                                                          thats a pretty massive.. can't ignore a third using 3rd party only.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Last edited by bhutocracy; 05-18-2004, 08:21 PM.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                            • Lane
                                                                                                                                                                                              Will code for food...
                                                                                                                                                                                              • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 8496
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by Nysus
                                                                                                                                                                                              Cascading billing works because it's seemless and invisible to surfers, and I believe the last option is it sends you to a checking option or other form of payment. I'm not sure how much of an effect it would have on surfers as I believe it's all transparent?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Matt

                                                                                                                                                                                              third party billers dont allow this. user has to enter CC info on every single processor. so its not invisible at all.
                                                                                                                                                                                              it can be done only maybe if you have merchant accounts at each processor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                • Mr. Marks
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 7517
                                                                                                                                                                                                  #49

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                    • bhutocracy
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Not making A Comeback
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • 10218
                                                                                                                                                                                                      #50
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by bhutocracy
                                                                                                                                                                                                      it IS the banks.. there are several aussie bank issued cards that plainly will not work. I can't sign up to ANY paysite with my card..

                                                                                                                                                                                                      But i've got to disagree with the cascading thing, sure it's not seamless and transparent like people think it is but it literally nets 33% more profit. I've got one newish site with only 162 members but shows neatly in the figures what cascading means to me:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      101 ccbill
                                                                                                                                                                                                      v

                                                                                                                                                                                                      55 epoch

                                                                                                                                                                                                      (6 check)

                                                                                                                                                                                                      thats a pretty massive.. can't ignore a third using 3rd party only.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I just want to add that i know it's 50% more profit, or 150% times the profit not 33% more, i meant it accounts for roughly 33% of the profit of the site, in case there are any people like me that get bugged when people use bad maths.

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