More Thoughts on Berg Execution

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  • Paul Waters
    Confirmed User
    • Mar 2003
    • 4402
    #1

    More Thoughts on Berg Execution

    The Toronto Globe and Mail newspaper has a columnist named Rick Salutin who always seems to see things others don't. His column is only partially about Berg:

    Which reality is real?

    I had completely missed the allusion to the Guantanomo Bay prisioners, in the way Berg was dressed. I have not seen anyone else point it out before, either.

    But a point Salutin referred to that may be disturbing to some, is that there was no degradation or humiliation of Berg. This contrasts starkley with the American conduct.

    The manner of his execution was horrific, certainly. But perfectly normal by Arab standards. That is how executions occur in Saudi Arabia, and the US seems to have no trouble with that.

    And Berg's father blames Bush....




    Paul
    Tags: None
    • Spunky
      I need a beer
      • Jun 2002
      • 133986
      #2
      Nobody deserved getting his head chopped off.But he was told a few times to leave and he didn't

        Comment

        • candyflip
          Carpe Visio
          • Jul 2002
          • 43069
          #3
          GFYers picked out the jumpsuit within minutes of the video being posted.

          Spend you some brain.
          Email Me

            Comment

            • David!
              By the wrath of Agamemnon
              • Apr 2004
              • 6501
              #4
              Originally posted by Paul Waters

              The manner of his execution was horrific, certainly. But perfectly normal by Arab standards. That is how executions occur in Saudi Arabia, and the US seems to have no trouble with that.

              And Berg's father blames Bush....
              Yes, they still do it in Saudi Arabia, however they cut off the head with a huge sword which is used only once just like a guillotine, they don't saw off the head with a small knife...
              .

                Comment

                • Paul Waters
                  Confirmed User
                  • Mar 2003
                  • 4402
                  #5
                  Originally posted by PussyMan
                  Yes, they still do it in Saudi Arabia, however they cut off the head with a huge sword which is used only once just like a guillotine, they don't saw off the head with a small knife...

                  Hmmm......

                  ....I may regret asking this.....but...


                  ..........how do you know?




                  Paul

                    Comment

                    • David!
                      By the wrath of Agamemnon
                      • Apr 2004
                      • 6501
                      #6
                      Originally posted by Paul Waters
                      Hmmm......

                      ....I may regret asking this.....but...


                      ..........how do you know?
                      State Department Resources
                      Plus, CNN and Fox News always talk about beheading in Saudi Arabia when there is no other news to talk about, granted this hasn't been the case in a while
                      .

                        Comment

                        • jennym
                          Confirmed User
                          • May 2003
                          • 1622
                          #7
                          Originally posted by Paul Waters

                          And Berg's father blames Bush....
                          This is the part about the family that pisses me off.

                          The father is "anti-war", "anti-bush", "anti-this administration"

                          The father says his son supported Bush and the war, but he USES his son's death to bash Bush. IMO, that means he is using his son's death to bash his son's beliefs.

                            Comment

                            • Paul Waters
                              Confirmed User
                              • Mar 2003
                              • 4402
                              #8
                              Originally posted by jennym
                              The father says his son supported Bush and the war, but he USES his son's death to bash Bush. IMO, that means he is using his son's death to bash his son's beliefs.
                              Maybe he just figures that if Bush did not invade Iraq (under false pretenses) that his son would still be alive.




                              Paul

                                Comment

                                • Manowar
                                  jellyfish  
                                  • Dec 2003
                                  • 71528
                                  #9
                                  His father blames bush for the detention that delayed his son leaving the country, not for starting the war

                                    Comment

                                    • RicardoB
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Jan 2004
                                      • 2576
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by Paul Waters
                                      Maybe he just figures that if Bush did not invade Iraq (under false pretenses) that his son would still be alive.
                                      Which would probably be a correct asumption

                                        Comment

                                        • Lucy
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Mar 2004
                                          • 3969
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by Manowar
                                          His father blames bush for the detention that delayed his son leaving the country, not for starting the war

                                          agreed, good point

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                                            Comment

                                            • KRL
                                              Entrepreneur
                                              • Oct 2002
                                              • 31429
                                              #12
                                              Beheadings happen all the time in Saudi Arabia. They also chop off the hands of thieves. The feet of people. etc.
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                                                • Fletch XXX
                                                  GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                                  • Jan 2002
                                                  • 60840
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by Manowar
                                                  His father blames bush for the detention that delayed his son leaving the country, not for starting the war
                                                  "Back in March somebody posted an ?enemies list? composed of ?signatories to an anti-war petition,? one of whom was supposedly Nick Berg's father, Michael."

                                                  http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Rea...e.asp?ID=13381

                                                  "An alternative, left-leaning blog, www.breakfornews.com posted a story theorizing that the Iraqi police had detained Nick Berg because his company, Prometheus Methods Tower Service Inc., and his father had been named on a list of "enemies" of the Iraq occupation in March."

                                                  http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...on/8661776.htm

                                                  his father signed anti-war petitions.

                                                  searching news sites for "enemies list" can prduce results that support this theory

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                                                    • loverboy
                                                      When it rains, it pours
                                                      • May 2003
                                                      • 20609
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by KRL
                                                      Beheadings happen all the time in Saudi Arabia. They also chop off the hands of thieves. The feet of people. etc.
                                                      barbaric act but true... that's why in Saudi, there is a low criminality rate

                                                        Comment

                                                        • jennym
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • May 2003
                                                          • 1622
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by Paul Waters
                                                          Maybe he just figures that if Bush did not invade Iraq (under false pretenses) that his son would still be alive.
                                                          If that is his reasoning, then he is a bigger idiot than I think he is. His GROWN son went to Iraq by CHOICE. period.

                                                          Regardless of his father's reasoning, as a parent, I find it unacceptable to USE HIS SON'S DEATH for anything, much less political bullshit.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • soldierdog
                                                              Registered User
                                                              • Jan 2004
                                                              • 82
                                                              #16
                                                              Just because they hack in chop shit off in other Countries doesn't make it a good or right thing to do.

                                                              I'll take a couple of dog bites by some jerks who are going to receive some type of "justice" over my head getting sawed off anyday.

                                                              There are also places where people used to eat other humans, cutting pieces off of them while they were still alive and chewing the flesh in front of them, places where they shoot women in the head in soccer stadiums, rape and brutalize without any consequences, without any "justice".

                                                              That is shit that should not ever be accepted as a "Cultural Difference", it is brutal, sick and inhuman by any standard and there is no defense for it. I don't give a fuck if they've been doing it that way in Saudi Arabia for the last Billion Years, it is well overdue for the entire region to clean up their act and for leftists to stop justifying these atrocious actions.

                                                              Those fucks killed that guy because he was a Jewish American, it was an act of extreme racism, EXTREME. And there is a lot of Racism going around these days towards Americans and towards Caucasions without any regard for consequences.

                                                              When the tailgate drops, the bullshit stops

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Esbee
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Jun 2003
                                                                  • 109
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by jennym
                                                                  Regardless of his father's reasoning, as a parent, I find it unacceptable to USE HIS SON'S DEATH for anything, much less political bullshit.
                                                                  Nicholas Berg died for the sins of George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld," Michael Berg, visibly upset, told ABC television. "The al-Qaeda people are probably just as bad as they are, but this administration did this," he said.

                                                                  So according to this guy, the US administration is, at best, tied with Al Qaeda in terms of being bad people yet leaves the door open that Bush and Co. are actually worse than al Qaeda. This being the same al Qaeda that recently cut off his son's head.

                                                                  Bizarre.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • jennym
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • May 2003
                                                                      • 1622
                                                                      #18
                                                                      The father also said of the terrorists - "They killed their best friend"

                                                                      WTF is that supposed to mean?

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • arial
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Jul 2002
                                                                          • 4012
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by Paul Waters
                                                                          And Berg's father blames Bush....
                                                                          From what I've read he was told numerous times to leave the country even offered a plane ticket out of it... if that's true then no one's to blame but himself. But even at that shouldn't have happened, but it's a fucked up world we live in these days thats for sure.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • SuckOnThis
                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                              • Oct 2003
                                                                              • 6844
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by jennym
                                                                              If that is his reasoning, then he is a bigger idiot than I think he is. His GROWN son went to Iraq by CHOICE. period.

                                                                              Regardless of his father's reasoning, as a parent, I find it unacceptable to USE HIS SON'S DEATH for anything, much less political bullshit.
                                                                              Who the fuck cares what you find unacceptable. You're not the one dealing with your kids head being cut off for the world to see. People like you sit back with your Pepsi and bag of Doritos and judge someones reaction in a time of crisis? Fuck you.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Centurion
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Dec 2002
                                                                                  • 6033
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by jennym
                                                                                  This is the part about the family that pisses me off.

                                                                                  The father is "anti-war", "anti-bush", "anti-this administration"

                                                                                  The father says his son supported Bush and the war, but he USES his son's death to bash Bush. IMO, that means he is using his son's death to bash his son's beliefs.
                                                                                  OR, the father is using his son's death to SUPPORT his beliefs!

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Centurion
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Dec 2002
                                                                                      • 6033
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by jennym

                                                                                      Regardless of his father's reasoning, as a parent, I find it unacceptable to USE HIS SON'S DEATH for anything, much less political bullshit.
                                                                                      If everyone followed your logic, the war in VietNam would have continued on for a very long time if the parents who lossed their sons did not say anything.

                                                                                      And now you're telling parents who lose their sons or daughters to shut the fuck up..that they have NO RIGHT to speak out about what took their children's lives?

                                                                                      What bs!

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Downtime
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • May 2004
                                                                                          • 7320
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          You know I just today watched the video for the first time to realize that the mother fucker sawed his head off with the knife instead of the traditional one clean sweep method. Now I'm even more pissed off.
                                                                                          #27024067

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • jennym
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • May 2003
                                                                                              • 1622
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by SuckOnThis
                                                                                              Who the fuck cares what you find unacceptable. You're not the one dealing with your kids head being cut off for the world to see. People like you sit back with your Pepsi and bag of Doritos and judge someones reaction in a time of crisis? Fuck you.
                                                                                              On a certain level, I completely agree with you on that point. I am not into judging people on the way they grieve.

                                                                                              All I am saying is it seems disrespectful to his son. His son BELIEVED in what he was doing, and his father is undermining the choices he made as an adult.

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • jennym
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • May 2003
                                                                                                  • 1622
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Centurion
                                                                                                  If everyone followed your logic, the war in VietNam would have continued on for a very long time if the parents who lossed their sons did not say anything.

                                                                                                  And now you're telling parents who lose their sons or daughters to shut the fuck up..that they have NO RIGHT to speak out about what took their children's lives?

                                                                                                  What bs!
                                                                                                  I have no problem with the families of fallen soldiers who did not want to be in the war saying so. This is totally different. George Bush DID NOT send this poor young man to fight in this war. He went BY CHOICE to do what he felt was the right thing. He died doing what he believed was the right thing. He deserves respect for that. He especially deserves that respect from his father.

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • Pleasurepays
                                                                                                      BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES
                                                                                                      • Aug 2002
                                                                                                      • 11913
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by PussyMan
                                                                                                      Yes, they still do it in Saudi Arabia, however they cut off the head with a huge sword which is used only once just like a guillotine, they don't saw off the head with a small knife...
                                                                                                      whats the difference, it looks like he was dead when they cut off his head anyway.

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • candyflip
                                                                                                          Carpe Visio
                                                                                                          • Jul 2002
                                                                                                          • 43069
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by Esbee
                                                                                                          Nicholas Berg died for the sins of George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld," Michael Berg, visibly upset, told ABC television. "The al-Qaeda people are probably just as bad as they are, but this administration did this," he said.

                                                                                                          So according to this guy, the US administration is, at best, tied with Al Qaeda in terms of being bad people yet leaves the door open that Bush and Co. are actually worse than al Qaeda. This being the same al Qaeda that recently cut off his son's head.

                                                                                                          Bizarre.
                                                                                                          This was not Al Queda, but another organization that once had ties with Al Queda. The administration would like everyone to believe it was Al Queda, but it wasn't. Looks like they got you though

                                                                                                          Spend you some brain.
                                                                                                          Email Me

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • mindoza
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • Jan 2004
                                                                                                              • 1625
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by jennym
                                                                                                              The father also said of the terrorists - "They killed their best friend"

                                                                                                              WTF is that supposed to mean?
                                                                                                              Because he was there to help rebuild the city I think that is what he meant.
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                                                                                                                • Phoenix
                                                                                                                  BACON BACON BACON
                                                                                                                  • Nov 2002
                                                                                                                  • 35475
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by soldierdog

                                                                                                                  Those fucks killed that guy because he was a Jewish American, it was an act of extreme racism, EXTREME. And there is a lot of Racism going around these days towards Americans and towards Caucasions without any regard for consequences.
                                                                                                                  true.
                                                                                                                  there is a growing amount of Racism towards caucasians everywhere. I dont really give a shit, i dont let anyone affect me, but it is a sign of trouble to come for sure.
                                                                                                                  Telegram PhoenixBrad
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                                                                                                                    • jennym
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • May 2003
                                                                                                                      • 1622
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by mindoza
                                                                                                                      Because he was there to help rebuild the city I think that is what he meant.
                                                                                                                      Doesn't this father realize the terrorists don't want the city rebuilt? They want a regime in power that they can control.

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • Esbee
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • Jun 2003
                                                                                                                          • 109
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by candyflip
                                                                                                                          This was not Al Queda, but another organization that once had ties with Al Queda. The administration would like everyone to believe it was Al Queda, but it wasn't. Looks like they got you though
                                                                                                                          Yeah... ummm... I think you missed the point there sparky.

                                                                                                                          You can argue the massive distinctions between fucking crazy militant Islamic terrorist group A and fucking crazy militant Islamic terrorist group B all you want. Fact is the father just ranked al Qaeda above the sitting President and cabinet.

                                                                                                                          The guy is speaking from pure hatred now. The publicity surrounding his son's death has given him a temporary voice in the media and all he can voice is that hatred. Grieving or not, I find it pathetic.

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • crockett
                                                                                                                              in a van by the river
                                                                                                                              • May 2003
                                                                                                                              • 76818
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              I've seen a video of a guy getting his hand cut off in one of these middle Eastern countries. They had a rope wrapped around both his forearms and two guys were pulling on them from each direction. A third guy took a saw and basically cut off his hand, very quickly but was a pretty barbaric way of doing things. But that's the way they are, so they seem to use what ever is available.. Hence the use of a knife and not a sword or something.

                                                                                                                              The thing that stands out to me with this whole Berg case, is the fact that if he was held by the US and for 15 days or two weeks what ever it was. Why did he not get in touch with his family as soon as he was released? It's like he was captured as soon as he was released.
                                                                                                                              In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • jennym
                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                  • May 2003
                                                                                                                                  • 1622
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by crockett

                                                                                                                                  The thing that stands out to me with this whole Berg case, is the fact that if he was held by the US and for 15 days or two weeks what ever it was. Why did he not get in touch with his family as soon as he was released? It's like he was captured as soon as he was released.
                                                                                                                                  He was released from custody on April 8th. His parents said the last time they had contact with him was April 9th.
                                                                                                                                  Last edited by jennym; 05-14-2004, 12:21 PM.

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • Centurion
                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                      • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                                      • 6033
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by jennym
                                                                                                                                      I have no problem with the families of fallen soldiers who did not want to be in the war saying so. This is totally different. George Bush DID NOT send this poor young man to fight in this war. He went BY CHOICE to do what he felt was the right thing. He died doing what he believed was the right thing. He deserves respect for that. He especially deserves that respect from his father.
                                                                                                                                      Ultimate irony is that this father is grieving big time over the loss of his son, and has said many things, maybe even things he may regret later, but this happens in grief. And so, you're dinging him because he voices HIS beliefs in his sorrow, and somehow tie this into "disprespecting" his son?

                                                                                                                                      If he didn't respect and LOVE his son, he would NOT be making as big a stink about this as he has.

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • xenophobic
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                          • 874
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by candyflip
                                                                                                                                          This was not Al Queda, but another organization that once had ties with Al Queda. The administration would like everyone to believe it was Al Queda, but it wasn't. Looks like they got you though
                                                                                                                                          lol, yeah I think they were all carrying their Al-Qaeda membership cards.

                                                                                                                                          Al-Qaeda is NOTHING but terrorist groups with ties to each other,

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • Mike AI
                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                              • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                                              • 3624
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by jennym
                                                                                                                                              This is the part about the family that pisses me off.

                                                                                                                                              The father is "anti-war", "anti-bush", "anti-this administration"

                                                                                                                                              The father says his son supported Bush and the war, but he USES his son's death to bash Bush. IMO, that means he is using his son's death to bash his son's beliefs.
                                                                                                                                              Jenny I love you!



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                                                                                                                                                • jennym
                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                  • May 2003
                                                                                                                                                  • 1622
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Centurion
                                                                                                                                                  Ultimate irony is that this father is grieving big time over the loss of his son, and has said many things, maybe even things he may regret later, but this happens in grief. And so, you're dinging him because he voices HIS beliefs in his sorrow, and somehow tie this into "disprespecting" his son?

                                                                                                                                                  If he didn't respect and LOVE his son, he would NOT be making as big a stink about this as he has.
                                                                                                                                                  I have TREMENDOUS sympathy for that father, and his entire family. This whole ordeal must be so awful for them. My opinion here does not diminish that AT ALL! I just hate that everything has to turn political. It is a tragedy, but George Bush did not cause his death.

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • Furious_Male
                                                                                                                                                      Doing the grind since 99
                                                                                                                                                      • Oct 2003
                                                                                                                                                      • 16884
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Most should be able to agree that this is very tragic but Berg did NOT have to be there. Does that mean he should die NO. But he was aware of the risks. He was in a war zone as an unregistered contractor. Tons of risk for the money I would think.

                                                                                                                                                      Supposedly he was given the chance to leave as well yet declined. Reported from many sources.

                                                                                                                                                      The U.S. government warned Nicholas Berg to leave Iraq and offered him a flight out of the country, a month before his grisly beheading was broadcast on an Al Qaeda-linked Web site.
                                                                                                                                                      He was either desparate to land a job or was making some serious money but he took the chances on his own.
                                                                                                                                                      Living in Virtual Reality
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