Greg B

It's time for the 'Abuse Excuse' thread focusing on GWB. The man who has more spinmeisters than a Republican. Wait, he IS a Republican.

Anyhow, who listened to him or read the transcript and who buys his excuse?

llabtaem

I have finally come to the conclusion that I buy NOTHING that comes out of Washigton. I don't care whose mouth it comes out of or on what side of congress they plant their fat asses in.

I'm moving to the fucking South Pole!

Corleone

he's a liar

The Truth Hurts

Bush shouldn't need an excuse...
the fuckwits doing the torture and taking pics do.

Corleone

the TRUTH hurts or?

candyflip

As Commander in Chief he is responsible for the actions of EVERYONE under him. Sucks...but that's the job.

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The Truth Hurts

was that a question?

Greg B

Um, he DOES need an excuse which is why he apologized several times already because last we checked he's still Commander In Chief of the U.S. Armed forces meaning he's responsible for the conduct of his company and crew.

Strife

Yup, 90% of the blame should be placed of those dumbasses that did the torturing.

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Corleone

i understand everything against bush is wrong.. even facts, pics and thousands of poeple that have seen what happend..

but every good word about bush and his regime is true

thats your truth

The Truth Hurts

Right.. and the 50 levels of superiors between those fucking idiots and bush hhave no responsibility?

just eliminate all the ranks and line of command and shit?

Isn't that kinda like suing Sam Walton when some cashier short-changes you at WalMart?

SykkBoy

holy shit, I agree with you on something
dude, this means the end of the world is in sight ;-)

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Roger

He takes the American people for gullible fools. The US, like many other western nations do practice torture but they hide it.

FunForOne

If you dont like politicians that lie, and it is the most important factor gaining your vote. Who you going to vote for?

Cant be Kerry? He doesn't lie! Does he? I still dont know if he has an SUV or not.

XxXotic

i wouldnt believe a word out of bush's mouth if jesus christ himself came to me and said it was truth

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Centurion

I agree.

But Bush is so stupid and so out of the loop it is quite possible he didn't know.

But that's even more reason to get rid of him!

Meta Ridley

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Fletch XXX

no shit.

THE TRUTH HURTS actually AGREED with ME on licensing people to breed!

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TheFrog

me too

The Truth Hurts

Meta Ridley

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RicardoB

I said it then I'll say it now.

It's all about the oil.

And his daddy offcourse

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Goose

I'd buy it 4 times

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stev0

I dont see why people are getting so caught up in the prison abuse cases and blaming it on Bush... Don't they even stop to realize that Bush is responsible for an Un-justified war that KILLED nearly 10,000 people???

But yet, people are up in arms because a few photos of prison abuse surfaced... sounds pretty fucked up to me.

bizmak

don't believe a shit

pussyluver

No! Not at all!

It was the Bush Administration that decided to start eliminating constitutional rights. The right to legal representation, the suspension of due process in doing searches and the list goes on and on. Much of it summed up in the Patriot Act. It is my understanding by the way; there was four copies of the Patriot Act when it was passed by congress. That means they didn?t even read it before passing it. So let?s rack some blame up on congress too.

Are you saying that Bush was not involved in what tactics were being employed at Git-Mo? He was there asking, what did we learn? How did you get the information? Now there was no pressure on finding the WMDs. He never asked or got a report on what and how? He may not have actually come up with the panties on the head idea. I bet he did set the tone of let?s ?do what we have to? or "what ever it takes". Constitution or Conventions of war be dammed.

Shit happens in wars. What do you expect when people are shooting at each other and Americans are killed. This is more than that; I believe this is systemic throughout the prisoner interrogation. It?s not just a perve here or there. I believe this was instigated from the top down.

Greg B

I had to wait all day for the commentary from the John & Ken Show on KFI 640am in Los Angeles (www.johnandkenshow.com)

I had heard Rush and Hannity and the rest of the so called right wing wackos and their bullshit spinning on this issue. Then I figured John and Ken would be the only honorable right wing show to stand up and take responsibility. And I was right. They did.

They focused on the media spin from the other talk show hosts and the military and administration. They've put this girl Pfc England up for slaughter when she was at the bottom of the totem pole on this. Like some of you said above in this thread the chain of command is where we oughtta start.

Right now the administration is crucifying the small guys. The guy that took the pictures and the girl seen in the pictures. As if to say it was an isolated incident amongst wreckless soldiers.

Farthest from the truth so far. More pics and videos coming out as well as testimony. The longer they wait the more suspicious this shit will get.

I don't blame Bush for this shit. At worse either his orders weren't carried out or ignored or he didn't foresee this shit. Yet either way he's gotta address it to the satisfaction of all parties involved instead of that ' I'm the President and what I say goes' shit.

These types of incidents make Bin Laden look good in the world's eyes. Here we're talkin' about a guy who took down the Soviets with brilliant tactics and often used mules and horses to fight.

Now he's fucked up our economy, caused hatred within the republic itself and then this shit with abusing prisoners happens and he can now say ' See? I told you they were full of shit. They weren't interested in liberating Iraq, they were just after your oil.'.

It would be a sad state of affairs if Bin Laden went down in history as the only man to take down 2 super powers.

crockett

I think for the most part these soldiers were doing as they were told, with the exception of a few, that got a little carried away with it. Not saying what they did was ok, but humiliating a prisoner such as making them stand around naked with bags on their heads would be standard tactics for just about every country out there.

Any country that claims they wouldn't do the same thing is lieing. Any prison in the US and most countries will strip an inmate nude as a attempt to show who is in control and humiliate them. This is standard practice, sleep deprivation is another standard and common tactic with pretty much any country.

Even the guy standing on the box with the wires, I don't agree with that kind of treatment but there is no proof they used shock torture on him. It looked to me, to be a scare tactic, to try to get information from him.

Keep in mind these guys weren't your local baseball coach, these guys were combatants that are trying to kill coalition soldiers after the war has been declared over, these prisoners are terrorists. They are not going to give us information just because we ask nicely and give them milk and hahahahahahas.

I can't stand Bush and I honestly hope rumbfucker gets fired for this, but honestly anybody that sits here and claims there country wouldn't do the same, doesn't know a fucking thing about war. The only difference, is the US is a popular punching bag for the world, so people will grab at anything and run with it as far as possible.

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pussyluver

To say it's about oil is not all together dumb. The US needs to have cheap oil. Our economy, way of life and position as a world power goes to hell as the price goes up. Making sure the US has amble supply is part of the administrations job. That?s if you like it or not. So if the whole reason for Iraq was oil, I?m not so sure that wouldn?t of played as a good reason.

directfiesta

US ready to seize Gulf oil in 1973

Not a new thing... In fact, Iraq had the tacit OK from the US to invade Kuwait, since he was the only regime favorable to the US... But as it often happens with the US, they turned on him ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3333995.stm

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EviLGuY

He is the master of spin alright.. I dont even think he needs help with his double talk anymore.

scoobydookc

The only excuse he should be giving, and no I haven't read his excuse, is the following:

It has been an atrocity. We have learned our lesson, we will no longer allow digital cameras or any kind of video to come out of countries we are at war with. None. Never. Never again.
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That's all he needs to say, are we forgetting this is a fucking war here? When the media went over and started taking pictures of everything in Vietnam they were just as shell-shocked, this is the first real war we've had since that they haven't totally controlled the media or what gets out on tape. This is what happens.

That is all that will be fixed, no matter what they apologize for.

Imagine if someone was there taking pictures in earlier wars, talk about outrage...

Greg B

Scooby, some good points there but from my perch it's not how brutal the photos are but what lead to that level of brutality.

Americans are a violent culture. We're ready to go to war over anything. We have a war on drugs, crime, illiteracy, yadda yadda yadda.

Our lexicon is full of violence:

" We killed them guys in 9 innings! " of " She was murder to look at . " or " That's the bomb! "

We're violent! Our top films and songs are about violence!

Yet when we're faced with how violent we really are we get upset.

That's the caveate and dichotomy.

These pics shouldn't be the controversy. What the controversy should be about is if there was a breakdown in command and lead to a violation of the principles we used to justify the combat in the first place.

So far, we're batting 0. No Bin Laden, no WMDs and now all we've done because of these allegations is given 1 billion pissed off muslims a justification to start as much shit as they want and the world would say we deserved it.

It's up to 'us' the people to put a stop to this and resolve it asap.

Now that the Senate has voted for a full investigation there's no turning back. This will be Bush's darkest hour because when the Senate voted to the volume that they did, that means cans of worms are gonna be opened like no tomorrow.

And all this just before the election. Who's betting they'll find Bin Laden or Bin Laden himself will come strolling up the stairs of the U.N., ask for amnesty which he'll be granted and then rat out the CIA like it ain't no thang.