50 movies.

Yeah they call it Hollywood.

ah so this ENTIRE argument of Michael Moore is a liar comes from the fact of the film not actually being a hahahahahahahahaary, you people make me laugh. typical mindless shit talking, no facts or proof, all this over the thing being called hahahahahahahahaary? show me hIS LIES.

Oh i thought you people meant he actually tells lies, big difference as you seen YET TO PROOVE he lies.

I want to see someone post him telling a lie not semantics over a fucking film category, get real.

SHOW ME SOMETHING.

i want a quote from him telling a lie.

I was thinking more along the lines of the governments office of film and literature / classification review board. etc

I agree with that.
I cant watch hollywood movies anymore. They are so full of shit. Bad story, bad jokes, an happy end you can guess, and a bad...

I HATE THAT!

Thats why I started watching old movies or foreign ones...its deeper, I like movies with some thinking and real characters...

next thing you brainiacs will tell me the movie "Refer Madness,"because its ONLY A MOVIE, is NOT PROPAGANDA.

think again you brainless idiots.

The movie COCAINE FIENDS is also propaganda towards Cocaine

have any of you seen them?

I own the DVDs, propaganda at its finest, Coaine fiends from the 30s.

think on it.

It is beyond me how anyone imagines that Moore's message is weakened because Columbine was labelled a d.o.c.umentary but included opinion (Shock! Horror!). And perhaps those who think it should not have been so labelled, would be kind enough to point to a more appropriate classification?

Navy NCIS and the other gung-ho dramas, now have Al Qa'ida agents popping out from under every stone. These programs would have us believe that we are daily saved from terrorist outrages. This is not propaganda?

You say no, it's entertainment. The producers are doing no more than pandering to the lowest common denominator to sell their shows. Maybe so, but it surely serves as propaganda. This is the closest to reality that millions of Americans ever get.

Such programs reach a far wider audience and do so several times a week. Is everyone who goes crazy whenever someone does present an alternate view, going to pretend they have no impact on public perception? Bullsh*t!

How about mainstream news sources? Are they objective or propagandists? If they were objective, why - in relation to both 911 and Iraq - do they regularly avoid carrying information that appears in foreign media or in non-mainstream US sources? Isn't selective reporting, propaganda? If you choose to call it such...

The validity of information is not affected by the motivation for presenting it, nor the context in which it is presented, nor how it is labelled. If what someone presents as facts are uncomfortable for you: attack their facts!

actually besides Jack and rose Titanic was 100 percent correct.

True or not, they are pretty good movies!

I have Refer Madness. Great cult classic, and pure unabashed propeganda at it's zenith!

you should see COCAINE FIENDS.

its oldr and much more brainwashing.

At one point the guy pulls up next to a school, and says these exact words

"Let me see how much money my kid customers have today" and he is selling cocaine, yeah okay mr drug dealer.

its from the 30s I believe and is way more propaganda than the obvious government funded Reefer Madness ;)

<img src=http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/97/209097.jpg border="1">

1937.

not read the thread yet....BUT
everything is propaganda
the movies just show 'positive' propaganda perhaps

true....

Michael Moore won a Oscar for a d0cumentary that was NOT a d0cumentary. Period........

LMAO! That's brilliant! I'm doing a search to purchase that movie right now if I find it.

:glugglug

jimmyf
the point was not that they are d0cumentaries
but that they are propaganda

I watched Mr. Moore's supposed hahahahahahahahaary...Isn't a hahahahahahahahaary supposed to account facts? All I saw was HIS vision of America's past, and HIS vision of America's future... I saw quotes from leaders and hollywood stars (Charleton Heston namely) taken completely out of text, and perverted to his(Moore's) liking.... He sure did sell a lot of those hahahahahahahahaaries though, but I think majority of it was just curious people like myself, who wanted to see some creative fiction. I think most Americans don't buy into his ANTI-establishment Anti-Everything attitude towards the nation, maybe a few 20 year old hippies in this board who live in 'Sisco, but thats probably it...

Being anti-everything may be popular when your 15, but it doesn't serve much purpose later on in life! so if you are, GOFUCKYOURSELF!!! (.com) :BangBang:

but are not nearly all hahahahahahahaharies told from the point of view of the maker?

There's a difference between telling something from your point of view, and completely distorting the truth.

In regards to the Heston Speech, it was not only out of context, but sentences were split up. He didn't leave off the first and last parts of a paragraph .. Rather he took the begining of one setnence, and the ending of another ..

That's not a point of view, that's twisting facts. If he wanted to use Heston's speech to prove a point, shouldn't he have atleast used what the man actually said?

I don't care for Mr. Moore, but I didn't come away with him being "anti-everything" after watching the film.

Correct you are! But when Moore claims everything in his d0cumentary as facts, which he has done publicly over and over, thats what I have a problem with...


Moore, go make your funny films, and stuff your face with those fucking big macs and shut the fuck up we dont care about your conspiracy bush theories! :-p boooring

Couldn't have said it better myself, the Heston example is just the most obvious, theres plenty others though... I do understand that people are curious and want to see these films, but I think just simply the "curiosity" is what sells him, and thats it.

Precisely :thumbsup

Can you please post these quotes and the proof?

Show the quotes from the original speech and show the edits, how hard can that be?

And no I dont feel like going look for myself, proof?

Listen, Fletch .. I've seen the movie and I've heard the speech. On top of that, I've read the two compared in print. In my mind, I am sure that there was a distortion of the truth in so called factual film Bowling For Columbine.

Normally, I do go to long lengths to prove people wrong. Google searches, links, etc etc ... In your case though, I'm not going to bother. You don't want to debtate anything, you just want to say the same thing over and over.

So believe that Mr. Moore has been honest in his representation of what Mr. Heston had to say. That's your right. You may consider looking up "ignorance" on dictionary.com though.

You can feel free to prove me wrong at any point.

The meeting for the NRA in Denver, unfortunately, came slightly after the Columbine attacks. So, naturally, Moore implies in the film this was purposely done to pour the salt in the wound.. This simply wasn't true, if you had watched the meeting in its entire form, which most people probably didn't as it was extremely boring, you would see that the statement from my "cold dead hands" was so far from what Moore tried to convey it was laughable. The meeting was aired on several news networks back in '99... You could find I'm sure, or at least the transcripts on the net, or you could just believe the Michael Moore's fairytales! lol

I know this

yet no proof can be offered here?

I didnt ask you to debate anything, I simply asked for the quotes you claim are reworded, is that too much to ask? I dont think so, considering its you peoples main point here, show me his lies?

I have already said, EVERYONE IS A LIAR and I dont believe Heston OR you. Which is why I am asking for proof, yet all I get is, you telling me to look up the word "ignorant" in the dictionary, I know what the word means, and the more I ask for proof in this thread the more I understand the word.

MY "right" as you put it, is to inquire about what you claim to be fact, all I am asking for is the quotes, i guess this is too much to ask.

see thats the thing, I dont want to argue with you, I dont care to debate.

I asked you to show me these lies you claim, I asked you to show me his rewording, and all I get in return is "

you are ignorant, go look it up, and you can argue my point any time you want"

Am I supposed to take YOUR word about this? Someone called "War CHILD" on a board?

yeah okay, either show me the proof or drop it.

Thats not asking much, show me the quotes. Which is ALL I ASKED, I am not here to debate with you, I want to see YOUR side of the argyument.

Fletch,

I'm interested in this too. Someone prove to us that Michael Moore "pieced together" speeches or something like that so I don't have to go look it up ;-)

Thats not asking much, show me the quotes. Which is ALL I ASKED, I am not here to debate with you, I want to see YOUR side of the argyument. [/B][/QUOTE]





No proof on me...I must be lying, with a name like CrowIsAHoe! ;-) Michael Moore must be right, jesus christ what was I thinking! Thanks for setting me straight bro!

I agree. Moore says a lot of things that people disagree with or don't want to hear. Moore says a lot of things that people agree with and do want to hear. He takes a stand and does not back down. He drives his points home with a sledge hammer, but with that strength of attack he focuses on his specific target and nails it. Have to give the man credit even if you don't agree with his views, he is very good at what he does.

Fletch XXX what "War CHILD" posted about the movie and what Heston said was posted on this board months ago. I don't blame "War CHILD" for not looking it up either, it was months ago. if the search works look it up or do it on Google.

No proof on me...I must be lying, with a name like CrowIsAHoe! ;-) Michael Moore must be right, jesus christ what was I thinking! Thanks for setting me straight bro! [/B][/QUOTE]

I wasnt even talking to you.

Have no clue who you are and dont care.

Do try to pay attention

with names like "High On Acid, War Child, and Crow Is A hoe"

its easy to guess what you three spend your time doing

My point is if you plan on using it as your main arguepioint, you should be ready to defend it, I have YET to see it happen.

Ive read all the stupid pages this guy has read, I want to see him lay it down for me.

Everyone from peaches to him have said "he is a liar" its easy to market things when you lie"

hahaha all this because its called a hahahahahahahahaary?

So now this guy brings up actually rewording and splicing of words.

Id like to see proof, i guess now that YOU say it exists, War CHild is right? hahaha

sorry guy, it takes more than a pack of guys opn a message board to sway my vote.

I wasnt even talking to you.

Have no clue who you are and dont care.

Do try to pay attention

with names like "High On Acid, War Child, and Crow Is A hoe"

its easy to guess what you three spend your time doing [/B][/QUOTE]


ok ok, here's one link i dug up! Jeezuz u people are relentless! and here's the actual speech given by Heston in 99'.

"Thank you. Thank you very much. Good morning. I am very happy to welcome you to this abbreviated annual gathering of the National Rifle Association. Thank you all for coming and thank you for supporting your organization. I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today. Or course, you have a right to be here. As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. As your president, I apologize for that. But it's fitting and proper that we should do this. Because NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means that whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity. I have a message from the mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the mayor of Denver. He sent me this and said don't come here, we don't want you here. I said to the mayor, well, my reply to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing. But the mayor said not to come. I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry for the newspaper ads saying the same thing, don't come here. This is our country. As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land.They say we'll create a media distraction, but we were preceded here by hundreds of intrusive news crews. They say we'll create political distraction, but it's not been the NRA pressing for political advantage, calling press conferences to propose vast packages of new legislation. Still they say don't come here. I guess what saddens me the most is how that suggests complicity. It implies that you and I and 80 million honest gun owners are somehow to blame, that we don't care. We don't care as much as they do, or that we don't deserve to be as shocked and horrified as every other soul in America mourning for the people of Littleton. Don't come here. That's offensive. It's also absurd because we live here. There are thousands of NRA members in Denver, and tens upon tens of thousands in the state of Colorado. NRA members labor in Denver's factories, they populate Denver's faculties, run Denver corporations, play on Colorado sports teams, work in media across the Front Range, parent and teach and coach Denver's children, attend Denver's churches and proudly represent Denver in uniform on the world's oceans and in the skies over Kosovo at this very moment. NRA members are in city hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surely among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students at Columbine. Don't come here? We're already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross section of American life imaginable. So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy. One more thing. Our words and our behavior will be scrutinized more than ever this morning. Those who are hostile towards us will lie in wait to seize on a soundbite out of context, ever searching for an embarrassing moment to ridicule us. So, let us be mindful. The eyes of the nation are upon us today."


Want more proof? I guess I can google more but your boring me

link from previous post here

and this is proof of what? That heston gave a speech.

bravo, his fragile ass wont live much longer, if he is even still alive.

No can you show me where the splices are?

Fine, I'll waste some more of my day on you Fletch.

Here are an example of the types of lies Michael Moore spins.


But Jan Jacobson, the bank employee who worked with Mr. Moore on his account, says that only happened because Mr. Moore's film company had worked for a month to stage the scene. "What happened at the bank was a prearranged thing," she says. The gun was brought from a gun dealer in another city, where it would normally have to be picked up. "Typically, you're looking at a week to 10 days waiting period," she says. Ms. Jacobson feels used: "He just portrayed us as backward hicks."

Source: http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110003233

Michael Moore's response:

When you see me going in to the bank and walking out with my new gun in "Bowling for Columbine" ? that is exactly as it happened. Nothing was done out of the ordinary other than to phone ahead and ask permission to let me bring a camera in to film me opening up my account. I walked into that bank in northern Michigan for the first time ever on that day in June 2001, and, with cameras rolling, gave the bank teller $1,000 ? and opened up a 20-year CD account.

Source: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

Somebody's not telling the truth here. I tend to believe the bank employee. He has no reason to lie to us. Michael Moore, however, has a bank account full of reasons to lie about his "d0cumentary".

"Cut to Charleton Heston holding a musket over his head and happily proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands" to a cheering NRA crowd. Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore in voiceover intones: Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charleston Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association. Heston (supposedly) continues speech... "Good Morning. Thank you all for coming, and thank you for supporting your organization. I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today." [Footage of protest outside] "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. [picture of Webb, then back to Heston]He sent me this, and said 'don't come here. We don't want you here.' I said to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land.[cut to crowd cheering, then back to Heston] Don't come here? We're already here."

Where does he lie?

Proof of what? What have we been talking about for the last 10 FUCKING posts?? Statements taken COMPLETELY out of context, and morphed to Moore's fantasies. Read the speech, it was asked for, so here you all go.... As you see the lines in that speech, cold dead hands, it has absolutely no reference to Columbine or anything like that....

I'm not even sure what your arguing about here..... You Moore's butt-buddy or something? heh, gotta go, watching Spurs play, later!

Sounds to me like some people just don't like the way his film was edited.

The other argument I have seen was some stupid debate on the title and the bowling class and whether the kids attended class that day or not... nothing actually calling him a liar or making any sort of real case, just dumb facts mixed up.

Again, no one shows where he tells lies.

Yor choice to believe some bank teller who risks losing their job over shit like this over a film maker who LEGALLY has to have permits and certain restrictions lifted to film/

Thats it, now I KNOW im dealing with kids who know nothing.

Of course it was prerigged, have any of you worked on a movie set?

You cant simply walk in a start filming, it was opre set up and he needed a license to shoot. They shoot movies here all the time and they come to my door and ASK and to INFORM me they are shooting.

Again, no one has showed LIES, simply a bank tellers word against his.?

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No CHILD, I dont even Like Moore really.

I find it startlingly hilarious that you boys cant back up your points with anything mroe than...

"THE BANK TELLER SAID THIS AND THAT"

HAHAHA

there is a difference between people making a movie that is entertainment (i.e. The last Samurai, Titanic etc) and acknowledging it as such and those people making movies who distort and twist the truth and represent those distortions and lies as "the truth".

its sort of pathetic when people can't distinguish between the two.

according to your logic, Star Wars - Attack of the Clones "is a lie" and people are idiots for not "getting it".

Is this Colins flame nick?

hahaha

Try reading the thread before joining in.

:thumbsup

:1orglaugh k :1orglaugh

So he called the bank to tell them he would be bringing in a camera ahead of time, well duh.

The chick that helped him now says they don't usually have the guns there, from the article linked above, "Typically, you're looking at a week to 10 days waiting period,"... and there is your "lie"

Sounds like they had some in stock that day. :1orglaugh

Hey as I said, next thing brainiacs are going to start saying is because "REEFER MADNESS" is JUST A MOVIE, its not propaganda.

hahaha

I ALWAYS call it like it is beforeheand

:thumbsup

I fail to grasp how one cannot see the difference between a film like The Last Samurai and Bowling For Columbine or Roger and Me. One was made to send a message and express a point of view as being "the correct view", One was made as entertainment.

What is the message in The Last Samurai again? I might have missed it.. i thought it was just entertainment.

Are you fucking stupid? Since you are going to assume I am a child, I am going to assume you're retarded. Fair is fair.

You agree with me that it was prestaged. You said it yourself.

Michael Moore disagrees with us both. Here are HIS words:

Nothing was done out of the ordinary other than to phone ahead and ask permission to let me bring a camera in to film me opening up my account.

Michael Moore is leading us to believe, with his words, that you, I, or anyone else can walk in to that bank, and walk out 1 hour later with a gun. Simple as that.

This is not true. If you, or I go and ask for a gun, it'll take 10 days. If we want to make a hahahahahahahahaary about it, and we phone ahead and set it all up for the cameras ... Then yes we can get a gun from a bank in 1 hour.

How can you NOT see this as at very least bending the truth?

Come on.