http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4534274/

all you need to know about O'Neill and Swoop's organization.

but MSNBC is a liberal biased publication right? :1orglaugh

None of these guys ever say anything about what Kerry did in Vietnam, they're all pissed about what he said afterward. The Bushites try to spin that into something disreputable about his service.

Dude, two words: My Lai.

They did kill babies. Lots of them.

Ever hear of the My Lai massacre?

504 unarmed women, children and elderly people murdered in one day by US troops.

and we've learned in the time since Vietnam that everything he said was true, right? Telling the truth is siding with the enemy? Only for conservatives who want to believe that everyone smart enough to oppose our actions in Iraq are traitors.

Cowards hide behind the banner of Patriotism.

Damn Dig I have missed you:)

Get me on ICQ some time:)

it would be good to catch up with ya:thumbsup

Don't forget the wholesale use of chemical weapons (Agent Orange) on the Ho Chi Minh trail.

A true patriot stands up when he thinks his country is doing the wrong thing and says so. It takes more guts and more love of country to tell your government it's fucking up in a time of war than it does to wave a flag and go along with it, right or wrong.

If these guys were in charge in 1776 we'd still be pledging allegiance to the queen.

I gave you his simple explanation, it is up to you and the American public to decide whether to accept or deny its validity.

:Graucho

Oh, so all those who served in Vietnam killed babies, and murdered women?

<I>SEN. KERRY: There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.</I>

There is such a thing as an illegal order, following such orders make you a criminal, excuses are like assholes, everyone has one.

election years like this really suck - ive always voted third party because look at these two immature cocksuckers. but because i dont want bush for another 4 years, ill probably have to shitcan my 3rd party vote.

kerry and bush are both full of shit. clinton and bush sr. were full of shit. bob dole full of shit. abe lincoln full of shit. gore full of shit.if the majority of americans werent such sheep we might have more choice in our leaders

yep, and Kerry and a shitload of other soldiers could be arrested for what they did there. Again, this isn't something in dispute. Right-wingers aren't mad at him for killing people in Vietnam, they're mad at him for coming back and talking about it. So what's your point?

his simple explanation is that he didn't get court-martialed, therefore he must not have been AWOL.

This is good enough for you? The same guys who are looking under every rock for something to take away Kerry's war hero status? All Bush has to do is say so and that's good enough for you eh?

Truth is, you don't care whether Bush was awol or not. You'll vote for him anyway. There's really nothing that anyone could find out about Bush that would change your mind, because like I said earlier, you never had any kind of intellectual process you went thru before you decided you liked him in the first place. All you care about is not being a hippy :1orglaugh

Well seeing as he all but admitted he is a "war criminal" by definition and this is something you'd like to see in the white house? Give Saddam a call I hear his calenders clean for the next four years.

I think there has been lots of talk on the news about him saying he commited attrocities whilst in vietnam, and that he called his fellow soldiers baby killers, perhaps you missed it?

yep, he cared enough about his country to fight for it, and then he cared enough about his country to come back and say we were fighting an unjust war in an unwinnable manner.

I didn't miss his comments. Perhaps you missed the part where I said that everything he said is undeniably true?

It's interesting how a "spontaneous" group of Veterans got together in Washington D.C. today to "denounce" Kerry. They were "outraged" by his anti-war comments and felt they were portrayed as war criminals. Of course, there was the "and I don't think he'd make a good president."

Same thing happened to John McCain when he was running against Bush for the Republican nomination in 2000.

If they were SO outraged..why the hell did they wait for THIRTY years before they called a news conference to condemn Kerry?

Come back to the Present...

Its all happening again...
And you still insist that Bush is the right man...

Oh I do? I don't approve of either, it's always the same come election day - the lesser of two evils.
Jesse Ventura said it is almost impossible to get elected in this country without being a member of the republicans, or the democratic party - and the constitution didn't say anything about only a member of either party could be elected.

This year the merits of most people voting will be to stop one of the them from winning, hardly the thing the forefathers had in mind.

Look dig,

Anything Karl Rove tells me I believe, after all Bush is a God-fearing everyday man from Texas and Kerry is the New England St Paul / Yale / Bonesman elitist!

Haven't you been watching Bush in the cowboy hat routine?

jeez.

Goto agree with that:thumbsup

They did not wait 30 years they were on 60 minutes 3 or 4 years ago denouncing him as a war criminal. They shot up a village full of women and children.

:Graucho

oh not just then, they've been bashing Kerry ever since Nixon sicced them on him. Do you read anyone else's posts or just type on autopilot?

ok you convinced me :)

It's ironic to me that a guy named buff who's spouting right wing propaganda is telling me that I should open my mind when he's so brain washed by closed minded conservatives he felt the need to libel a decorated war vetran who's running for president on a adult buisness message board.

I'm close minded? Right, and the person you're helping by posting this ficticious claim is an open minded Bible thumper with a heart of gold. Go fuck yourself, stupid.

Vote4Kerry

That this Dr. Louis Letson was the doctor of record is being questioned at this point. In addition any wound that requires treatment (SOP is to order a person to be treated to avoid infection) no matter how minor makes one eligible for the Purple Heart.

it seems Kerry's public image isn't any better

John O?Neill has been a nemesis of Senator Kerry since the '60's. He makes...what I consider to be incredible statments. An example would be from last night during an interview. He said that a Commanding Officer of Kerry's for a period of three weeks...said that he did not approve Kerry's 1st Purple Heart because he felt that it was a "self inflicted" wound. Yet that same Commanding Officer in a report praised Kerry with the highest of laurel's. Most...if not all...Commanding Officers who thought that...even the lowest of ranking personell under their Command...had self inflicted a wound would have made out some kind of report...and if it were an Officer he would certainly be negligent in the performance of his duty not to do so...and to order/request that the Officer in question be removed from his Command. So I call John O?Neill's statements BS.

I'd rather vote for a dead dog than George Bush...so Kerry doesn't look that bad right now.

Bingo. Well said. I can't believe the audacity of the right wing to bring this shit up when their guy was fucking off somewhere on supposed National Guard duty and our invisible Vice President Cheney was getting another student deferment.
Desparation breeds this type of nonsense.

Klinton was war hero, Bush was war hero now and this guy :)

What a bunch of crap-
Some right wingers are claiming that Kerry wasn't injured badly enough to deserve the Purple Heart-
But NOBODY is disputing the fact that he rescued a Green Beret soldier from the Bay Hap River in Vietnam while wounded and under heavy enemy fire.

I'd like to hear of 1 single time when Bush ever showed any courage in his life- ( Oh yeah- He stopped getting drunk every night when he turned 40 - How courageous ).
As far as his calling some of the other soldiers over there "Baby killers", hasn't anyone here ever heard of the My Lai Massacre ?
http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/M/My-Lai-massacre.htm

I hope they continue to question Kerry's courage because it invites comparisons between his bravery and our Chickenhawk presidents complete lack of the same.

Just don't vote...

I'm not a conservative, you leftard dipshit. And Kerry is an admitted war criminal -- that's what you want for President -- a person who has admitted to committing war atrocities??? You leftards are so stupid you flip flop back and forth between 5 sides of a 2 sided issue.

False. In most cases the wound has to be imposed by the enemy. Not "any" wound.

He checked a fucking box on a standard form and like he and other commanders did for just about everyone who served, he checked the highest box. It's not like he wrote an essay saying Kerry was a good soldier. He simple put a check in a box. Anyone who has been a soldier, sailor, airman, or marine knows what these evaluation forms look like, and they don't mean a whole lot.

You are correct...and I made the mistake of not specifying a wound received via the enemy...as I assumed that it would be assumed.

I spent 12 years in the Army so I am fully aware of how an eval works and what they mean...and you are wrong when you say they do not mean a whole lot. If an Officer gets less than a perfect eval...it may very well be a career ender...and I suggest that most...if not all Commanding Officers would give less than a perfect eval if they in fact believed that a subordinate Officer self inflicted a wound. I also suggest that most if not all Commanding Officers would ask for that Officer to be removed from their command and at the least would be derelict in their duty if they did not at least make some kind of report about said Officer.

how many purple hearts do you have again? superficial wounds or not?



oh yeah, none! :thumbsup

You and I both know that most people get "satisfactory" or better on every single review even though most people are abject shitbags. So don't give me that shit. At the time he gave the eval, he hadn't even been in the fucking unit for a month -- how could he give a superior review??? It's all just going through the motions.

One. I have One (1) Purple Heart. I received it for a bullet wound in Central America in 1994. How about the next time you open your dicksucker, you do something useful with it, like fill it with a cock.