So what does everything think about the Iraqi prisoner photos and shit?

[Digipimp]

The report seems to say some really bad things and make these seem not small isolated cases but a larger scale happening on this bullshit. It also seems like they have video of it that's about to make its way to the public.

I personally find it fucking disgusting what they did to the Iraqis in that prison and wherever else. As disgusting as I find it what they're done to our people at different times before.

So what do all of you think about it?

[Triple 6]

fuck it

[DR_PHIL]

life sucks..if they werent being abused, they would be starving anyway

[gazool]

I will judge no one from behind my screen in my safe home with flowers, birds, beaches and CocaCola and shit all around me...

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by gazool
I will judge no one from behind my screen in my safe home with flowers, birds, beaches and CocaCola and shit all around me...

ah so there might actually be some justification for making them all get naked and stack up in a pyramid

[gazool]

Originally posted by Digipimp
ah so there might actually be some justification for making them all get naked and stack up in a pyramid

Oh you are quick with the finger eyh?


Didn't say that...
I guess that you want to be a grown up and make your own conclusion about it - well.. go ahead...

[Mikey_219Inc]

gazool makes a valid point ... its ez to play couch quarterback. i blame the higher ranking officers, all the way up to George Dubya.

it doesnt take a genius to know that 18 year old soldiers were blowing up frogs with m-80's when they were 14. they feel proud to have "won" - they have been indoctrinated to think of these people as ONLY "the enemy" ... now the higher ups say "these soldiers let us down"

bullshit - you let them down. they dont have enough support over there, and if they are handling prisoners this way, there is a lack of supervision by a mature higher ranking official, and a lack of training from the day they entered boot camp.

when i was their age, i couldnt find my ass with both hands and a road map. when something fucks up - its the bosses fault. poor management.

[Cassie]

only two bad things came out of those photos:

1. the soldiers got caught
2. the soldiers have shown they have now stooped to the levels of the people they are trying to protect.

other then that, i have zero empathy for the captives. boo hoo! we have people dying over there to protect their unappreciative asses (regardless of who ordered these soldiers to protect them and regardless of public opinion on whether or not we should be there). as i stated someplace else, american's were once again dragged through the streets of a foreign country they are trying to help.

feel badly? as if!

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by gazool
Oh you are quick with the finger eyh?


Didn't say that...
I guess that you want to be a grown up and make your own conclusion about it - well.. go ahead...

there are a lot of things about war that i wouldn't feel comfortable judging without being there such as innocents being killed in the middle of a battle or whatever it might be. this just seems to me that with these pics there is just no possible justification so that's easy to judge and comment on.

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by Mikey_219Inc
gazool makes a valid point ... its ez to play couch quarterback. i blame the higher ranking officers, all the way up to George Dubya.

it doesnt take a genius to know that 18 year old soldiers were blowing up frogs with m-80's when they were 14. they feel proud to have "won" - they have been indoctrinated to think of these people as ONLY "the enemy" ... now the higher ups say "these soldiers let us down"

bullshit - you let them down. they dont have enough support over there, and if they are handling prisoners this way, there is a lack of supervision by a mature higher ranking official, and a lack of training from the day they entered boot camp.

when i was their age, i couldnt find my ass with both hands and a road map. when something fucks up - its the bosses fault. poor management.

the only thing is it isn't those young boys who are doing this as much. it's reservists who are in their late 20's and early 30's. and being allowed to by the higher ups, but even so, just because a higher up doesn't stop you it's so fucking obvious what you're doing is wrong you've got no excuse.

and cassie if anything i'm disappointed in you, who said to feel sympathy for people that were fighting against us. rather i said this is just fucking wrong and disgusting what some of our soldiers engaged in, equally as disgusting as when our enemies do it to our boys.

[Cassie]

what i should have added to my reply was:

if these people weren't being held, do you think what is being done to them, they wouldn't be doing to their own people (ie, torture and then death)? do you think, if the tables were turned, they wouldn't be doing this to OUR people over there (or mayb3 they have and we don't know about it yet)? maybe they would serve them hahahahahahas and milk while playing a game of scrabble.....ha.

these "people" being held are not good guys. they were not protecting the people of their country. what they are, are monsters that would not hesitate to blow off the heads of their fellow man. they are monsters who would throw our soldiers/civilians in a cell someplace and let them rot and then die.

as much as i think this was over played, lets not forget Lynch. lets not forget the hundreds of others that were killed (execution style for some of them no less). do we have the right to judge, probably not because we are not over there but we do have the right to voice our opinion.


digi: disgusting....yeah i will give you that. however, try to put the shoe on the other foot and feel what these soldiers, who do not want to be there, are feeling. especially when they are trying to do good and are getting shit on. you and your personality would not be tolerant of such bs...that i am sure of. all diplomacy and civility would fly out the hahahahahaha if you were their.

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by Cassie
what i should have added to my reply was:

if these people weren't being held, do you think what is being done to them, they wouldn't be doing to their own people (ie, torture and then death)? do you think, if the tables were turned, they wouldn't be doing this to OUR people over there (or mayb3 they have and we don't know about it yet)? maybe they would serve them hahahahahahas and milk while playing a game of scrabble.....ha.

these "people" being held are not good guys. they were not protecting the people of their country. what they are, are monsters that would not hesitate to blow off the heads of their fellow man. they are monsters who would throw our soldiers/civilians in a cell someplace and let them rot and then die.

as much as i think this was over played, lets not forget Lynch. lets not forget the hundreds of others that were killed (execution style for some of them no less). do we have the right to judge, probably not because we are not over there but we do have the right to voice our opinion.

wow i'm even more disappointed now. i don't think you can ever justify doing something wrong just because someone else is doing something wrong.

[gazool]

I think that given the right circumstances, many people would find them selves doing shit like that.
And yes, I do think that it is shit, no doubt about that.

However? I don?t feel that I have all the parameters to judge upon Private DumDum being pulled into this by the group, and excitement and relief of victory and grief of lost friends and so on.

The discipline It has to come from above!

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by gazool
I think that given the right circumstances, many people would find them selves doing shit like that.
And yes, I do think that it is shit, no doubt about that.

However? I don?t feel that I have all the parameters to judge upon Private DumDum being pulled into this by the group, and excitement and relief of victory and grief of lost friends and so on.

The discipline It has to come from above!

i disagree to a certain degree. of course the discipline comes from above, but within reason you already know there's just no reason to do something no matter whether the people above you say so or not.

slapping an iraqi prisoner around just a little maybe, grabbing him pushing him, threatening and so on alright maybe. but getting them naked, pissing on them, stacking them up on top of each others, posing while pointing at their dicks, regardless whether your superiors told you it's alright there's just no fucking way you're not smart enough to know that's not right on your own and if you are you shouldn't be in the military with a gun.

[gazool]

Originally posted by Digipimp
i disagree to a certain degree. of course the discipline comes from above, but within reason you already know there's just no reason to do something no matter whether the people above you say so or not.

slapping an iraqi prisoner around just a little maybe, grabbing him pushing him, threatening and so on alright maybe. but getting them naked, pissing on them, stacking them up on top of each others, posing while pointing at their dicks, regardless whether your superiors told you it's alright there's just no fucking way you're not smart enough to know that's not right on your own and if you are you shouldn't be in the military with a gun.

Ever saw the Vietnam movie starring Sean Penn and Michael J. Fox?
Shouldn't he just have emptied his gun in the face of the rest of his platoon then?

( Casualties Of War )

As said... it is totally fucked up to do something like that.. when you want to be the savoirs of the free world. - we agree on that!

The Danes have Iraq prisoners as well?
They have doctors; MP?s and peoples rights with them when they inspect the prisoners.

You don?t see shit like that from the Danish soldiers in Iraq? This can be due to many things? but one thing is for sure? They couldn?t do it, even if they wanted to ? because of to much control from MP and stuff like that!

[Digipimp]

i'm proud of the soldiers that turned these guys in for doing this.

surely those of you that have no sympathy and seem to think the iraqis were getting what they deserved, i suppose you think the us soldiers that turned the guys in that were doing this are traitors ,do you?

[gazool]

Originally posted by Digipimp
i'm proud of the soldiers that turned these guys in for doing this.

surely those of you that have no sympathy and seem to think the iraqis were getting what they deserved, i suppose you think the us soldiers that turned the guys in that were doing this are traitors ,do you?

I don't !
I think that they did the right thing...
The madness has to stop at the earliest point possible.

[TurboAngel]

I think the pics were highly offensive to me. I don't know if anyone is aware that there were some offensive pic that came from the Vietnam war, my best friends dad had a whole book full of pic of the people he killed over there. He would ask anyone who came over if they wanted to see all the pics of people he killed over there. I for one can say I couldn't see them but I think they were by far more horrendous than the pics we were shown from Iraq.


My grandfather was in WWII, he was a prisoner of war and they did some horrible things to him. When he was saved and came back to the US he had to have a glass eye because they had pulled his eyeball out. So I think that it's unfortunate the troops did what they did but WTF why anyone would take pics of it?

[Digipimp]

well it's one thing to take pics of someone you killed in a battle, i mean it's understandable that person got killed. taking the pics is sick but it's different than taking people who are in a prison have been captured and are no longer armed and then subjecting them to this bullshit just for your own entertainment.

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by Digipimp
the only thing is it isn't those young boys who are doing this as much. it's reservists who are in their late 20's and early 30's. and being allowed to by the higher ups, but even so, just because a higher up doesn't stop you it's so fucking obvious what you're doing is wrong you've got no excuse.

and cassie if anything i'm disappointed in you, who said to feel sympathy for people that were fighting against us. rather i said this is just fucking wrong and disgusting what some of our soldiers engaged in, equally as disgusting as when our enemies do it to our boys.

What do you expect?

I don't like to see it...but seriously what do you expect?

Do you realize the kind of training these people go through?

Not just Military Intelligence but your basic soldier.

They are taught to be able to cross that line most of us will not cross..and that is to kill another human being.

In order to do that you can't really look at what you're killing as another human being but rather as an object.

There was a very interesting hahahahahahahahaary on either TLC or Discovery about the training of our soldiers changed right around Korea and that through most wars/conflicts before the number of people who actually fired their weapon was really low...until Vietnam.

The training was so "efficient," that the numbers *I can't quote them because it's been awhile* went from something like only 20-25% fired their weapons to over 70-80% in Vietnam.

Anyway, these people are killers. They have to be. Now leave them in charge of the people they are supposed to kill and look at what happens.

This is why those in power should have been more responsible.

That one Brig General claming she couldn't inspect the very prison she was in charge of becaue MI wouldn't let her..but yet her soldiers who worked there could roam at will...bullshit.

The blame starts at the top..then shit rolls down hill from there..but it starts at the top.

[slackologist]

It's fucked.. those involved and their superiors need severe discipline.. atleast to set an example to other mindfucked cannon fodder rejects that may behave this way. War may fuck your brain, but you are failing in your duty when you behave in this manner and that is something that should not be taken lightly.

[Digipimp]

i think something most of you are missing is that the blame falls from the top when you are doing something maybe borderline, but when you are doing something so obviously wrong it all falls on you. as well many of you are forgetting most of this was done by reservists, not our young active duty soldiers. the reservists are mostly in their late 20's and early 30's

[TurboAngel]

My Dad is the Director of a VA hospital in South Carolina what drove him to get a job where he can help the Vet's from the war and make sure they got better health care when they came home.


He wasn't happy with how his dad had been treated when he came back from WWII so he went to school and became the youngest director of a VA hospital in history. He has now been with the VA for 30 years.

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by Digipimp
i think something most of you are missing is that the blame falls from the top when you are doing something maybe borderline, but when you are doing something so obviously wrong it all falls on you. as well many of you are forgetting most of this was done by reservists, not our young active duty soldiers. the reservists are mostly in their late 20's and early 30's

The training is still the same, and it falls at the top and stays there...because if you think this was going on without no one knowing it then you're kidding yourself.

Those in charge turned a blind eye, there is complicity in their silence, and in their purported ignorance.

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
The training is still the same, and it falls at the top and stays there...because if you think this was going on without no one knowing it then you're kidding yourself.

Those in charge turned a blind eye, there is complicity in their silence, and in their purported ignorance.

i still disagree with you. the top deserves blame for not stopping it but there's no excuse when you're doing something so wrong even if your superiors don't stop you.

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by Digipimp
i still disagree with you. the top deserves blame for not stopping it but there's no excuse when you're doing something so wrong even if your superiors don't stop you.

No as I stated before...it begins at the top then shit rolls down hill.

They should be punished...but for the person in charge of this prison to claim they couldn't get access to those areas because military intelligence wouldn't allow it even though underlings were allowed is just bullshit.

[genomega]

Yep, these were national guard men and women not the regular army. They need a lot more supervision.

[slackologist]

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
The training is still the same, and it falls at the top and stays there...because if you think this was going on without no one knowing it then you're kidding yourself.

Those in charge turned a blind eye, there is complicity in their silence, and in their purported ignorance.

as much as i dislike bush, cheney and war inc, i doubt this is about a request for a new screensaver.. i dont think blame should travel far beyond the few links in the chain directly above those seen in the film.. unless there is some further evidence.

[Mikey_219Inc]

Originally posted by Digipimp
i think something most of you are missing is that the blame falls from the top when you are doing something maybe borderline, but when you are doing something so obviously wrong it all falls on you. as well many of you are forgetting most of this was done by reservists, not our young active duty soldiers. the reservists are mostly in their late 20's and early 30's

I just plain disagree. I was disgusted by the guy who said at the press conference "these soldiers let us down" ... bullshit. It's just like a business - if you dont have enough mgmt, or if your mgmt sucks, your grunts are gonna fuck up. Part of making this a successful campaign is appearing to be liberators not scumbags, and for the high ranking fucking scumbags who send people in the heat of action to die say "they let us down" ... i say fuck you to these pen-pushing assholes. Yes a soldier is trained to cross the line of killing, but obviously public opinion and propaganda is a major part of war these days - soldiers need to be trained properly. face it - a soldier should be taught that doing shit like this is not kosher - and someone higher up should have been there to bitchslap whoever came up with the stupid fucking idea. how about G Dubya - lets send his ass over there in the battlefield since he wanted to invade iraq.

[devilspost]

All these people haze each other. If you ever saw the 60 minutes (or 20/20) program on "pinning" you get an idea of what kind of shit goes on.

Even worse than the pics they showed.

[Goose]

I'm feeling sad, ok it's war, but this is not an excuse for everything. I hope the responsibles will pay for that!

[jayeff]

Originally posted by Digipimp
i still disagree with you. the top deserves blame for not stopping it but there's no excuse when you're doing something so wrong even if your superiors don't stop you.

I completely agree. Without discipline and supervision, a soldier may not keep his gun clean. But degrading people as was done here: that is something no-one should need to tell you is wrong.

But is that true? In this part of the mid-west, bullying starts at school and is alive and almost a form of entertainment in the local bars on Saturday nights. There are plenty of wives and girlfriends around here who could confirm it only takes a couple of Bud Lights for a lot of men to lose their veneer of self-control.

Now imagine them in a position of having victims who can't fight back at all...

No excuses tho. I hope they are punished much more severely than at present seems likely. And their superiors with them...