The draft was first instituted during the Civil War and has stood the test of the court and it is the court that determines what is constitutional and what is not.

Can you really see another draft as a possibility? I can't see how Americans would stand for one again. Surely they'd have to be coerced by the govt and I don't really want to think about how that would work out.<br><BR>

If anyone can stand for the 'war on terror' that will most likely be going on another 100 years or so then i'd say that they should also 'stand' for the draft.

Yes, maybe so.

But the constitution determines what is constitutional and what is not. Just because a few guys with powdered wigs sit on high chairs and pass judgment on things they often neither understand nor are capable of comprehending

Today's Supreme Court - when filled with the type conservative Republican nutcases that Bush has chosen to fill it with - doesn't even apply the constitutional principles of the constitution. Instead, they do what is politically correct, expedient and inexpensive and/or profitable for them.

I will add that anyone who ever said "let's get Sadam" should be the first drafted. Put you ass where you mouth is(in the enemies face).

But anyone who doesn't drum up violence and respects other cultures has my blessing if they dodge the draft.

I just think it's time for blabber mouth trouble starters to put their ass on the line for a change.

To the best of my knowledge President Bush has not made any Supreme Court appointments. None the less whoever sits on the Supreme Court at any given point in time determines what laws are constitutional and what laws do not stand the test. What is criminal and what is not criminal and they have taken the position that doging the draft is a criminal act.

Some people choose to be law abiding citizens...some people choose to be criminals.

What is a country but a place that is home to a community of people? There would be no services in a country if its people didn't work and pay taxes. There would be no culture without people. Whether a country is a democracy or a dictatorship is determined by its people. And so on.

In other words, everything that makes a country more than a piece of land, all of what you describe as benefits, are provided by the people themselves. Day in day out, simply by living, doing what we do, thinking as we do, we define our country.

Even when military action is necessary to defend a country, the troops have to be armed and fed. There must be a country worth coming back to when the fighting is over. There is never a time when the only way to serve is in uniform.

Your kind of statement is emotive rhetoric intended to make people feel guilty about speaking out when they perceive that peoples' lives are being spent, not in defense of country, but in pursuit of political ideology or personal gain.

Since theking thinks he is better than us (smut mongers being the bottom of the totem pole per his words) anyone having discourse with him is muddying his feet up.

King *I* think you fell off the back of that truck on purpose, to hurt yourself just so you didn't have to peel any more potatoes for the real fighting men. Didn't like mucking about with the 'common man' or something?! Or just see the chance for a life of leisure on your huge 'pension'. lmao

Why not stick your head in the toilet and flush repeatedly... it might clear your mind.

If you had that attitude in service as a combat soldier, they would have brought you home ziplocked.

People have every right to speak out in this country but they do not have every right to break the law or to incite others to do so. Registering for the draft is a law...and violating that law is a criminal act. Thus I repeat some choose to be criminals...most do not. I do not have anything but contempt for criminals.

Ah...those seated in the gallery...weigh in. You can think what you like. I do not have any idea what "truck" you are talking about...are you related to Charly by chance?

I was Airborne Infantry my entire 12 years of service...was an E-7 Platoon Sgt. when I left the Army. FYI peeling potatoes (KP) has not been in place since just about the time the all Volunteer Army came into being. FYI...I almost came home in a hahahaha bag on more than one occasion...and really wish that I had...instead of being in my current physical state...thank you very much.

Exactly what does any of that have to do with the words of yours that I quoted, or my response to them?

Freedom of speech wasn't mentioned. Breaking the law or inciting others to do so wasn't mentioned. The draft wasn't mentioned.

You're a hypocritical wannabe that barely makes it as a keyboard warrior. Sgt the BEST you could do in 12 yrs?!?! Wow!

Whyn't take your too good for us attitude and go somewhere that might like you. The more I think about your comments of a couple of nights ago, the sicker I get watching you spew.

So what WAS your CK? And I'm not talking about the 'Depends' that you went thru when you heard live fire from a few miles behind the line or at the staging areas.

You do Dubya proud with all your twisted logic. Oh and just FYI... *I* do not need Charly or feel the need to back him up with you. A 12 yo has you outwitted in most cases.

Pay close attention to "speaking out".

FYI...E-7 is right on the career track and ahead of some and an E-7 is a Senior NCO.

I go where I please...thank you very much.

What I did...or did not do is not any of your business...now is it...and besides it has been stated before multiple times.

To bad you are not equal to a 12 year old. You are fucking dismissed oh mighty Amazon Huntress.

uh huh.. breaking the law usually is.
Even those criminals serving in the U.S military and fighting in wars for the nation instead of doing time behind bars?

Those with criminal records are not allowed the previlige of serving their country in uniform.

Even certain misdemeanors can deny one the previlige of serving in uniform.

Hmm...mispelled previlege twice in a row. One Budweiser to many tonight I guess.

Well i may be mistaken or have incorrect information but i'm sure i've seen atleast one post by someone here about a relative serving in Iraq after choosing to join the military rather than do time.

Any such story...is BS...posted by someone that does not know anything about the military. No felony convictions...period...and as I stated some misdemeanors can deny one the previlige and certainly multiple misemeanors of any type will.

After re-reading your post...I am speaking about convictions...and maybe you are not. I suppose it is conceivable that a judge somewhere would agree to dismiss charges on a relatively minor offense if the defendant would agree to join the military. But even an arrest record...without conviction can be a factor in denying one the previlege of serving. When recruiting is easily meeting its goals the standards for enlistment are higher than if recruiting levels are not being met.

good! need to start weeding out some of these stupid ganster and wankster kids and nothing like a vietnam to do it.

I'm not gonna read this whole fucking thread, cause i'm sure people are blaming Bush for this....

but wasn't that bill proposed by two democrats?

Representative Rangel
http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=H2690103

Senator Hollings
http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=S0790103

I am not ready to die for any president but i am ready to die if someone step in my city to attack me:thumbsup

In this case I would gladly and proudly be a criminal than be shipped off to be a meat shield for haliburton. If there was a badge I'd wear it. The Iraqi's are starting to say it was better under Saddam. Fuck getting a bullet for some ungrateful sand ******.
There are plenty of other wars and interventions that I feel were justified and wouldn't hesitate being a part of, just not this one.
If I'm going to give my life for my country I feel it's my right to decide whether my country is doing the right thing first.

I dont like Democrats either. They are just as bad as Bush.

And if you all wanna be a human shield for Halliburton, go right ahead. Wanna fight to free weak people who dont have the resolve to fight the government that THEY put into power, be my guest. Given a choice between that and being a "criminal", I'll proudly be a criminal.

By the time there is any chance at a draft I will be to old :1orglaugh

what is the age ceiling for the draft?

correct me if im wrong but arent you exempt from a draft if you are attending a college/school?

26

Fuck a draft... Fuck a war... Put the leaders of all the countries into a giant arena and let them take each other out.

They're the only people with soemthing to gain.. Everyhahahaha else has something to lose. I'd never fight for anyhahahaha who refers to me as a number. I pay my taxes, got my education and I donate to many charities. I have no religious interests, financial interests or hatred towards anyhahahaha that would constitute me going to war.

If this country was under attack and we could pinpoint a certain society or nation, I'd be all for serving my country...But I WILL never fight in some fake ass war that is only taking place to fill the pockets of a fucking ape.

With that said, I'll never be forced to fight in a war. I'm an only child with asthma, a bad shoulder and I own my own business. Just because I'm exempt doesn't mean I'm not feeling bad for those forced into this position. I really hope it never comes down to this. :(

To say "to be a meat shield for haliburton" is a radical statement and is not applicable to the reality of the "mission" in Iraq. The mission in Iraq is to establish a Democratic Republic in the midst of an area of the world whose people...in general...are enemies of the Western world and their way of life. To establish a "jewel" in the mid-East in an effort to change the face of the mid-east...not for the benefit...per se...of the those people...but for the benefit of the Western world. In other words the mission in Iraq is an extention upon the war on "terrorism" and is a forward thinking long term goal. The troops in Iraq are there in defense of this country against its enemies as well as the enemies of the Western world in general.

As...for you feeling it is your "right to decide" whether your country is doing the right thing. Anyone can pick and choose what laws they will...or will not...obey. There of course are consquences for breaking any law. In the case of "draft dogers"...in this country...the consequenc five years in Federal Prison...as well as being ostracized by the majority of society...loss of job opportunities etc....as Americans in general have little use for "draft dogers".

This was the case under the old draft but if the draft is reinstituted...changes have been made to the old draft...what all of the changes are I do not know.

One can volunteer for the military up to age 35...and in the new draft 35 may be the cut off...I do not know...but you may be correct when you say 26 as under the old draft I believe that was the cut off.

Not any more.

that's not old, that's barely mature ( atleast mentally )

Perhaps then, you could tell me what this war is about. I thought it was a way for The Bush Admin to channel taxdollars (and alot of them) to Dick's company.

Who gives a fuck if the majority of society thinks of draft dodging. Not everyone exists for the sole purpose of winning the approval of the masses. Not everyone plays follow the leader. There are still a few people in this goddamn country that are capable of thinking for themselves. Besides, in nearly all cases, history has shown that the majority is usually woefully wrong and it is only until much later in history that everyone wises up to this fact.

People used to bust the balls of the draft dodgers in vietnam. Eventually, however - the masses of society today recognize that not only was the war wrong but also that

Its easy to look back in hindsight and talk about how wrong that war was since it was two generations ago and the so-called patriots arent threatening you and yours. Any pussy can do that. The people who had balls - the real country men - were talking about how it was wrong WHILE IT WAS GOING ON. The same is true today. The people who criticise Bush right now are the real patriots. 10 years from now, everyone will realize that the war was wrong and everyone will blame Bush for it. Its easy to do that 10 years from now.

They arent picking and choosing what laws they are gonna follow. An unconsitutional law is no law at all. Dosent matter how many times you hahahahaha it out, demand complaince or scream about it.

bush is a total fucking idiot

but then again, so are most americans

he will get re elected, even though you guys may hate him

I did give you my opinion about what the war is about. Pay attention in the class room.

These are your opinions...that is all...so be it.

The US is a nation of laws and the sitting Supreme Court...at any point in time...is the protector of...and determiner...of what is constitutional law and what is not...not you and not I. This is the system we have and have had since the beginning.

:1orglaugh
you are so fucking funny.
go back to your bottle old man.

Neither of the ?pending legislation? says anything about having to join the military, so all you fucking pussies can be civil servants. The military does not need fat fuckers that would rather waddle to Canada than serve. :1orglaugh

God help us if he does. And if he does, I will be doing alot of shopping at http://www.sportsmansguide.com in the Surplus Ammo section... that and MREs.

UPS will be making a daily delivery.

I never have nor will I ever vote for bush. That being said, you are a fucking psycho. You did the same thing for the Y2K bug?:1orglaugh

You know.. I didn't really have that much of a different view to you before the war, but in everything that has happened afterwards i've had to re-evaluate my position.
we are both fairly pragmatic in that we do acknowledge it was a strategic grab for resources and locale. However, I honestly now do not think Iraq will ever be a shining example of a democratic republic. The US knows this which is why the Iraqi's aren't going to be allowed to hold elections, the governing council are a bunch of ex iraqi's and Saddam oppositionists who fed us total bullshit about their WMD, and we were only to eager to lap it up. And now they're being forced onto Iraq by America.. If they had the right to vote right now it would become an islamic state under majority shiite rule and basically an Iran clone, who are currently supporting the guerilla resistance financially and militarily.

I know it's for our benefit, but they way in which we are trying to achieve it doesn't ensure we are actually coming out at an advantage, at this point in time i'm not even sure it's a good thing that Saddam is gone, at least he crushed the islamic fundies with an iron fist. As long as he kept Iraq oil currency as US dollars and was contained he's probably a bigger asset then the current situation is shaping up to be.

personally for me it's looking like I would have rathered spend 80 billion on giving the CIA and NSA some serious kahoonas and quadrupling the intelligence community/muslim informant network.

I'd like to know whats being done about the actual and real threats to us from saudi arabia and pakistan as opposed to strategic aquisitions.

related to picking and choosing laws, yes I will choose to disobey a law I find immoral/useless/politically-religiously motivated/whatever and I don't give a flying fuck what anyone could possibly think about that decision.
Politicians are the most corrupt bunch of self serving leeches this side of the police force. I probably cannot express to you the total lack of hesitation in breaking and utter contempt I would feel for such a law.
I never speed, never drink drive, never cause any sort of disturbance, but when it comes to freedom of choice, unless my freedom is being threatened by someone other than the government I will not comply.
In this situation I would rather join the intelligence services to do some actual good rather than gambling in Iraq.

I suspect that you are correct about the type of government the majority would vote for if given the opportunity at this point in time...but we hope to change that view point. We do not have any intentions of allowing free elections being held with a "theocratic" option.

If you recall I said from the very beginning that to defeat the Iraqi Army would be a cake walk (I predicted 10 days and it took...what was it 21 or 24) and to "win the peace" ie establish a stable Democratic Republic would probably take years if not decades. I also questioned if we would be sucessful as my primary concern was/is the people of the US supporting such a long term goal. This is still a point of debate but for the present the people are still supporting the mission..but as time drags on and if casualties increase to large numbers (the casualty rates are insignificant at this point) the support will undoubtedly change. In the meantime I think the effort is laudible and I hope that the mission succeeds.

I to am a law abiding citizen...but I am aware that there are some laws that I will not abide by...if push comes to shove. An example would be...if anyone breaks into my home while I am present...I will hahahahahahaha them...and discover later if they were actually a threat to my well being...or not. The law in California was that you could only use deadly force if confronted by deadly force. I have relocated and do not know what the law is in the current state I live in...and I do not care...as I know what my response will be. There are other laws that I would knowingly and with fore thought...break given a circumstance or circumstances. I am also aware what the consequences are that I may have to pay for my action.

The haha word was e-x-e-c-u-t-e.

Ya'll stop picking on Kingie! He stuffed a lot of parachutes in those 12 years! And MOST of them even worked!

And...yes I remember your views prior to the war...as do I remember CD's views...which since they somewhat correlated with my views...I thought they were good views. :1orglaugh

In the "old draft" it was 35.

IF they allow student deferments this time around.
Last time around, I'm pretty sure it was only for 4 years max.