If a sponsor's click stats are wrong, is that an indication that they're shaving?

[elric]

I was checking my stats tonite, and I noticed that several sponsors are reporting way fewer clicks than what I show. Does this automatically mean they are shaving? I mean how can I get credit for a sale, if the customer's visit is not even attached to my account?

This is not a unique vs. raw issue. Both uniques and raw stats are lower than actual.

[Juicy D. Links]

[Oracle Porn]

maybe they count second page?
or until the whole page loaded.....

[420]

Originally posted by juicylinks

tranny?

[elric]

Originally posted by Oracle Porn
maybe they count second page?
or until the whole page loaded.....

There is nothing in the stats info to indicate that they are only counting "second page" hits. That would be a strange way to track referred uniques anyway, since the sponsor controls what's on the initial page - it's not in my control.

Even if they are tracking complete page load, there should not be a huge discrepancy every single day, unless their servers are way overloaded (they aren't).

I am talking about click stats that are underreported by 30% or more.

[elric]

Originally posted by juicylinks

Not sure what that means. Are you signalling that it IS an indication of shaving?

[4Pics]

How are you counting your hits? How many Proxys do you get a day? Do they do a unique on the whole site or just per account.

what sponsor and i'll letcha know.

[elric]

Originally posted by 4Pics
How are you counting your hits? How many Proxys do you get a day? Do they do a unique on the whole site or just per account.

what sponsor and i'll letcha know.

Every outbound link goes thru a script.

Stats for some sponsors (most notably CCBill) match mine almost exactly (within 1% - 2% of my numbers every day)

Stats for other sponsors seem to always be 20% - 40% less than what I show, although I just noticed this today so I haven't had time to get deep into it.

Some sponsors showing low numbers:

Nastydollars
TopBucks
PlatinumBucks

[SomeCreep]

Originally posted by elric
I was checking my stats tonite, and I noticed that several sponsors are reporting way fewer clicks than what I show. Does this automatically mean they are shaving? I mean how can I get credit for a sale, if the customer's visit is not even attached to my account?

This is not a unique vs. raw issue. Both uniques and raw stats are lower than actual.

Theres a million and one different ways sponsors can count raws/uniques. For example, maybe they're excluding hits from a shit load of foreign/banned countries your stats are counting. Maybe a unique visitor in their stats is someone who visits every 48 hours while your stats count a unique as someone who visits every 24 hours. They might only be counting second page or join hits. You never really know.

Best way to judge a sponsor is by how much money they make you at the end of the period.

[Veterans Day]

Originally posted by elric


Every outbound link goes thru a script.

Stats for some sponsors (most notably CCBill) match mine almost exactly (within 1% - 2% of my numbers every day)

Stats for other sponsors seem to always be 20% - 40% less than what I show, although I just noticed this today so I haven't had time to get deep into it.

Some sponsors showing low numbers:

Nastydollars
TopBucks
PlatinumBucks

[SomeCreep]

Originally posted by elric


Not sure what that means. Are you signalling that it IS an indication of shaving?

No, thats just for "Sig placement". Shave threads usually get a lot of attention

[MrJackMeHoff]

Originally posted by SomeCreep

No, thats just for "Sig placement". Shave threads usually get a lot of attention

Oh I better get in here then.

[elric]

Originally posted by SomeCreep

Theres a million and one different ways sponsors can count raws/uniques. For example, maybe they're excluding hits from a shit load of foreign/banned countries your stats are counting. Maybe a unique visitor in their stats is someone who visits every 48 hours while your stats count a unique as someone who visits every 24 hours. They might only be counting second page or join hits. You never really know.

Best way to judge a sponsor is by how much money they make you at the end of the period.

A million different ways to track a unique visitor?

Give me a break.

"Unique Visitor" means someone who visits the site.

If you are only tracking US visitors, then you would show "Unique US Visitors". Skimming off any non-US traffic amounts to shaving, because WHAT IF A NON-US CUSTOMER SIGNS UP? If they are not crediting me with the visit, then they are not crediting me for the sale either.

If it were a 24 vs 48 hour issue, then the sponsor's raw numbers should match mine. But the raw stats don't match either.

[dav555add]

[Lensman]

Most big sponsors only show 2nd page clicks. We, on the other hand, show everything, 1st and 2nd page.

[elric]

Originally posted by Lensman
Most big sponsors only show 2nd page clicks. We, on the other hand, show everything, 1st and 2nd page.

Why would you track 2nd page clicks only?

2nd page is useless to someone referring traffic, since the first page content could be changing.

What would be the reason for choosing to display 2nd page and NOT display 1st page?

[dav555add]

How the fuck would I know?

[SomeCreep]

Originally posted by elric


A million different ways to track a unique visitor?

Give me a break.

"Unique Visitor" means someone who visits the site.

If you are only tracking US visitors, then you would show "Unique US Visitors". Skimming off any non-US traffic amounts to shaving, because WHAT IF A NON-US CUSTOMER SIGNS UP? If they are not crediting me with the visit, then they are not crediting me for the sale either.

If it were a 24 vs 48 hour issue, then the sponsor's raw numbers should match mine. But the raw stats don't match either.

No, thinking sponsors count a unique as just "someone who visits the site" is not accurate. Make sure to read a sponsor's TOS very carefully. Sometimes they state what countries they dont count traffic from. Other times they state what "qualified visitors" are.

[elric]

Originally posted by SomeCreep

No, thinking sponsors count a unique as just "someone who visits the site" is not accurate. Make sure to read a sponsor's TOS very carefully. Sometimes they state what countries they dont count traffic from. Other times they state what "qualified visitors" are.

Thanks for the tip - I will check out the TOS. (although according to my web logs, less than 15% of my traffic is international, most of it from reputable countries like UK, Italy, Japan so that would not explain a 30% difference)

So do sponsors really want us to start filtering out ALL international traffic? It is pretty easy to do since phpAdsNew has geotargeting of ads now... but people in non-US countries do actually buy porn. I understand the fraud concerns for certain countries, but the UK? Why wouldn't you want to take someone's money just because they are in UK?

[Axeman]

Originally posted by SomeCreep

Theres a million and one different ways sponsors can count raws/uniques. For example, maybe they're excluding hits from a shit load of foreign/banned countries your stats are counting. Maybe a unique visitor in their stats is someone who visits every 48 hours while your stats count a unique as someone who visits every 24 hours. They might only be counting second page or join hits. You never really know.

Best way to judge a sponsor is by how much money they make you at the end of the period.

i agree with this mostly. Each sponsor tracks different as they like to promote their "low" sales ratios so take that with a grain of salt. Use your money vs your hit ratio and figure out which pays you the post per click you send via your stats.

- Brent

[elric]

Originally posted by Axeman


i agree with this mostly. Each sponsor tracks different as they like to promote their "low" sales ratios so take that with a grain of salt. Use your money vs your hit ratio and figure out which pays you the post per click you send via your stats.

- Brent

I hear what you're saying. Sponsors want low numbers so their stats look better in Stats Remote.

BUT if a sponsor is willing to "shave" click stats in this fashion, clearly they are willing to give referral partners false information if it will benefit their business -> shaving of sales/signups also.

I mean, it seems to me that an honest sponsor would not shave clicks.

[montel]

i think almost all are shaving nowadays. find a good sponsor!

[elric]

Originally posted by montel
i think almost all are shaving nowadays. find a good sponsor!

I think you may be right. Are TopBucks, Nastydollars and Platinum known for shaving?

[Pipecrew]

Originally posted by elric


I think you may be right. Are TopBucks, Nastydollars and Platinum known for shaving?

Why do you think your wonderful tracking methods are even accurate?

[elric]

Originally posted by Pipecrew



Why do you think your wonderful tracking methods are even accurate?

Aside from the fact that tracking clicks is not very hard, there is the fact that my stats MATCH some sponsors.

It would be one thing if my stats did not match any sponsor, but when my stats match everyone except for certain sponsors then that is a pretty good indication that something is not kosher.

Wouldn't you agree?

[Sylver7]

I imagine some people care and some don't. I personally stay far away from sponsors that manipulate stats in any capacity.

[elric]

Originally posted by Sylver7
I imagine some people care and some don't. I personally stay far away from sponsors that manipulate stats in any capacity.

That is what I am thinking also.

Can you suggest some sponsors that DO NOT manipulate stats?

[MicDoohan]

Originally posted by dav555add

How the fuck would I know?

yeah dont ask him - hes just the guy that posts stupid pics like a fucking asshat

[Sylver7]

Originally posted by elric


That is what I am thinking also.

Can you suggest some sponsors that DO NOT manipulate stats?

Take a look at thestatistician.com. Take the conversion ratios they show with a grain of salt but they are pretty accurate with showing the amount / % of clicks counted by the sponsors.

[Snake Doctor]

Click counting is a double edged sword.

Some sponsors count 99.9% of everything that hits the front page (the old ARS comes to mind) and those are the same sponsors that get heaps of shit about bad ratios.....when in reality they convert traffic to sales just as good as anyone else.

Then other sponsors count 2nd page hits, or don't count proxy and foreign traffic, etc etc and then of course they get heat from people like you who count their clicks out.
Of course MOST webmasters don't count their clicks out, so MOST sponsors opt for option #2, since the only ratio most webmasters look at are the ones the sponsors give them.

Since you're counting your outclicks the only number you should be looking at in your stats is $$ made, then you can compare that to your own click counts and see who gives you the most bang for your buck.

[serious]

I'm pretty sure topbucks only shows you second page uniques. Only reason I see is to make their conversion stats look that much better, which is of course bullshit.

I think it is pretty pussy of any company to manipulate their stats to make their sites look better, and then not even tell you that's how they do it.

[elric]

Originally posted by Sylver7


Take a look at thestatistician.com. Take the conversion ratios they show with a grain of salt but they are pretty accurate with showing the amount / % of clicks counted by the sponsors.

Thanks. That is great info.

[elric]

Originally posted by Sylver7


Take a look at thestatistician.com. Take the conversion ratios they show with a grain of salt but they are pretty accurate with showing the amount / % of clicks counted by the sponsors.

There are no CCBill sponsors on there, though...

When I look at my own stats, CCBill does not seem to be shaving clicks.

But from the info posted on the Statastician, it seems like a lot of the non-CCBill sponsors ARE shaving clicks. Not good, since a sponsor who would shave clicks, would probably shave sales also.

[TheDoc]

Most major sponsors track 2nd page uniques/raws. If you can think of a top sponsor they are probably on 2nd page.

[elric]

Originally posted by TheDoc
Most major sponsors track 2nd page uniques/raws. If you can think of a top sponsor they are probably on 2nd page.

What is the reason for this?

How can you make adjustments to your first page, if you don't know how many initial visitors you have? What good would it be to know that 1000 people hit page 2, if you don't know whether 5000 or 50,000 people hit page 1?

And if 1st page stats are tracked, why hide the info from webmasters?

[TheDoc]

They know how many first page they get they just don't display it. They do it to keep the conversion ratios looking pretty. Helps when 90% of the adult webmasters don't track out going hits.

[elric]

Originally posted by SomeCreep

No, thinking sponsors count a unique as just "someone who visits the site" is not accurate. Make sure to read a sponsor's TOS very carefully. Sometimes they state what countries they dont count traffic from. Other times they state what "qualified visitors" are.

I just checked. There is nothing in the TOS saying that only certain kinds of traffic will be counted.

[Dusen]

As he said, count how much you earn per click sent from your end. Period, do not look at ratios do not look at anything.

Count the cents you get per click (from your site) to theirs. That is how you determine the quality of a sponsor. Who cares if they are shaving if they are giving you 15% more per click than a "reputable" one.

[TheSwed]

Intresting

[magicmike]

Originally posted by elric


Some sponsors showing low numbers:

Nastydollars
TopBucks
PlatinumBucks

I'm pretty sure platinum and top bucks count second page hits and so do a lot of programs.

Its usually right in the terms, or you can just email any sponsor and ask what they track / for what ratios they show.

We count first page clicks, and our new version of stats will show first page clicks and join page clicks, coming out soon.