"Under God" out of Pledge of Allegiance? - GoFuckYourself.com

TheMaster · 03-24-2004, 08:43 PM

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...ws/8268421.htm

the supreme court is to rule about the fact, to take out the words "under god" out of "one nation under god"
the god part was added to the pledge in 1954

I say yes, especially if all people have/may recite the Pledge of Allegiance. In democracy you can not make school children pledge on a deity, if they don't believe in it.

TheMaster · 03-24-2004, 09:03 PM

wow, no born again christian wishing me to hell

xenophobic · 03-24-2004, 09:06 PM

what about the actual constitution, it contains multiple references to god, let's tear that up too, and then remove "in god we trust" from the dollar too, let's do a history spring clean!

The separation of church and state was to stop the sort of stuff that went on in England, like for example catholics were put to death by order of the King, not so the word "God" could be removed from everything!

TheMaster · 03-24-2004, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xenophobic
what about the actual constitution, it contains multiple references to god, let's tear that up too, and then remove "in god we trust" from the dollar too, let's do a history spring clean!

The separation of church and state was to stop the sort of stuff that went on in England, like for example catholics were put to death by order of the King, not so the word "God" could be removed from everything!

why not? when mistakes have been made, you just fix them!

no, when you say seperation, there really should be seperation between state and church, so everyone is included

other countries have done so, follow!! Give the right example. Religion divides people, don't start that seperation at such an early state, when immigrants have to pledge to a god, theydon't recognize as being a fact

TheMaster · 03-24-2004, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xenophobic

The separation of church and state was to stop the sort of stuff that went on in England, like for example catholics were put to death by order of the King, not so the word "God" could be removed from everything!

btw that stuff was going on all over Europe, but there protestants and jews were killed. and ... hey wait that stupid killing is still going on all over the world

how come that although all those deities are peacefull, they have more war/violence as a result then peace?

The Truth Hurts · 03-24-2004, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheMaster

there really should be seperation between state and church

says who?

TheMaster · 03-24-2004, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Truth Hurts

says who?

oh, I don't know, the basic principles on which western democracies are built

man, I should stop responding on these stupid remarks

Easton · 03-24-2004, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheMaster
In democracy you can not make school children pledge on a deity, if they don't believe in it.

word

12clicks · 03-24-2004, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheMaster

oh, I don't know, the basic principles on which western democracies are built

man, I should stop responding on these stupid remarks

they're not stupid remarks. they're just over your head so
I'll answer for you.
The people that said there should be no state supported religion (not that there should be a seperation of chuch and state) were the same people who sprinkled referances to god through out our other founding documents.

admitting that kinda makes your argument look silly though, so you'll dodge this fact.

<IMX> · 03-24-2004, 10:09 PM

I agree, it is tough to separate the idea of "God" from the United States...whether you like it or not, it is a historically protestant in origin.

"City on a hill" ;) etc.

However, in this particular case the Eisenhower administration added "Under God," to exaggerate the difference between the largely protestant United States and the godless Soviet communists.

The phrase was added to highlight the differences, and didn't have much to do with an historical reference like those present in the consitution. I've forgotten what the original words were.

Anyway it is going to be interesting litmus test of the current court.

Quote:

Originally posted by The Truth Hurts

says who?

TheMaster · 03-25-2004, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

they're not stupid remarks. they're just over your head so
I'll answer for you.
The people that said there should be no state supported religion (not that there should be a seperation of chuch and state) were the same people who sprinkled referances to god through out our other founding documents.

admitting that kinda makes your argument look silly though, so you'll dodge this fact.

again: then fix it

btw under god was only added in 1954 to the pledge

TheMaster · 03-25-2004, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by <IMX>
I agree, it is tough to separate the idea of "God" from the United States...whether you like it or not, it is a historically protestant in origin.

how is it now?

12clicks · 03-25-2004, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheMaster

again: then fix it

btw under god was only added in 1954 to the pledge

again: there's nothing wrong.
you morons just don't get the concept of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

It does not mean "Congress shall never say or write the word God"

I think a fair argument could be made that pretending atheism is a religion violates the first amendment by establishing a religion that is then used to attack the free exercise of the rest of the countries religion.

The dopey atheist pushing this case should be taken out back and beaten for being a trouble maker.

beergood · 03-25-2004, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheMaster
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...ws/8268421.htm

the supreme court is to rule about the fact, to take out the words "under god" out of "one nation under god"
the god part was added to the pledge in 1954

I say yes, especially if all people have/may recite the Pledge of Allegiance. In democracy you can not make school children pledge on a deity, if they don't believe in it.

Really, who gives a fuck. If you want to say "under god" then do it and if not then don't.

People are really too picky about this sort of thing now days. We shouldn't have to re-vamp all our old laws & documents to make them reader friendly for everyone.

Lets just accept that they were written in a different age by a different type of people and move on.

Don't we have bigger things to worry about? Its not like we're hanging atheist and Muslims in the streets of the US right now because some of our legal documents use the words "under god"

eroswebmaster · 03-25-2004, 08:27 AM

I've already posted about this before and my answer is just have 2 versions.

1 is secular the other 2 can be a fill in the deiety version...so kids can input whatever God/Gods etc they do worship.

Answer solved.

If a child chooses to say Under God he should have that choice...free speech protects religions as much as it protects adult content.

TheMaster · 03-25-2004, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
I've already posted about this before and my answer is just have 2 versions.

1 is secular the other 2 can be a fill in the deiety version...so kids can input whatever God/Gods etc they do worship.

Answer solved.

If a child chooses to say Under God he should have that choice...free speech protects religions as much as it protects adult content.

my problem was that kids have to say that speach (something that is probably totally weird for a lot of countries where people don't show that "patriotism" day in day out)

damn, don't think I've ever saluted the flag
but if you really insist on doing this, then make sure it covers americans and not only christian americans

CamChicks · 03-25-2004, 07:03 PM

The problem with the Pledge and "Under God" is that it is not presented as optional.

Some schools will punish you if you don't say it.
This is illegal, but they assume teenagers aren't educated enough to know that.
(oh, the irony)

I was sent to the principles office and threatened with suspension for refusing to participate.

He sternly lectured me with some patriotic "veterans who have died" talking points, etc. and I told him that if the school simply asked us to stand to honor those who died defending freedom I would not object to that. But that's not what the pledge says. It says "I pledge my allegiance to ... one nation under god". And that's insane nonsense.

It took my counter-threat of contacting the ACLU to reverse their policy.

TheMaster · 03-25-2004, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CamChicks
The problem with the Pledge and "Under God" is that it is not presented as optional.

Some schools will punish you if you don't say it.
This is illegal, but they assume teenagers aren't educated enough to know that.
(oh, the irony)

I was sent to the principles office and threatened with suspension for refusing to participate.

He sternly lectured me with some patriotic "veterans who have died" talking points, etc. and I told him that if the school simply asked us to stand to honor those who died defending freedom I would not object to that. But that's not what the pledge says. It says "I pledge my allegiance to ... one nation under god". And that's insane nonsense.

It took my counter-threat of contacting the ACLU to reverse their policy.

see, that line has real life consequences which in no way can be seen as democratic or lawfull

StacyCat · 03-26-2004, 12:00 AM

well, 1) it wasnt originally in the pledge, it was added later.

2) its not really optional. I got in so much trouble with my teachers about not saying the pledge, and not standing up. Once I pointed out that it was my right not to do it, they didnt threaten any other actions against me. But, it is very hard for most teenagers to realize that they can do that, and damn near impossible for anyone younger than that age to do something about it.

TheMaster · 03-26-2004, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by StacyCat
well, 1) it wasnt originally in the pledge, it was added later.

2) its not really optional. I got in so much trouble with my teachers about not saying the pledge, and not standing up. Once I pointed out that it was my right not to do it, they didnt threaten any other actions against me. But, it is very hard for most teenagers to realize that they can do that, and damn near impossible for anyone younger than that age to do something about it.

thanks for proving my point

come on 12clicks, do you say that these things are just?

Mikey_219Inc · 03-26-2004, 05:31 AM

they should not only take it out, they should stop the indoctrination of children in schools ... teach them something that will help them get by in this insane fucking world instead of nationalist propaganda.

"i pledge allegiance to the flag" ... this is mindless bullshit. its fucking cloth - i respect PART of what it represents, (those who have died defending our country for example), but otherwise this is just brainwashing nationalistic crap. "liberty and justice" ... i dont know what part of america they are talking about, but we still got a ways to go on that part.

Mikey_219Inc · 03-26-2004, 05:35 AM

oh yea - religion and state - this is fucking important. im so sick of these "choose life" license plates written in crayon kiddy font. If you think the religious right/moral majority wouldnt like to take half of your freedoms away from you, think again. give them too much rope and youll be in jail for fucking your wife in the ass.

these fuckers are fanatics and should NOT be given any political power - and PLEASE SOMEONE MAKE THESE FUCKERS START PAYING TAXES!!!!! GOD DAMMIT!

religion is a business. pay fucking tax you sheep.

TheMaster · 03-27-2004, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mikey_219Inc
oh yea - religion and state - this is fucking important. im so sick of these "choose life" license plates written in crayon kiddy font. If you think the religious right/moral majority wouldnt like to take half of your freedoms away from you, think again. give them too much rope and youll be in jail for fucking your wife in the ass.

these fuckers are fanatics and should NOT be given any political power - and PLEASE SOMEONE MAKE THESE FUCKERS START PAYING TAXES!!!!! GOD DAMMIT!

religion is a business. pay fucking tax you sheep.

spread the word brother

12clicks · 03-27-2004, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheMaster

thanks for proving my point

come on 12clicks, do you say that these things are just?

yes halfwhit, #1 is irrelevant and so is #2

MetaMan · 03-27-2004, 11:42 PM

keep it the way it is, i cannot belive people even waste time and tax payers money to change something so simple. if u dont like the word God, fuck you. if you are a do gooder, Fuck you.

the world is filled with to many idiots who spend half of the year working and then the other half claiming unemployment. and these are the types of idiots who bring up changes that cost the working man $.

MrJackMeHoff · 03-27-2004, 11:48 PM

I killed jesus just to see him bleed on his pulpus throne.

I am evil, Im the deicide and I killed the lord.

No more reason, I'll kill the world in another form.

Err somethin..

TheMaster · 03-28-2004, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MetaMan
keep it the way it is, i cannot belive people even waste time and tax payers money to change something so simple. if u dont like the word God, fuck you. if you are a do gooder, Fuck you.

??? okay, so you say that these things are okay, making people do that are unconstitutional? You would be a great dictator

The Truth Hurts · 03-28-2004, 10:45 AM

i vote keep it the fucking way it is ans has been for quite some time now..... one hundred and ninety million times.

HeebyJeeby · 03-28-2004, 11:08 AM

They can make claims that your kids don't have to say it if they don't want, but what could possibly cause more peer pressure than 30 classmates saying it while you don't? Especially when you're young.

Personally, I think all references to God should be removed from ALL government documents. How could those documents possibly represent me fairly if I don't believe in God?

Some people claim that the references hurt nobody and therefore should just remain. Well, any document that infers that a sizable portion of our country is wrong in their beliefs needs to be changed.

HeebyJeeby · 03-28-2004, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MetaMan
keep it the way it is, i cannot belive people even waste time and tax payers money to change something so simple. if u dont like the word God, fuck you. if you are a do gooder, Fuck you.

the world is filled with to many idiots who spend half of the year working and then the other half claiming unemployment. and these are the types of idiots who bring up changes that cost the working man $.

The religious right wing costs the working man a whole lot more by trying to constantly pass laws to make everything they find objectionable illegal.

raceman · 03-28-2004, 11:13 AM

There is no "GOD" there is just "Mother Earth"

View Poll Results: Should "under god" be taken out?
yes	42	70.00%
no	17	28.33%
no opinion	1	1.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

03-24-2004, 09:06 PM	#3
xenophobic Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 874	what about the actual constitution, it contains multiple references to god, let's tear that up too, and then remove "in god we trust" from the dollar too, let's do a history spring clean! The separation of church and state was to stop the sort of stuff that went on in England, like for example catholics were put to death by order of the King, not so the word "God" could be removed from everything! Last edited by xenophobic; 03-24-2004 at 09:10 PM..

03-25-2004, 08:27 AM	#15
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	I've already posted about this before and my answer is just have 2 versions. 1 is secular the other 2 can be a fill in the deiety version...so kids can input whatever God/Gods etc they do worship. Answer solved. If a child chooses to say Under God he should have that choice...free speech protects religions as much as it protects adult content. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

03-25-2004, 07:03 PM	#17
CamChicks Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: godless northwest Posts: 1,552	The problem with the Pledge and "Under God" is that it is not presented as optional. Some schools will punish you if you don't say it. This is illegal, but they assume teenagers aren't educated enough to know that. (oh, the irony) I was sent to the principles office and threatened with suspension for refusing to participate. He sternly lectured me with some patriotic "veterans who have died" talking points, etc. and I told him that if the school simply asked us to stand to honor those who died defending freedom I would not object to that. But that's not what the pledge says. It says "I pledge my allegiance to ... one nation under god". And that's insane nonsense. It took my counter-threat of contacting the ACLU to reverse their policy. __________________ camchicks.com

03-26-2004, 05:31 AM	#21
Mikey_219Inc Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: i dont even know ... Posts: 1,876	they should not only take it out, they should stop the indoctrination of children in schools ... teach them something that will help them get by in this insane fucking world instead of nationalist propaganda. "i pledge allegiance to the flag" ... this is mindless bullshit. its fucking cloth - i respect PART of what it represents, (those who have died defending our country for example), but otherwise this is just brainwashing nationalistic crap. "liberty and justice" ... i dont know what part of america they are talking about, but we still got a ways to go on that part. __________________ Let him who hath understanding reckon the WISDOM of the TOOF!

03-24-2004, 08:43 PM	#1
TheMaster Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Prague Posts: 2,733	"Under God" out of Pledge of Allegiance? http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...ws/8268421.htm the supreme court is to rule about the fact, to take out the words "under god" out of "one nation under god" the god part was added to the pledge in 1954 I say yes, especially if all people have/may recite the Pledge of Allegiance. In democracy you can not make school children pledge on a deity, if they don't believe in it. __________________ Promote Chaturbate Free Cams

03-24-2004, 09:03 PM	#2
TheMaster Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Prague Posts: 2,733	wow, no born again christian wishing me to hell __________________ Promote Chaturbate Free Cams

03-26-2004, 12:00 AM	#19
StacyCat Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,167	well, 1) it wasnt originally in the pledge, it was added later. 2) its not really optional. I got in so much trouble with my teachers about not saying the pledge, and not standing up. Once I pointed out that it was my right not to do it, they didnt threaten any other actions against me. But, it is very hard for most teenagers to realize that they can do that, and damn near impossible for anyone younger than that age to do something about it.

03-26-2004, 05:35 AM	#22
Mikey_219Inc Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: i dont even know ... Posts: 1,876	oh yea - religion and state - this is fucking important. im so sick of these "choose life" license plates written in crayon kiddy font. If you think the religious right/moral majority wouldnt like to take half of your freedoms away from you, think again. give them too much rope and youll be in jail for fucking your wife in the ass. these fuckers are fanatics and should NOT be given any political power - and PLEASE SOMEONE MAKE THESE FUCKERS START PAYING TAXES!!!!! GOD DAMMIT! religion is a business. pay fucking tax you sheep. __________________ Let him who hath understanding reckon the WISDOM of the TOOF!

03-27-2004, 11:42 PM	#25
MetaMan I AM WEB 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,682	keep it the way it is, i cannot belive people even waste time and tax payers money to change something so simple. if u dont like the word God, fuck you. if you are a do gooder, Fuck you. the world is filled with to many idiots who spend half of the year working and then the other half claiming unemployment. and these are the types of idiots who bring up changes that cost the working man $.

03-27-2004, 11:48 PM	#26
MrJackMeHoff Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: LOLLIPOP ISLAND =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Posts: 4,569	I killed jesus just to see him bleed on his pulpus throne. I am evil, Im the deicide and I killed the lord. No more reason, I'll kill the world in another form. Err somethin.. __________________

03-28-2004, 10:45 AM	#28
The Truth Hurts Zph7YXfjMhg Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In Your Skull Posts: 15,350	i vote keep it the fucking way it is ans has been for quite some time now..... one hundred and ninety million times.

03-28-2004, 11:08 AM	#29
HeebyJeeby Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Way past normal! Posts: 161	They can make claims that your kids don't have to say it if they don't want, but what could possibly cause more peer pressure than 30 classmates saying it while you don't? Especially when you're young. Personally, I think all references to God should be removed from ALL government documents. How could those documents possibly represent me fairly if I don't believe in God? Some people claim that the references hurt nobody and therefore should just remain. Well, any document that infers that a sizable portion of our country is wrong in their beliefs needs to be changed. __________________ List your fetish sites at http://www.fetishnetwork.net/.

03-28-2004, 11:13 AM	#31
raceman Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Now offshore on an island paying a heluva lot less tax than you suckers Posts: 1,064	There is no "GOD" there is just "Mother Earth" __________________ "ILLEGITIMIS NON CARBORUNDUM" <-- "DON'T LET THE BASTARDS GRIND YOU DOWN" General Joe Stiwell ICQ: 213-684-158