Visa , Fraud and Ibill - GoFuckYourself.com

Cindyff · 03-15-2004, 03:08 PM

This was posted by Ibill on their CMI i have read it 3 times and cannot for the life of me understand how this will help reduce fraud. All i see is that Visa will make a ton of extra cash and webmasters again will be made to pay. Instead of tackling the root of the problem they are just adding fines as though that actually addresses the fraud problem. As i see it the main cause of fraud these days is the card holders that want to get out of paying for membership to sites so he cry's stolen CC and gets a refund or chargeback despite the fact he accessed the site or sites for months. Until that is worked on i doubt fraud will be reduced significantly ?

VISA Monitoring Programs

As previously communicated in January 2004, VISA has begun to enforce fraud programs know as the Acquiring Merchant Program (AMP) and the Risk Identification Service (RIS) to monitor potentially fraudulent transactions. Effective July 2003, Visa lowered the fine thresholds for both programs. As a result, InterCept Payment Solutions has received fines based on the number of potentially fraudulent transactions reported to the AMP and RIS systems by card issuers. Low cost trials and rebills make up the bulk of the RIS/AMP transactions flagged by issuing banks. The RIS & AMP transactions represent less than .003% of iBill?s total transactional volume and cover a period of several months.

The fine is allocated to a small number of clients with contributing transactions and will be identified on the 3/15 statement by the following description:

VISA RIS Allocation (covering transactions from June to October 03)
VISA AMP Allocation (covering transactions from August to December 03)

Going forward, VISA will be compiling monthly RIS and AMP reports based on the number of transactions being suspected or confirmed as fraudulent by card-issuing banks. Transactions flagged for RIS /AMP programs may or may not result in actual chargebacks. A RIS/AMP transaction is not included in chargeback counts unless it actually becomes a chargeback.

Please be assured that iBill continues to be well below both VISA and MC chargeback thresholds. Additionally, we are working closely with our processor to reduce the number of RIS & AMP flagged transactions.

Shoplifter · 03-15-2004, 03:13 PM

I was just about to post on this...Has anyone who has a payout today been fined? I predict this will replace the Verotel thing as the topic du jour in a few days.

The thing that is worrying about this is that for those not engaged in fraud chargebacks are largely uncontrollable. It's always a legitimate user charging back just because he can.

Cindyff · 03-15-2004, 03:25 PM

Well the sort of thing that could be controlled like the thousands of Mastercard accounts that got hacked and stolen last year and the stolen accounts didn't get closed until fraud had taken place is a prime example of the shit that takes place . The CC companies didn't want to inform all those tens of thousands of account holders for fear of them canceling and not re opening a new account. They declined to inform billing companies like Ibill, CCbill etc. so who pays the bill ? The webmaster and merchants of course when the fraud is discovered. This is just one instance that could have been avoid where it not for greed. Slapping fines on us makes no difference as we do not have any sort of control over fraud within our accounts . We are not notified or allowed to dispute a refund or chargeback . So again its a case of the webmaster being raped.

BuckLover · 03-15-2004, 03:37 PM

Visa should implament a system that does not allow a card holder to charge back if he has had more than 3 occurances of fraud in a three to six month period!

There are obviously people out there getting free shit and free access and just charging the shit back!

turbomax · 03-15-2004, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BuckLover
Visa should implament a system that does not allow a card holder to charge back if he has had more than 3 occurances of fraud in a three to six month period!

There are obviously people out there getting free shit and free access and just charging the shit back!

thats the best idea I've heard yet

xdcdave · 03-15-2004, 03:46 PM

haha, I got hit with a $2.16 VISA AMP Allocation on the 3/15/04 payout.

I'll live.

Doctor Dre · 03-15-2004, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BuckLover
Visa should implament a system that does not allow a card holder to charge back if he has had more than 3 occurances of fraud in a three to six month period!

There are obviously people out there getting free shit and free access and just charging the shit back!

It already exist ... as far as I know.

VIXEN ESCORTS · 03-15-2004, 03:51 PM

I am so sick of this Visa/MC shit, it's 2004 for christs sake, we have Spirit and Opportunity trundling across Mars checking for water, we have siamese twins being separated, we have intelligence services monitoring emails and telephone conversations and using the material as evidence to prosecute
Islamist terrorists YET we still cannot work out a secure fucking way for Joe Bloggs to pay Bustyporn $20 to jack off !!!

quiet · 03-15-2004, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UKVixens
I am so sick of this Visa/MC shit, it's 2004 for christs sake, we have Spirit and Opportunity trundling across Mars checking for water, we have siamese twins being separated, we have intelligence services monitoring emails and telephone conversations and using the material as evidence to prosecute
Islamist terrorists YET we still cannot work out a secure fucking way for Joe Bloggs to pay Bustyporn $20 to jack off !!!

Fletch XXX · 03-15-2004, 03:54 PM

REVOLUTION # 9 and a half.

Danny · 03-15-2004, 03:54 PM

Something else that would be nice is if all the banks actually closed the card and reissued it when there was a chargeback... If your card is being used by someone other than you it SHOULD BE CLOSED!!!! Not all banks close the cards. If the consumer had to wait a week or 2 weeks for a new card in the mail every time they tried to charge something back it would cut down on the number of people chargeing back. When a chargeback happens that card should be closed end of story. The inconvience of having to wait I would think would cut down the bullshit.

Cindyff · 03-15-2004, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xdcdave
haha, I got hit with a $2.16 VISA AMP Allocation on the 3/15/04 payout.

I'll live.

Yes its a small amount but fuck it, why should Visa rip us a new asshole each time they feel the need. $750 Visa registration $350 a year to keep registered. Fines for this fines for that and each time they ask us to bend over all we get to do is ask how far !!

I long for the day some clever person comes out with an alternative to Visa and it will give me great pleasure to tell them where to put their charges and fines

Anna_O · 03-15-2004, 03:56 PM

As long as there's no REAL alternative to Visa, they'll continue to rip us off as much as they can. They know we need them.

Cindyff · 03-17-2004, 12:47 AM

OK, so by now those of you that are interested have checked your IBILL statement for the 3/15/04 and seen that Ibill has removed all the so called Visa fines from your accounts in one go ( June to December 2003). I would be interested to see just how many of you guys have had these fines small or large is not important just how many of you are affected ?

My account according to Ibills own words is well below average for chargebacks and refunds yet we just lost many hundreds of $ due to these new rules over which we have absolutely no control at all.
Take a look at your statements, the figures you need to check are the Visa RIS and Visa AMP figures they are the amounts being stolen from you.

I am going to contact CCbill and Epoch tomorrow to see if these guys are doing the same. So far i have seen no evidence of them following this practice.

Brujah · 03-17-2004, 12:52 AM

His name is Robert Paulson.

4Pics · 03-17-2004, 01:31 AM

and things get worse for paysites.

The sky is falling!

imageman · 03-17-2004, 01:32 AM

$500 worth of fines here

David - PG · 03-17-2004, 02:45 AM

Were you guys getting those fines actually over 1% for a month or more?

Cindyff · 03-17-2004, 09:32 AM

No way ! we are less than 1/4%

Basic_man · 03-17-2004, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xdcdave
haha, I got hit with a $2.16 VISA AMP Allocation on the 3/15/04 payout.

I'll live.

lol

Big Roi · 03-17-2004, 10:17 AM

You want an alternative to VISA with ZERO chargebacks and 100% privacy for the jock? Its e-gold, people.

Kimmykim · 03-17-2004, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Roi
You want an alternative to VISA with ZERO chargebacks and 100% privacy for the jock? Its e-gold, people.

Heck yeah, that's why e-gold was just on the news a couple weeks ago in such a positive light lol

tony286 · 03-17-2004, 10:55 AM

I have to say this is the one thing I hate about this business and its making being self employed like working for someone else. You have no control over the money.

They want to add fines for things you really have no control over its tough luck.

You cant go after anyone that has charged backs even though you know they have been on the site 15 times in the past three months.

To cut down chargebacks its two parts webmasters dont fuck customers and third party processors go after cb's ,it is within your rights to do that. My boss who had his own merchant account did it all the time. If the big 3 did that trust me charge back would drop dramatically . Joe Jerker doesnt want some collection person calling his house and his job looking for the money he charged back on Big Boob Sluts.

They should send username and passwords to email addresses that arent free(hotmail,Yahoo) They should all share their dead beats lists with each other. If they are not proactive its going to get worse and worse.

Kimmykim · 03-17-2004, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tony404
They should send username and passwords to email addresses that arent free(hotmail,Yahoo) They should all share their dead beats lists with each other. If they are not proactive its going to get worse and worse.

While in theory that may sound like a good idea, we do have to remember that at the end of the day, processors are competitors, no matter how friendly they are.

Would you hand your list of deadbeat surfers or webmasters to your competition so they could save some money?

03-15-2004, 03:08 PM	#1
Cindyff Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,187	Visa , Fraud and Ibill This was posted by Ibill on their CMI i have read it 3 times and cannot for the life of me understand how this will help reduce fraud. All i see is that Visa will make a ton of extra cash and webmasters again will be made to pay. Instead of tackling the root of the problem they are just adding fines as though that actually addresses the fraud problem. As i see it the main cause of fraud these days is the card holders that want to get out of paying for membership to sites so he cry's stolen CC and gets a refund or chargeback despite the fact he accessed the site or sites for months. Until that is worked on i doubt fraud will be reduced significantly ? VISA Monitoring Programs As previously communicated in January 2004, VISA has begun to enforce fraud programs know as the Acquiring Merchant Program (AMP) and the Risk Identification Service (RIS) to monitor potentially fraudulent transactions. Effective July 2003, Visa lowered the fine thresholds for both programs. As a result, InterCept Payment Solutions has received fines based on the number of potentially fraudulent transactions reported to the AMP and RIS systems by card issuers. Low cost trials and rebills make up the bulk of the RIS/AMP transactions flagged by issuing banks. The RIS & AMP transactions represent less than .003% of iBill?s total transactional volume and cover a period of several months. The fine is allocated to a small number of clients with contributing transactions and will be identified on the 3/15 statement by the following description: VISA RIS Allocation (covering transactions from June to October 03) VISA AMP Allocation (covering transactions from August to December 03) Going forward, VISA will be compiling monthly RIS and AMP reports based on the number of transactions being suspected or confirmed as fraudulent by card-issuing banks. Transactions flagged for RIS /AMP programs may or may not result in actual chargebacks. A RIS/AMP transaction is not included in chargeback counts unless it actually becomes a chargeback. Please be assured that iBill continues to be well below both VISA and MC chargeback thresholds. Additionally, we are working closely with our processor to reduce the number of RIS & AMP flagged transactions.

03-15-2004, 03:46 PM	#6
xdcdave Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North East Posts: 1,911	haha, I got hit with a $2.16 VISA AMP Allocation on the 3/15/04 payout. I'll live. __________________

03-15-2004, 03:54 PM	#10
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	REVOLUTION # 9 and a half. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

03-15-2004, 03:54 PM	#11
Danny Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 198	Something else that would be nice is if all the banks actually closed the card and reissued it when there was a chargeback... If your card is being used by someone other than you it SHOULD BE CLOSED!!!! Not all banks close the cards. If the consumer had to wait a week or 2 weeks for a new card in the mail every time they tried to charge something back it would cut down on the number of people chargeing back. When a chargeback happens that card should be closed end of story. The inconvience of having to wait I would think would cut down the bullshit. __________________ - Danny ICQ# 9770313

03-15-2004, 03:56 PM	#13
Anna_O Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 5,773	As long as there's no REAL alternative to Visa, they'll continue to rip us off as much as they can. They know we need them. __________________ Fetish by Anna Paysite - Nylons Bondage Latex Lesbians Glamour Annas Dungeon - 70k / day Fetish TGP ICQ 246797915

03-15-2004, 03:13 PM	#2
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,730	I was just about to post on this...Has anyone who has a payout today been fined? I predict this will replace the Verotel thing as the topic du jour in a few days. The thing that is worrying about this is that for those not engaged in fraud chargebacks are largely uncontrollable. It's always a legitimate user charging back just because he can.

03-15-2004, 03:25 PM	#3
Cindyff Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,187	Well the sort of thing that could be controlled like the thousands of Mastercard accounts that got hacked and stolen last year and the stolen accounts didn't get closed until fraud had taken place is a prime example of the shit that takes place . The CC companies didn't want to inform all those tens of thousands of account holders for fear of them canceling and not re opening a new account. They declined to inform billing companies like Ibill, CCbill etc. so who pays the bill ? The webmaster and merchants of course when the fraud is discovered. This is just one instance that could have been avoid where it not for greed. Slapping fines on us makes no difference as we do not have any sort of control over fraud within our accounts . We are not notified or allowed to dispute a refund or chargeback . So again its a case of the webmaster being raped.

03-15-2004, 03:37 PM	#4
BuckLover Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I'm everywhere Bitches!! Posts: 1,656	Visa should implament a system that does not allow a card holder to charge back if he has had more than 3 occurances of fraud in a three to six month period! There are obviously people out there getting free shit and free access and just charging the shit back!

03-15-2004, 03:51 PM	#8
VIXEN ESCORTS Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,103	I am so sick of this Visa/MC shit, it's 2004 for christs sake, we have Spirit and Opportunity trundling across Mars checking for water, we have siamese twins being separated, we have intelligence services monitoring emails and telephone conversations and using the material as evidence to prosecute Islamist terrorists YET we still cannot work out a secure fucking way for Joe Bloggs to pay Bustyporn $20 to jack off !!!

03-17-2004, 12:47 AM	#14
Cindyff Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,187	OK, so by now those of you that are interested have checked your IBILL statement for the 3/15/04 and seen that Ibill has removed all the so called Visa fines from your accounts in one go ( June to December 2003). I would be interested to see just how many of you guys have had these fines small or large is not important just how many of you are affected ? My account according to Ibills own words is well below average for chargebacks and refunds yet we just lost many hundreds of $ due to these new rules over which we have absolutely no control at all. Take a look at your statements, the figures you need to check are the Visa RIS and Visa AMP figures they are the amounts being stolen from you. I am going to contact CCbill and Epoch tomorrow to see if these guys are doing the same. So far i have seen no evidence of them following this practice.

03-17-2004, 12:52 AM	#15
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	His name is Robert Paulson. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

03-17-2004, 01:31 AM	#16
4Pics Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 7,952	and things get worse for paysites. The sky is falling!

03-17-2004, 01:32 AM	#17
imageman Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,938	$500 worth of fines here

03-17-2004, 02:45 AM	#18
David - PG Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 767	Were you guys getting those fines actually over 1% for a month or more?

03-17-2004, 09:32 AM	#19
Cindyff Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,187	No way ! we are less than 1/4%

03-17-2004, 10:17 AM	#21
Big Roi Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: A few years in the future... Posts: 8	You want an alternative to VISA with ZERO chargebacks and 100% privacy for the jock? Its e-gold, people. __________________ You have never seen girls like THIS before! The history of human genetic enhancement from 2006 to 2099. www.scifierotic.com

03-17-2004, 10:55 AM	#23
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	I have to say this is the one thing I hate about this business and its making being self employed like working for someone else. You have no control over the money. They want to add fines for things you really have no control over its tough luck. You cant go after anyone that has charged backs even though you know they have been on the site 15 times in the past three months. To cut down chargebacks its two parts webmasters dont fuck customers and third party processors go after cb's ,it is within your rights to do that. My boss who had his own merchant account did it all the time. If the big 3 did that trust me charge back would drop dramatically . Joe Jerker doesnt want some collection person calling his house and his job looking for the money he charged back on Big Boob Sluts. They should send username and passwords to email addresses that arent free(hotmail,Yahoo) They should all share their dead beats lists with each other. If they are not proactive its going to get worse and worse.