Fuck TGP's! Cut Out This Blood Sucking Middle Man! (better conversions)

[Odin88]

Well, free porn is an obvious problem to conversions, but how do you stop something that makes so many small guys nice revenue? Well, listen up and you shall find out the solution to your dilemma.

Rather than allowing this middle man (tgp's) to trade traffic between themselves and make money whilst sending shit traffic to your gallery why don't YOU take the initiative and trade traffic directly between your galleries?

Imagine this... You build a gallery, it has a small toplist up the top (for your trades) and every 3rd image links to a trade (which is another gallery). You than proceed by trading traffic between other like galleries and in as such cut out the need for the middle man.

Of course the idea does represent some small dilemmas. You will not get as many bookmarkers to click around as a TGP does, but it does work. Basically you are ensuring that you can still make a living off of galleries, yet at the same time decrease your conversion rates dramatically.

In reality this an adaptation of the CJ model, however by linking directly to galleries you get high productivity, more sponsors clicks, yet at the same time surfers don't simply get a free ride on a tgp. Decreased conversions, more control over your galleries, and the small guy still remains...

[KaLi]

I only read some of it and I got confused because Im so damn tired.. Ill re-read in the am

[SMG]

personally I'd be kinda annoyed if I was lookin at a gallery and I clicked a pic to end up somewhere else ...

[Odin88]

Originally posted by SMG
personally I'd be kinda annoyed if I was lookin at a gallery and I clicked a pic to end up somewhere else ...

That is the point. Why offer king-surfer an easier ride than he deserves. Why do you think the CJ model worked?

[Repetitive Monkey]

Very nice idea! There may be some minor issues to work out, and there need to be someone to trade with, but it's a very good idea.

[twistyneck]

Originally posted by SMG
personally I'd be kinda annoyed if I was lookin at a gallery and I clicked a pic to end up somewhere else ...

If you were clicking on a pic and not clicking on an ad then I guess you'd be a freeloader so you could fuck off and die for all the gallery owner cared. Or not, I don't know, I don't really do free porn at all.

[integrated]

why not just redirect your gallery traffic to your sponsor or tgp

a domain has a life of around 48hrs when doing this

with a return of around 75k traffic

well worth the 8 dollar investment

[extreme]

mm, just link to eachother.

That magic crap traffic will just appear out of nowhere!

TGPs suck!

[Odin88]

The surfer will still click around on gallery after gallery also because he is still getting free pics. I tried something similar to this some time ago, and I had some good success with it. However, I did not chase it as I was developing a strong SE network at the same time, which occupied most of my time.

[Odin88]

Also Fletch, why did you delete your post? Were you afraid to get owned again, doormat?

[SMG]

Here's what I'd do, and I very well might make a script that does this:

make a standard gallery, as if you're gonna submit it to a tgp submitter ... the only diff is the gallery is a .shtml or a .php page, and has a small ssi type cgi/php include up top

In the SSI include is a list of up to 20-25 galleries... these are the last 25 galleries that were referers to the gallery the toplist is on ... you can do it with your own galleries, or you can do it with other people as well ... it basically makes a neverending tgp for browsers, but doesnt need a TGP.

Lemme know what u guys think on this, I'm half drunk so I have no clue if it can fly

[clickhappy]

Originally posted by twistyneck

I don't really do free porn at all.

how do you sell memberships without giving away even a small sample of whats inside?

[Weasel]

I hotlinkin evry 5ith thumbs to tours now and i not get lested in 2 yeers.

[Odin88]

Originally posted by SMG
Here's what I'd do, and I very well might make a script that does this:

make a standard gallery, as if you're gonna submit it to a tgp submitter ... the only diff is the gallery is a .shtml or a .php page, and has a small ssi type cgi/php include up top

In the SSI include is a list of up to 20-25 galleries... these are the last 25 galleries that were referers to the gallery the toplist is on ... you can do it with your own galleries, or you can do it with other people as well ... it basically makes a neverending tgp for browsers, but doesnt need a TGP.

Lemme know what u guys think on this, I'm half drunk so I have no clue if it can fly

It is a very good idea, although I would also recommend every third or fourth pic links to another gallery. Please keep up updated as to whether you do this. As I said, I worked on this on a small time level before and it worked. With a big enough trade network (which can easily be achieved considering their are thousands of galleries out there which only need minor changes) I am confident conversions would drop even more so.

[Brujah]

sounds a bit like a webring

[Odin88]

Originally posted by Brujah
sounds a bit like a webring

No it is nothing like it. Linking true pictures 1/3 - the first should always be real) means great productivity for surfers, even if they have been jerked around between 10 galleries in the mean time. However, it also means more sponsor clicks, and lower conversions. You also don't have to worry about TGP rules (i.e. only two sponsor links) and such. It make$ $en$e.

[SMG]

Originally posted by Odin88


It is a very good idea, although I would also recommend every third or fourth pic links to another gallery. Please keep up updated as to whether you do this. As I said, I worked on this on a small time level before and it worked. With a big enough trade network (which can easily be achieved considering their are thousands of galleries out there which only need minor changes) I am confident conversions would drop even more so.

Well look at it this way...
In CJ, you see a gallery list, and it blindly sends traffic to CJ sites X% of the time. The reason a CJ works is because the browser is thinking "ooo a gallery" and clicks ... if you think about it, what I'm basically thinking of is using that fact ... have basically a "mini tgp" on the top of the gallery page ... browser looks, sees the gallery, is happy with it, and has more galleries up top to click ... since theres no CJ internally on the thumbs, the browser is happy and can surf all he wants,meaning he's gonna hit your galleries even more traffic because of return visitors, meaning you can show them different ads each time and get a better chance of converting them.

[Odin88]

Originally posted by SMG



Well look at it this way...
In CJ, you see a gallery list, and it blindly sends traffic to CJ sites X% of the time. The reason a CJ works is because the browser is thinking "ooo a gallery" and clicks ... if you think about it, what I'm basically thinking of is using that fact ... have basically a "mini tgp" on the top of the gallery page ... browser looks, sees the gallery, is happy with it, and has more galleries up top to click ... since theres no CJ internally on the thumbs, the browser is happy and can surf all he wants,meaning he's gonna hit your galleries even more traffic because of return visitors, meaning you can show them different ads each time and get a better chance of converting them.

Good thought. This is the basic idea I worked with intially months back. However, I added the 3rd thumb bit today. It did work than, and if done right it will work now.

[Brujah]

Do it! Kill the middleman! Hip Hip Hooray!

[Odin88]

Originally posted by Brujah
Do it! Kill the middleman! Hip Hip Hooray!

You heard the man.

[Ash@phpFX]

im not convinced, where would you get your traffic from originally? and how would you orgainise the trades?

also the big thing, why would surfers want to use this sysem when there is tgp around? thats why tgp2 never took off

[Morgan]

sounds interesting.... one question... you want to just trade traffic between galleries because the tgp's are trading all the "good traffic" to eachother and giving galleries the "crap" traffic. Where do you expect these galleries trading with eachother to get their traffic?

I may be too high, just a bit confused...

[integrated]

so basically its just one huge circle jerk

[Odin88]

Originally posted by Ganjasaurus
sounds interesting.... one question... you want to just trade traffic between galleries because the tgp's are trading all the "good traffic" to eachother and giving galleries the "crap" traffic. Where do you expect these galleries trading with eachother to get their traffic?

I may be too high, just a bit confused...

I figure feeder traffic. I mean to start a small tgp you need only 10-20 uniques before you can start trading. If, as a webmaster, you can not ruffle up 20 uniques to send to a gallery which would no doubt result in thumb clicks/trades, you suck. However, alternatively you do have a point. A whole tgp system could be built around such a model I guess. I.e. every gallery listed on the tgp is a 'trader' gallery. If this were to happen though, I would stress that a % of the thumbs would have to link to other galleries so as not to allow the surfer to be too comfortable.

This is just an afterthought though, I don't think it would be any problem running it purely as gallery trades. I have started TGP's with 0 trades and 0 feeder traffic, and had a few hundred uniques by the next day. Simply signing up for trades usually assures you a few uniques, which with a well set page equals clicks, and than trades which allows for the process to repeat.

[Daen]

Why do you need to have your recip linked from every n'th thumb? Keep the existing recip paradigm, three recips at the top. This stops blind linking the surfer and makes him think he is in control.

A problem to be solved would be where does the traffic come from initially? At the moment the role of the TGP is as a hub/portal.

One last thing is who is in charge? At the moment the TGP webmaster (for better or for worse) plays the role of the boss. An autonomous collective is great in theory but would never work in practice.

[Living For Today]

Interesting concept but wheres the traffic going to come from.

[Odin88]

Originally posted by Daen
Why do you need to have your recip linked from every n'th thumb? Keep the existing recip paradigm, three recips at the top. This stops blind linking the surfer and makes him think he is in control.

A problem to be solved would be where does the traffic come from initially? At the moment the role of the TGP is as a hub/portal.

One last thing is who is in charge? At the moment the TGP webmaster (for better or for worse) plays the role of the boss. An autonomous collective is great in theory but would never work in practice.

However, I do recognize that does represent a problem as people have been taught that why pay when you can submit to a gallery and get it free? Well consider this, once you have your galleries trading, you can use the traffic from each gallery to build up your next site. I mean how did you start your first TGP?

Basically you would not be required to make new galleries every day, only when you want. With a central trade panel, you could update trades to all your galleries in the matter of a minute or two whilst adding a new gallery you made to the mix in order to get it pumping.

Now regarding who would control it? Well no one really. I want to test the water and see as to whether the idea is well received. A recent friend of mine (Repetitive Monkey) has expressed great interest in taking on this idea if it is well received, and the equivalent of findtrades could be set up in a matter of days.

But the main point is whether it is liked. I mean, I know it works, and I know it results in lower conversions, however, unless some people are serious about making a change it won't happen. If people commit it can easily be done.

As for the trades, % of thumbs linking to trades, etc can all become trivial. I mean, thehun does not have any trades, but worldsex does. Other sites don't have blind trades - it is up to you in the end.

[SMG]

Originally posted by Daen
Why do you need to have your recip linked from every n'th thumb? Keep the existing recip paradigm, three recips at the top. This stops blind linking the surfer and makes him think he is in control.

A problem to be solved would be where does the traffic come from initially? At the moment the role of the TGP is as a hub/portal.

One last thing is who is in charge? At the moment the TGP webmaster (for better or for worse) plays the role of the boss. An autonomous collective is great in theory but would never work in practice.

yes, exactly ... this becomes a problem which is why I'm not so sure it would work - the tgp model means surfers can pick their galleries ... they have a central location to go to, a "starting point" for surfing porn ... if you use the gallery circle model, you still have to use tgps, to get someone into the circle anyway ... so I only think this idea will work in conjunction...a tgp that allows this type of gallery in it ...

[Odin88]

Originally posted by Living For Today
Interesting concept but wheres the traffic going to come from.

Another thought for the traffic (something which I think *could* work). You list all your galleries on the one domain. xxxsexporn.com for example. At the bottom of each gallery (or else in the middle or somewhere else) you link to your main page 'see all my free porn galleries here' (or something similar). So the surfer clicks there and ends up on xxxsexporn.com and see's a list of your galleries only.

This is not a daily updating page, but rather a nice little organised page of what free porn you contribute to the world. The surfer clicks around your galleries and ends up across other sites, and than on to their galleries and main domain. From there he either joins a site, or finishes his jerk. Although he was fucked around a bit more than a normal tgp, he was still shown a decent time, and he was intrigued by these galleries. He remembers one or two of the sites names to visit again, and the process continues. Eventually he moves along to the next guys list of free galleries, and so on.

Just some more food for thought. Each person could always find their own way of increasing clicks to their galleries also. I do think the intigue factor would work a treat though, and with personal type pages with your links to free porn (updated once a week or whenever you add new galleries) I don't think traffic would be a problem.

(Sorry if I am being incoherent. It feels like I am typing one big sentence. hehe)

[Odin88]

Also you can byy gallery traffic for like $2 a k or less. It would not take much to get networks going.

[Rorschach]

Originally posted by clickhappy

how do you sell memberships without giving away even a small sample of whats inside?

I don't do free porn either, I don't have a single free picture on any of my domains. Converts great provided that you still filter and presell the surfer... it is all just a numbers game.

With regards to this gallery trading idea, why not just build x number of tgps with hosted galleries and trade traffic yourself? What's the advantage with trading through galleries?

[Odin88]

Originally posted by Rorschach


I don't do free porn either, I don't have a single free picture on any of my domains. Converts great provided that you still filter and presell the surfer... it is all just a numbers game.

With regards to this gallery trading idea, why not just build x number of tgps with hosted galleries and trade traffic yourself? What's the advantage with trading through galleries?

Hosted galleries are played out, and surfers just pick up and leave. This allows for constant creation of new galleries for the surfer to find on his way across the web. It also does not allow for some centralised free porn picnic for the surfer to just stuff his guts with.

I have many more thoughts on traffic supply though. If you guys are interested I am more than willing to type them up.

[Major (Tom)]

Originally posted by SMG
personally I'd be kinda annoyed if I was lookin at a gallery and I clicked a pic to end up somewhere else ...

kind of like a thumbnail mgp lol
i hear ya bro
ds

[Major (Tom)]

Originally posted by Odin88
Well, free porn is an obvious problem to conversions, but how do you stop something that makes so many small guys nice revenue? Well, listen up and you shall find out the solution to your dilemma.

Rather than allowing this middle man (tgp's) to trade traffic between themselves and make money whilst sending shit traffic to your gallery why don't YOU take the initiative and trade traffic directly between your galleries?

Imagine this... You build a gallery, it has a small toplist up the top (for your trades) and every 3rd image links to a trade (which is another gallery). You than proceed by trading traffic between other like galleries and in as such cut out the need for the middle man.

Of course the idea does represent some small dilemmas. You will not get as many bookmarkers to click around as a TGP does, but it does work. Basically you are ensuring that you can still make a living off of galleries, yet at the same time decrease your conversion rates dramatically.

In reality this an adaptation of the CJ model, however by linking directly to galleries you get high productivity, more sponsors clicks, yet at the same time surfers don't simply get a free ride on a tgp. Decreased conversions, more control over your galleries, and the small guy still remains...

This is kind of circular because you still havent solved the main probelm... How do u plan on getting traffic to the gallery? no mgp/tgp will approve a gall with too many out going links, let alone a trade script. So we are stuck back at square one.
good idea, it just needs to solve that first problem and it's golden.
cheers
ds

[pimplink]

Interesting concept.

[OzKaNoz]

Originally posted by Odin88


That is the point. Why offer king-surfer an easier ride than he deserves. Why do you think the CJ model worked?

But it only worked for a short while. Surfers are to smart for it any more.

Good luck with this, hope it works out for you.

Oz

[OzKaNoz]

Originally posted by asher

thats why tgp2 never took off

Now how do you figure that? Its 4 years later and we are still doing Tgp2 and making money with Tgp2.

" thats why tgp2 never took off" is not a true statement.

Oz

[Odin88]

Originally posted by DukeSkywalker


This is kind of circular because you still havent solved the main probelm... How do u plan on getting traffic to the gallery? no mgp/tgp will approve a gall with too many out going links, let alone a trade script. So we are stuck back at square one.
good idea, it just needs to solve that first problem and it's golden.
cheers
ds

I honestly believe I have truly solved it . I don't want to give too much away on here now, as it could lead to others taking my entire idea and gaining all benefit, but I do believe I have a solution. I am going to talk to my script buddy (Repetitive Monkey) and see what he thinks of the idea. If it is feesable you would basically be able to create a gallery with the right specifications and (insert idea here) and than leave it totally alone and the traffic would come. I am not kidding, it could work out quite well. In the mean time feel free to throw some more ideas my way.

[broke]

Interesting.

I'd give something like this a go.

[OzKaNoz]

broke
Hmm, I think Shemp sure wouldn't like to hear you say something like that.

Oz

[Odin88]

Originally posted by OzKaNoz
broke
Hmm, I think Shemp sure wouldn't like to hear you say something like that.

Oz

Why did he sell his brain at the same time as he sold his sig. hehe. Joke, I am honestly sure not many big players would be bothered by the thought at this time. At this time it would only really be good for small guys.

[OzKaNoz]

Odin88
You go for it! Don't let the nah sayers get you down. If you think it will work then run with it.

Jeezes man if we had listen to all of the nah sayers back when tgp2 started, tgp2 wouldn't be here today after 4 years.

You take the ball and run with it.

Oz

[broke]

Odin88 is there a way I could contact you?

[Odin88]

Originally posted by OzKaNoz
Odin88
You go for it! Don't let the nah sayers get you down. If you think it will work then run with it.

Jeezes man if we had listen to all of the nah sayers back when tgp2 started, tgp2 wouldn't be here today after 4 years.

You take the ball and run with it.

Oz

Thanks man. I brainstorm all the time, and although I do realise the obvious problems with my earlier simple suggestion, I am now seeing a way it can be done. I will talk more about the scripting side of it tommorow with Monkey, but I'd imagine it is a fair chance of it developing into something a little bit more than a post.

[Odin88]

Originally posted by broke
Odin88 is there a way I could contact you?

Ofcourse: 344709237. Look forward to chatting.

[the Shemp]

Originally posted by broke
Interesting.

I'd give something like this a go.

Broke, just so there is no confusion, you can remove your shemp button ad. i dont want anyone to think i am in any way agreeing with blindlinking thumbs. thanks..

[Odin88]

Originally posted by the Shemp


Broke, just so there is no confusion, you can remove your shemp button ad. i dont want anyone to think i am in any way agreeing with blindlinking thumbs. thanks..

Hey Shemp, don't take this as some kind of competition or threat by promoting blind thumb linking (obviously you would never see it as such now considering it is just a post on GFY). The guy is interested in a new idea, he did not say he agreed with blind linking thumbs from a TGP site (as many people already disagreed with). This was just a thought of mine.

Further, up until now it has been suggested (mostly) that it would simply be gallery designers trading traffic between themselves rather than relying on a TGP site and than blindlinking a thumb to go to another gallery. Obviously that is not the intention of this thread.

(P.S. broke already expressed disapproval to blind linking in the conversation now)

[the Shemp]

Originally posted by Odin88


Hey Shemp, don't take this as some kind of competition or threat by promoting blind thumb linking (obviously you would never see it as such now considering it is just a post on GFY). The guy is interested in a new idea, he did not say he agreed with blind linking thumbs from a TGP site (as many people already disagreed with). This was just a thought of mine.

Further, up and tell now it has been suggested (mostly) that it would simply be gallery designers trading traffic between themselves rather than relying on a TGP site and than blindlinking a thumb to go to another gallery. Obviously that is not the intention of this thread.

no problem, i just dont want the shemp logo appearing on brokes posts if he is endorsing this. the thread title is something about
"Fuck TGP's" so it should come as no surprise that i dont want any involvement with this. its nothing personal and broke can keep his sig money of course, but it looks very odd to see my logo in a thread about blindlinking thumbs...

[Odin88]

Originally posted by the Shemp


no problem, i just dont want the shemp logo appearing on brokes posts if he is endorsing this. the thread title is something about
"Fuck TGP's" so it should come as no surprise that i dont want any involvement with this. its nothing personal and broke can keep his sig money of course, but it looks very odd to see my logo in a thread about blindlinking thumbs...

The title was an attention grabber, and it got you in here I see

I could post his log if you needed to see, he mentioned some very good different means as opposed to blind linking though, so I will not post it public. I wouldn't be worried though, he definitely isn't endorsing anything unethical by TGP gallery standards.

[OzKaNoz]

Btw, Broke
So you know, I did not contact Shemp about your reply in this thread.

Oz