HELP! How do you deal with it when a model . . .

[AmeliaG]

So I got an email from a model completely flipping out at me about a feeder site.

I have a little AVS featuring some sample photos I shot of her and some partner content from another program which also features her on its sites. The AVS has the usual click here to see the whole series links and banners.

I actually tend to give models passes to our sites and let them know when new photos of them post and send them copies of magazines they appear in etc. But I don't exactly alert the media and stop the presses every time a new hosted gallery posts.

This model does not know what a feeder site is, thinks it is outrageous that I don't have a link to her portfolio on it, and seems to feel I should have kept her in the loop on this site's creation.

Does anyone here discuss feeder sites with models and tell them every time they post one?

Does anyone here link a model's portfolio site from an AVS feeder?

[AaronM]

Did she sign the release and cash the check?

If so...Tell her what I told the last one who pulled that shit.

"Fuck off. Have your attorney file the papers and he can deal with my attorneys."

I did that from my cell phone while with AMP in Maui. The look on his face was priceless.

[AaronM]

Don't even waste your time trying to explain it to her. All she will do is go out and find something else that you "overlooked" and throw that up in your face.

The last one I dealt with was freaking out because she was all over the TGP's sucking on Toni's twat.

[AmeliaG]

She sure did sign the release and cash the check. Certainly she cashed my checks and signed my releases and I kinda would be shocked if she didn't do the same with the partner content I'm using which I didn't shoot personally.

She is not a personal favorite, but I would have shot her again, if she hadn't gotten all bizarre on me.

But I'm being a chump if I try to explain it all to her, huh? I was afraid that was the case. Thanks, Aaron.

[Jimbo]

lol some girls seems to be annoying...

[mandrake]

just tell her to shut the fuck up and go get her nails done and you will give her a call when the next shoot is comming up...she will get over it.

[bhutocracy]

we had single girl sites so we told them that the feeder stuff would be out there to help make them more money. different from a paid shoot though.. if she doesn't understand the concept in 10 seconds just let her get over it..

[CDSmith]

Yep, Aaron is 100% correct. Models need to be kept OUT of the loop if anything, about their pictures unless you've included something about it in the agreement/release they signed. What I used to tell them was "The deal is, you pose for me, I pay you for your time, end of story. I own the pictures I take, and will sell them or promote them as I see fit."

That is pretty much all the model needs to know, unless as I said you make some special arrangement or deal with them.

[runaway]

Yeah, I agree

[AmeliaG]

I tell models when photos of them post to my main membership sites because I'm excited about it and I hope they will be too, but a feeder site doesn't seem like anything to jump up and down about.

I guess I already keep models in the loop more than is standard, but my model releases sure don't say, "please enjoy this dough now and feel free to harrass me and make bizarre extra demands later."

[KraZ]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Yep, Aaron is 100% correct. Models need to be kept OUT of the loop if anything, about their pictures unless you've included something about it in the agreement/release they signed. What I used to tell them was "The deal is, you pose for me, I pay you for your time, end of story. I own the pictures I take, and will sell them or promote them as I see fit."

That is pretty much all the model needs to know, unless as I said you make some special arrangement or deal with them.

Just add ... "I could be extra nice to you but then YOU'll have to pay ME"

[Ash@phpFX]

tell her that the pictures are yours, say that she sold herself for that hour or whatever and she has no rights or control over what you do with them. tell her that you could turn them into chrismas cards and send them to her parents if you wanted to

[AmeliaG]

Originally posted by KraZ


Just add ... "I could be extra nice to you but then YOU'll have to pay ME"

[KraZ]

On a more serious note however, I recently had a model who was part of a t-shirt photo shoot. You can't hide this from her so she visited the URL that appeared on her t-shirt. She sent me an ICQ she didn't like one photo of her - I told her there's nothing I can do now ...

A few days later, her boygfriend visited the site - apparently looked in the IE history (paranoid boyfriends anyone?). So he was all furious and they split up (not for the last time I might add).

The boyfriend, however, sends a message to her MOM with the URL of the site (now, that's viral marketing) so he can be a "martyr" of sorts. Her mom goes to the site and is awe-struck: the quality of the photography, the depth of the focus, the pinkness of ? you get the idea.

So she threatens to tell her dad who is a POLICE officer unless she quits.

So the model comes to me asking for advice ? I told her to lie that she quit (some fake teardrops, a few ?no more? sobs) and no more browsing from now on. No more t-shirt shoots for her too.

Tough business...

[Joesho]

I try to fully inform my models, and be as upfront with them as possible, that by doing a photoshoot with me, ANYONE is possible to see these pics of you now or ten years from now or whenever and whatever I want to show them sell them etc..... I cover this in great detail. on video, and have them initial every paragraph of the release.

If I feel that if there is some hesitation, I send the model home and make her come back a second time to be sure that is what she wants to do.... ( I can always find another model, and prefer to have only smiles and good things said when dealing with models at the present, or in the future)

I find you get more bees from honey..... and the word of mouth referalls bring me way better talent than the advertising in the paper does...

But like was pointed out ...if you have the proper docs, and she accepted payment in full, then she really has no recourse ( I would leave out the fuck off part though)

[kmanrox]

flex the heavy pimp-hand

[Rochard]

Tell the models that you own the pictures until the end of time, and you can plaster them on the side of a bus if you so decide.

[AmeliaG]

Originally posted by Joesho
I try to fully inform my models, and be as upfront with them as possible, that by doing a photoshoot with me, ANYONE is possible to see these pics of you now or ten years from now or whenever and whatever I want to show them sell them etc..... I cover this in great detail. on video, and have them initial every paragraph of the release.

If I feel that if there is some hesitation, I send the model home and make her come back a second time to be sure that is what she wants to do.... ( I can always find another model, and prefer to have only smiles and good things said when dealing with models at the present, or in the future)

I find you get more bees from honey..... and the word of mouth referalls bring me way better talent than the advertising in the paper does...

But like was pointed out ...if you have the proper docs, and she accepted payment in full, then she really has no recourse ( I would leave out the fuck off part though)

I know I'm legally in the right, but I'm concerned about how upset the model is. I don't want to have a giant drama over it, but I don't want to be a total chump either. I'm not sure that the girl would stop spazzing out if I took down the AVS either. So I might get the drama no matter what.

I'm with you Joesho on sending a girl home if she seems iffy. I want to shoot people who want to be photographed, not ones who have the rent due.

[Frank The Tank]

Models dont seem to read or be able to read fine print or worse still understnad it

[Joesho]

Originally posted by AmeliaG



I know I'm legally in the right, but I'm concerned about how upset the model is. I don't want to have a giant drama over it, but I don't want to be a total chump either. I'm not sure that the girl would stop spazzing out if I took down the AVS either. So I might get the drama no matter what.

I'm with you Joesho on sending a girl home if she seems iffy. I want to shoot people who want to be photographed, not ones who have the rent due.

if that is the case just ofer her a simple buy back, allow her to buy back the pics from you if she would like them removed and no longer shown... that way she has a choice, you are not out anything, and it is a win win, nobody needs to be a chump... I mean you took the pics to make money with, and she knows this... so what does it matter who the buyer is? if she wants to change her mind, then have her refund your money, and pay you for your time to photoghraph her.. I would even allow a person make payments to me for this, I of course would not remove anything until paid in full, and point out that the faster she is paid up, the faster the pics become her property
again.

[KraZ]

I doubt she'll be able to buy them back but that sounds like a plan

[AmeliaG]

Originally posted by RocHard
Tell the models that you own the pictures until the end of time, and you can plaster them on the side of a bus if you so decide.

Well put. Thanks.

Hmmm, I wonder what cities besides Vegas it would be possible to buy bus advertising for an adult site in . . .

[Praguer]

For my own experience, I can tell you that whenever you shoot a model, you should never go into the specifics about your plans with those photos or videos.

Limit yourself to have her read and sign amodel release and shut up after that point.

I had a customer one time, who was even nice enough to give the models the URL of the sites where their photos would be posted. Complete Disaster.

Unless it is Model that you know and trust, stick to the basics; you shoot, they pose and everybody happy.

[directfiesta]

Ignore her completely.

And from now on, don't give them shit. They are paid to sign a release and perform for a shoot. END OF STORY

I don't give a password, no copies of photos, nothing.

It is a " cash and carry" business.

OR

You can send her to Juicylinks for a guido introduction..

[AmeliaG]

There is no way a girl I shoot is going to have no idea where her image appears. A lot of girls want to shoot with me because they are familiar with my work and what I do. They want to be on my sites etc.

I have girls sign a blanket release covering pretty much everything including tech yet to be invented, but, in practice, for the most part, I publish the images in a select group of known venues. If an image appears on say the Penthouse site as well, then I will pay the girl a % royalty and let her know. But a feeder site is just promo and not something I think of as a publication credit worthy of note.

There is no way a model could make it up to me enough to buy images back once they have been published. I suspect if I made an offer which would cover the photography time, the image processing time, the design time to publish the images, the design time to restructure membership areas to remove them, etc. . . . well, I think that any offer which actually covered those costs would seem like an outrage to an already cranky model.

[tony286]

To tell her your letting her know when her pictures are up . Then its giving the impression its a partnership and its not. They are not her photos they are your photos. Models can really suck at times, I can see after being in this business for many years becoming really jaded would be very easy. Most girls that model in adult are unfortunately broken people. I worked in a jack shack and the girls would tell me these horror stories about their childhoods. So I told me boss if it wasnt for broken and disfunctional homes we would have no employees. He looked at me and broke out in a smile and said you know you are right.

[Mutt]

we're upfront with them but problems still come up - porn shooters and agents play games with these girls heads and we're not talking about geniuses to start with. some of them after the fact get upset because some moron tells them Wanton is selling their pictures all over the Internet, probably see the girls in hosted galleries. Well what the fuck do they think there were paid $500 for? A private collection? Some do want to know about licensed content - we don't do that.

Do what others here have suggested - tell them to go fuck themselves. You paid them, they signed a release, it's none of their business what you do with the content UNLESS they asked beforehand about usage and you lie to them.

[TurboAngel]

Wow, I'm so glad we have nothing to do with content. That sounds like a mess.

AmeliaG I hope you get things worked out.

[AmeliaG]

Originally posted by TurboAngel
Wow, I'm so glad we have nothing to do with content. That sounds like a mess.

AmeliaG I hope you get things worked out.

Thanks TurboAngel

I make it super clear what images will be used for and that I may come up with additional usages in the future and that my release covers every possible use. I'm comforted by other people's war stories on content stuff, so I don't have to feel alone on this.

But I have this idealistic feminist concept of how I want it to be and it really disappoints me when a model doesn't live up to it

[StacyCat]

when I first started modeling, I freaked out when i saw my pictures on the web. Only after I started my own site did I get more comfortable seeing them up there.

Thats also why I dont really want to do paid shoots. I like having some say over where my pictures end up, and I like the fact that I can throw a fit for other people to remove my stuff if I dont like what they did with them :-)

[modelgigtalent]

Originally posted by AaronM
Did she sign the release and cash the check?

If so...Tell her what I told the last one who pulled that shit.

"Fuck off. Have your attorney file the papers and he can deal with my attorneys."

I did that from my cell phone while with AMP in Maui. The look on his face was priceless.

Ditto.

[zentz]

tell her to fuck off

[AmeliaG]

Sooooo... I tried to very very briefly explain the concept of a feeder site to this girl. Figured I would apply the 10 second rule.

So she contacted the sponsor I was promoting on the galleries in the AVS which were not my content and bitched about me to this sponsor.

She is also talking ominously about how reluctant she will be to speak well of us and refer models to us in the future. I'm pretty sure I have never shot anyone she referred to me, so I assume her point here is that she will do anti-referrals in the future and tell girls not to shoot with me.

I think if I just blow this off, it is going to be a pain in my ass forever. But it might be a pain no matter how I address it. Is there recourse that can be taken against a model for telling other models not to shoot? It seems kind of like negotiating with terrorists when someone asks for something unreasonable and threatens to disrupt my business and social life if I do not comply. Although actually she has not stated exactly what everything she wants is yet anyway.

What do I do now?

[johnbosh]

Originally posted by AaronM
Did she sign the release and cash the check?

If so...Tell her what I told the last one who pulled that shit.

"Fuck off. Have your attorney file the papers and he can deal with my attorneys."

I did that from my cell phone while with AMP in Maui. The look on his face was priceless.

hahaha

[Mr. Marks]

tough business, huh?

[CamChicks]

hmmm..
This sounds a little bit like a pretentious bitch I knew;
who has since appeared on Blue Blood websites.

[AmeliaG]

Originally posted by CamChicks
hmmm..
This sounds a little bit like a pretentious bitch I knew;
who has since appeared on Blue Blood websites.

Mysterious coincidence or evidence of the occult . . . you be the judge. Please don't post names here though. I'm not trying to besmirch anyone's good (or sucky) name here, just trying to figure out how to handle a troubling situation.

I wish I knew beforehand when someone was going to be more trouble than they are worth. Girls who consider themselves internet models will contact each other and say don't shoot with that person, even while they are shooting with that photog over and over themselves and pocketing the dough. Even though I know the model networks on this are totally disingenuous, I sometimes wish photographers had the same options. There are very few girls I have photographed who were nightmares, but I feel like it would be a giant drama if I told the world who the few are.

[pimplink]

Educate her. Give her some tutorials on what feeder site is.

[baddog]

damn, it never crossed my mind that you would have to deal with the "I don't like that picture" b.s. That would be a real pain. If my experience with FUBAR has taught me anything is that most chicks hate whatever pic is taken of them.

[AmeliaG]

Originally posted by baddog
damn, it never crossed my mind that you would have to deal with the "I don't like that picture" b.s. That would be a real pain. If my experience with FUBAR has taught me anything is that most chicks hate whatever pic is taken of them.

No one really looks as good or as bad as any given picture. I like pictures.

I have taken down a shot or two that I model I was friends with requested. I wouldn't do that for some girl who just worked for me for an afternoon, but I would for someone I'm friends with.