Internet Laws ??? - What Is The Law ??? - Does Anybody Know ???

[realed]

Hi guys, I operate www.projectvoyeur.com and yesterday I had newspaper reporters at my office. Seems there is going to be a story printed in the News Of The World (UK) this coming Sunday. They are focusing on the VOYEUR aspect of my web site and although my servers are in US, I still fear that there may be an issue with PUBLISHING/EDITING voyeur content over here. If anybody can offer some guidance on this matter I would really appreciate it. Also, if anybody can recommend a UK Internet Law Firm then I would appreciate that too :-)

Hope to hear some feedback on this matter. I guess it affects a good percentage of us.

Thanks

Terry
[email protected] www.projectvoyeur.com

[Trax]

There should be no problem.. as long as you own legal content.. all licenced stuff
they can´t do anything... at least the server is located in the US
Voyeurweb.com for example is located in Germany i heart...... so

hope that helped a little bit

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Trax

[realed]

Eh... unfortunately we don't OWN any of the content because it is all sent to us via email. The website relies 100% on people contributing photos to us. Maybe 70% are setup but there definitely some real voyeur content on the website.....

Terry

[tuffruff]

Don't know about your laws but if you are legal I would do everyting in my power to get as many newpapers and hopefully tv pick up on that story. You can make a small fortune of the publicicty

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Information is the KEY to Success:

[realed]

Yeah, well we plan on doing that too :-)

I'm speaking to a couple of lawyers later today just to make sure of things....

thanks

Terry

[Gemini]

Hmmm UNlicensed content... No papertrail to use to back up that its legal... let me guess, you have upskirt shots? Not knowing UK law exactly, it could go either way I think. And your laws are so close to US in alot of ways, having offshore (to you) servers may not be of any help.

If the UK has any law similar to ours on the models versus release-proof of age IDs etc, you could be seriously screwed. If I were you, I'd be finding out what your copyright and legal wording is on this sort of thing. And QUICK.

Oh wait, we would have done that be-FORE building the site. Ta.

[realed]

We do have disclaimers...
www.projectvoyeur.com/info.htm

Terry

[Dopy]

If you are resident in the UK and trading hardcore material you are breaking the law. The server location is irrelevant. I trade all non UK legal material from the Canary Islands under an ex pat name.

[Gemini]

Hmmmmm a disclaimer and a buck will buy you a cuppa. lol

Point being is if you have some girl's picture that perhaps a ticced off ex boyfriend posted... and the press digs the girl up, it's the tower for you mate. That or you'd better hope she can be bought. Have enough to buy them all off?

When you start a site like that or one with faked pics of celebs, you should know up front that they can sooner or later and probably WILL come back to haunt you. You're operating in a very gray area and have left the chicken coop door open so to speak. You just have to hope the fox never comes to call. If you DON'T know up front, well Oops for you. Ignorance is no excuse for the law.

They are using existing RT laws until the powers that be get net oriented laws going. I know if I found my pic on your site that perhaps an old boyfriend gave you... think that disclaimer would protect you?

Bottom line is NO release, then you are invading those peoples rights. Its been said I know no mercy. In this case its the absoLUTE truth.

Seems most UK tabloids revel in this sort of thing to don't they?

[realed]

Hmmm... it is a gray area. No doubt about it. We obviously take down photos if a person requests us to do so. Also, you will never see a voyeur-subjects face... How do these other upskirt sites and voyeur sites get away with it all?
www.voyeurweb.com for example! - Igor has been operating this for the past 5 years and the public know about it....???

I'm thinking that the Gray are may be in our favour. Worst case scenario is we have to stop the VOYEUR section. Right?

Terry

[Trax]

when the people send you the photos you´re the owner.... thats it.. you got the rights because they sent em @ their own will

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Trax

[realed]

Yeah, but what about the person in the photos who does not know that the pic has been taken - no consent ???

I'm hoping my disclaimer will null any legal issues.... fingers crossed :-)

Terry

[deluxe]

Originally posted by Trax:
when the people send you the photos you´re the owner.... thats it.. you got the rights because they sent em @ their own will

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Trax

So if I steal pics from a thumbnail gallery at the hun and send them to you you're the owner???

common the pics that people send to him are mostly pics stolen of other websites...

[CDSmith]

Here again is another niche area that I've wondered about, as to the legality of the real stuff. The whole concept of voyeur content touches greatly on the area of the law dealing with invasion of privacy.

I'll go through your disclaimer and add in a few points that may be useful:

Do NOT send us photos that you have obtained from any other website.

Okay, right there you are giving up control of your own site to those that submit. This is the last thing I would do if I were to start a voyeur site. You never know where these people are grabbing photos from, and it could very well get you into serious trouble.

By sending us your photos / videos, you are releasing us from any copyright issues that may occur by posting copyrighted material at our website.

Yes, the submitters may be held to this standard, but I can assure you that if you are posting pics that belong to another company, say a content provider, then you are dead wrong in thinking that you are immune from being sued. The fact is, IF one of your submitters happens to grab a nice voyeuristic shot from a newsgroup, and just say it belongs to a content provider like sunup media or python video or any big content provider, and just SAY that one of their people happened to catch you displaying their copyrighted material on your site, they can sue you. They aren't required to give you any notice, and they aren't even required to TELL you anything prior to suing you. I know several webmasters that got away very lucky (by the skin of their asses) in similar circumstances. At the very least your site could be shut down completely for even ONE such violation.

By sending us your photos, you are releasing us from any legal ramifications that may arise from the public display of the photos.

Again, same as above, nice try but no sale. The submitters aren't legally responsible either so this item in your disclaimer becomes meaningless. I can assure you it means nothing to a copyright holder or a judge for that matter, that the submitter "released you from legal harm".

We will publish voyeur-type images but in no way condon or encourage any person(s) to partake in voyeur practices. If you believe that there are images on this website that were taken without your consent then email us and we will remove the images in question immediately.

The above smacks of the old disclaimer language "we believe our images to be obtained from the public domain" type of thing, and everyone should know by now that there is no public domain (unless you have it in writing from the photographer that he has released his/her images to the public domain. Since that rarely if ever happens, there simply is no actual public domain.)

WHAT I WOULD DO:

I would take down the submission page all together. Nuke it. Then I would either get a digital camera with a good zoom feature, or I would hire a good photographer, then hire some local models and begin staging all of your voyeur content. This type of content can be staged quite easily with a little imagination, and no one can easily prove that it's not the real deal. Get release/consent forms signed by the models, and go 100% legitimate. You can then slap your own copyright onto each of your own pics.

It's really not as hard as it sounds. I recruit new models all the time, and each time I do, I offer them a cash incentive to refer me their friends that also want to model, so I never run short of new faces. I've got an airtight release form, and I pay them in cash after each shoot, making them sign a reciept showing the exact amount they were paid.

Go legit, it's not worth the headaches of facing possible lawsuits and leaving your anal regions open to criminal charges and/or police probings Think about it.

Actually, now that I think of it, I have several very cute models available for this type of work, I would gladly script some voyeur shoots and sell you some content. icq 31024634 or [email protected]
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[This message has been edited by CDSmith (edited 08-16-2001).]

[realed]

thanks for the info mate. I appreciate your input. I am considering all options at the moment. If I remove all voyeur pages and content now will that solve my problems. Please note that nobody has made a complaint about the voyeur section yet. If I remove all today will I essetially make myself legal then?

[Gemini]

Trax... hold your breath and count to 1 million then get back to us. k?

Realed, getting it offline would certainly clear you from future probs. And hopefully no one is in process of filing on you at the moment. If they are, then you'd still answer for it. This sort of site just smacks of lawsuits.

[CDSmith]

I can't comment as to whether or not you would be okay if you took down your voyeur section, I don't know who is after you and why.

What's in your paid member's section? Cops have been known to purchase memberships and go snooping, and if they see anything they don't like, even if it's in a private member's only section they'll still skin you alive. Same with copyright owners, if they find you've been making membership funds from even one of their pics, they tend to go for the pocket book right away, and I don't blame them. Heaven help the person that uses my model's pics without my permission.

I've looked at your free voyeur section, and I must say I could produce better. I'd still make the photography look amateurish, but the photos would be much more entertaining I assure you.

Taking down your free voyeur section right now, until you decide how to best proceed, couldn't hurt, that's for sure. At the very least it could be percieved as a "good faith gesture" to those that are making your business their business.

Good luck.
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* <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>
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* <a href="http://www.stiffycash.com/?referer=cdsmith" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFCCFF">Make $35 per $1.95 Trial!!</font></a> +Free content! Is that a stiffy or a roll of 50's?

[realed]

Nobody is going after me at the moment. I'm trying to be proactive at the moment. I think I will take the voyeur section down and hope that this action is sufficient :-)

Terry

[Heinz]

Just some thoughts:
1. A disclaimer is only about the relationship between the site owner and the surfer. You can call it disclaimer, contract or agreement or whatever, but: You can not make a contract to the coast of a third party. Period.
2. If your behaviour is punishable or not, is not depending on what you think or believe. Have a look in the laws of your country or ask your lawyer - before you are doing something.
Some actions are only punishable if you make them in your own country, that means the place of crime is decisive. Other actions are punishable whereever you have made them, examples are sexual abuse of children or the international terrorism.
The place of crime is a little bit different from that what some ppl wrote in this thread.
If you live in the UK and your server is in the USA - then both countries are the place of crime. You are uploading from your PC in the UK, and that is the criminal action in the UK. Even if there is a country that is allowing childpornography, and you have your server in this country - you will get punished after the laws of the UK, the place where you made the crime.

[Six]

ewwwwwwwwwwww, you have yourself into a jam my friend :/

Here is the way it werks:
If voyeur is illegal in your place then they aren't going to care where in the hell you have your server located. They going to nail ya over transfering it. The Server don't mean dick, its where the actual biz is that matters. Best thing 4 ya to do is something your already doing, talking to lawyers.

Next Thing:
Like Gemini siad, If the models are unaware and they see their ass on your site... U could be looking at a expensive suit.

The Big BAD thing, the thing u should worry about:
Since you don't own any pic's... U better pray that none of thoese pcitures come into question about the models AGE! If they think any of them is underage and u can't provide proof (Even if usa Gov does) u woudln't even get a chance to see the light of screwed. They'd put ya "Under" the jail..


Your site is very dangerous and open to more risk then I would allow myself to be put in.

[boneprone]

dont worry about it.

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And That's The Bottom Line Cause Boneprone Said So.

[boneprone]

seriously..
Dont worry about it.......
Fuck em.

Someone approaches ya, tell them to fuck off.
Even if it is a Laywer... Tell him to fuck off. No one is gunna take the time to do shit.

Talk is the most you'll get if even..
If ya get any complaints, tell them to fuck off. DOnt ignore them, but instead stand your ground..

Be strong. Fuck everyone.


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And That's The Bottom Line Cause Boneprone Said So.

[boneprone]

the voyer shit you got on your site is the sites personality.

Dont get rid of it whatever you do..
Its your bread and butter..


Trust me, Ive been in this biz for 9 years, Ive seen this dozens of times.. Nothing to worry about.



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And That's The Bottom Line Cause Boneprone Said So.

[boneprone]

If someone gives ya shit, hell i'll talk to em for ya...Hire the boneprone family to represent up in the hizzy..

Ill personally tell em to fuck off.
If you dont want me I have other family memebrs like son of rage who I contract out just for this type of shit.

Dont ask people here at GFY for advice about this, they are all a bunch of pussies.

The boneprone family is always straight up, so what im tellin ya is straight up real.



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And That's The Bottom Line Cause Boneprone Said So.

[realed]

My lawyer has said pretty much the same thing. What I am doing is not illegal because all the voyeur material is staged and if we find out that it is not staged then we remove the pics. There is no law in the UK or US that prevents us from posting these pics....

The site will remain the same. P.S - If anybody want's to exchange links with any of my sites, now would be a good time to do so.... I'm expecting an extra 100,000 visitors next week. We are going to be frontpage news in the UK and maybe be doing a few TV interviews....

Terry www.projectvoyeur.com www.voyeurzine.com www.thetruevoyeur.com

[boneprone]

icq me my brotha!
66883099

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And That's The Bottom Line Cause Boneprone Said So.

[boneprone]

with that traffic cumming in, it is very important you breed that traffic and dont let it go to waste.. Set up trades at all costs.

Ill hook ya up, the boneprone family is a good start. YOu can get a nice flow of fresh traffic from the trades and the influx of your promotion volume you are talking about. IT will push you over the top and jump start something big..

Make sure you play this right.
Instead of worryin about all this legal BS from the people here, you should be hookin up with the family for some large trades to get ya pushed over the top..

Lets hook up.

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And That's The Bottom Line Cause Boneprone Said So.

[Gemini]

Don't you believe there is NO law in the states about this... When they ask you to provide your proof of age for showing nudity and a models release you'd BETTER be opening a file drawer up/// you so much as stutter and the agent will show you the good ol US way of smashing your face into a wall and the cuffs are put on TIGHT. They love guys that they can introduce possible CP charges on. Even if those charges are tossed out they have a whole bunch of others that will NOT go away.

Someone said it up there in another post. You will go UNDER the jail. And I do believe the UK has a similar law to ours on these areas. You really ARE an idiot. Try asking a internet or criminal specialist attorney. Not some dink that charges 30 an hour to chase ambulances. How incredibly naive of you.

[boneprone]

Gem, dont tell him that now! Im trying to get some traffic!

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And That's The Bottom Line Cause Boneprone Said So.

[Gemini]

And *I* am trying to prevent MY taxes being used to hold some bloody Brit for 10 years in one of OUR prisons. If our gov't asked for his butt to be brought here for charges, they'd have him on the first plane out to NYC. lol

[boneprone]

I think he should risk it.
He didnt murder anyone.

There are killers and rapists wunning the streets of America.. I think the governemt should worry more about them than our Brit friend...

Now stop scaring the poor lad..
We have some traffic trading to do here!

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And That's The Bottom Line Cause Boneprone Said So.

[boneprone]

dont worry about it bro... Nothing to worry about.. lets hook up.

[realed]

Gemini, you are making too may assumptions here mate... I have hired the top internet-voyeur lawyer in the world and I have a top UK solicitor also. Don't think I'm stupid mate... I have all the information I need and if you actually looked into this yourself more you would also dicover that what we are doing is not ILLEGAL.... There was a panic yesterday before my lawyers got back to me but it's all been taken care of.... You will probably know my lawyer... Very high profile US lawyer... My UK solicitor is also high profile... $30 per hour.... hehehe... if only... Try multiplying this number by 20x and then you will realise how much we are paying!

Anyways, I will let you all know what happens on Sunday...

[boneprone]

Boneprone said you were fine, you didnt even need to talk to a lawyer. I know my shit, and like I said you shouldnt have even considered posting worries here.

There should be no worries.. Only worry you should have is do you have everythong set up to breed this traffic.. If you do this right this influx can cause a huge high volume of stability to your site. Dont let it flow in one end and out the other.. Breed and maintain this influx you anticpate in having.

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And That's The Bottom Line Cause Boneprone Said So.

[Anal Hobbit]

Boneprone is right.

He's always right.
Focus on your trades and bookmarks.

Make sure your site is the best it has ever looked to really impress the new traffic so they will bookmark ya and come back.. Also have those trades set up to fuel the traffic back and create more fresh traffic.




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Anal Hobbit
Team Jesus - Boneprone Family

[ezekiel]

everythong!

[Gemini]

Just a very simplistic explanation to the nudity laws are on the bottom of this page. This is a retired top US photog and I know he has the best legal council that money can buy... http://www.glamography.com/edu/the_model_release.htm

I can't pull up the statute number ruling on this in the states, 18 something. Look on site page bottoms on the enter page and find it. Then search that out and read the law yourself.

I know for a fact that if an ex boyfriend had my pics, and sent them to YOU and YOU post them, I fry YOU in court. It has precedence set and would be a civil trial where all *I* do is prove you had them posted without a written consent from me. YOU have to prove innocence in this court. I don't have to prove your guilt.

This is the last I have to say on this. Be greedy and keep doing it. It always comes back on the person doing it.

[ezekiel]

Pictures i take with my camera and that I get developed are mine. Anywhere anyhow.

If I choose to make money from them... well thats another story? But if I just put them "out there" then what?

[Anal Hobbit]

Then you get a visit from the Anal Hobbit in your sleep.

How ya like that?

[ezekiel]

Love it!!!! HA

[Anal Hobbit]

legends of the Anal Hobbit.

[ezekiel]

killin me....

[Anal Hobbit]

u still have the pics I sent ya if me in action?

Ever seen an anal hobbit?

[ezekiel]

I've only seen the SixNine Pixs ...

[CDSmith]

The sixnine pixie??

soo, we have an anal hobbit and a sixnine pixie, heh heh. what the hell's next?....
-- boneprone ogre?

-- CD cyclops?

-- Lensman leprechaun? (Get away from me lucky charms)

6:55 Am, I need coffeeeeeeeeeeee
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* <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>
* <a href="http://www.topbucks.com/affiliate/clickthru.cgi?id=1448" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFFFDD"> $40/signup, $50/recur, 65% partnerships</font></a> + free content, free daily galleries!
* <a href="http://www.stiffycash.com/?referer=cdsmith" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFCCFF">Make $35 per $1.95 Trial!!</font></a> +Free content! Is that a stiffy or a wad of 50's?

[ezekiel]

Yup... all about cofxies? mmmm... tinkerbell.

[thebulldog]

contact a fellow BRIT for a trade icq 46335817

[Kimmykim]

Y'all turning this into the late nite crack jonesin' board I see.

realed, you'd best be more concerned with the fact that you are a pornographer and in the UK.

You might even want to check with another lawyer on that one if yours doesn't see it as a problem. I don't know anyone who lives in the UK who has a business under their name or even in the UK that does well in this industry.

Or then again you can trade traffic with the crackheads and not worry about it...

[boneprone]

yeah dont worry about it.

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And That's The Bottom Line Cause Boneprone Said So.

[Kimmykim]

moron.