As a merchant account holder i know first hand what a chargeback process involves.

Once they request a chargeback it gets removed from their bill. But during that time you have like 30 days to dispute that charge and show your proof that the charge was valid. Now online transaction is alittle more difficult because you don't have a physical signature. but there are ways to prove a charge

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Both the above statments are clearly on the site... pre-checked, of course...... and in basically the same text size as everything else...

Since it's online transaction, basically you have only IP address of the customer (at the moment of signup and further members zone log-ins). How can you prove that customer was provided with service he was charged for?

Also, for 3rd party billers like CCbill or Ibill, how can you, as Sponsored Merchant, dispute the chargeback? I believe it's possible only in hypothetical way.

So, my point is -- if the customer wants money back he will get it sooner or later.

you will not find any prechecked crossales on the CCBill signup form for the aforementioned site, i had verified this

Many points here maby are valid. Without rehashing all that I said before I will say this.

We have had our own merchant acccount for nine years. If a person calls and says they have been a victim of fraud or denies making the charge we will check our information present it to them, ie: name, address, ISP, IP address etc. If they continue to request a refund we give it.

I respect CCbill they have always been an upfront company and that is way this event was so surprising.

If this was a cross sell, something I doubt, then I will repeat my earlier statement that cross sells are a fraud on the consumer. Yes, they might be legal and certainly profitable in the short term, however they are part of what is causing so many problems with Visa and MC.

If this was a valid sale the CSR could have provided information to prove it was valid, he did not. He said " you will not be billed again" when pushed on a refund he went off line to ask a supervisor and came back with a no.

I never even heard of the web site which I allegedly joined and for which I was billed. I certainly never received login information nor did I ever enter the web site.

My sole reason for this entire thread is to make the point that there are issues that need to be examined in this industry that effect all of our income streams.

I would like to stay in business. We need to continue to function under the largess of Visa and MasterCard. Over the past few years Amex and Paypal pulled themselves out of this industry, I am not sure if their departure effected you but it did hurt us. To continue to have Visa and MasterCard accept adult purchases this business MUST be honest in the way it treats consumers.

Hmmm, something odd going on here...

The join page I see isn't a CCBill, the cross sells I see aren't AnabolicXXX.com, and I've never known Topbucks to cross sell to them either.

basschick, Paycom does NOT use CCBill to process or vice versa, that would make no sense and would violate some cc company rules to be certain.

CCBill has also been dogged time and time again for issuing refunds too easily, so they can't seem to win here at all...

I'm sure someone from Topbucks will be along to comment after they look into it, I know Probono is a standup guy but this just doesn't add up based upon what I've seen to be typical business from either Topbucks or CCBill...

Just want to clarify a few things here, as they relate to TopBucks.

We use Epoch/Paycom as our primary billing solution, CCBill is the secondary/backup processor that we cascade to when someone is declined by Epoch for whatever reason. This is why you see the Paycom join form and associated cross sales when you click through to any of our join pages.

We do use cross sales through CCBill, which are not prechecked, or "hidden". We do not send any cross sales to the site in question (anabolicxxx.com), so this charge could not have resulted from purchasing a membership to MilfSeeker.

I'm not sure what occurred here, but I'm pretty certain that the two charges are completely unrelated. Probono - anyone else have access to that card?

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Checked by default. Not fine print. Big fucking print on the join page. Pretty common practice with a per sign-up program. How do you think they payout $30-40 on a $3 trial?

Maybe your partner made the other purchase too. Secret Fetish?

Donovan, Lee is a nice guy and so is his partner. They have been in this business for a long time and have done very well with their business model. Your attitude is a little over the top with hostility towards someone that you apparently don't know, don't you think?


Somewhere down the line something isn't adding up, it doesn't look to have anything to do with Topbucks, but being borderline rude to Probono isn't making you look too sharp either, imo.

Corvette from CCbill is working through the issues related to to this post. We will resolve this specific issue.

Kimmy the charge was from CCbill, that is not in doubt, at the time of purchase CCbill was an option.