I live in Sarasota and the area she was crossing through are nice neighborhoods with lots of kids, all ages.

Kids ride their bikes, skateboard, and scooters all day long on the weekends.

The area that she was abducted was right on Beeridge ave, which is very busy four lane rural traffic. Just to the right of the carwash is a driving range and a miniature golf course. This is a very open site.

If it would not have been at the start of the Superbowl there would have been hundreds of people in that area at that time of day.

Also sunset was about 20 minutes away. She would have been home before dark, easily.

She went to the same middle school as both my daughters.

Pretty horrific, I hope justice is quick and painful.

Cruel and unusual punishment should be reviewed.


:feels-hot :mad: :ak47:

Times haven't changed... we just have more 24 hour news stations now. There were always child abductions, even when we were children.

I think this compares to the liberty vs. security debate. I don't believe a child can learn and grow without being given a little independence.

Regardless, I blame the murderer, not the parents.

:thumbsup

Females of all ages are vulnerable to attack especially young girls who might get confused at the time of an abduction. It looked like that young girl was confused when the man approached her. You have to keep a very close eye on young girls. :2 cents:

Just how overprotective should a parent get? For fear of abduction, do you in effect put your kid in an armed camp until they are 18, or what? Nowadays I see a lot of parents who are basically escorts and chauffers for their kids anyway.... ride to school, ride to hockey, ride to the mall..... shit. There were abductions when I was a kid too, but us kids all walked... everywhere. If I wanted to go swimming, I bussed it. We always walked to school, and often times I had to toss my hockey equipment on my back and hoof it over to the rinks on my own if I wanted to get there.

I grew up in the suburbs of Winnipeg. Huge difference than if you're talking about a big American city though. If I lived there and had kids I would be a lot more protective, yes, but watching over their every move? I doubt it.

At the very least, this girl should have been walking with a friend or two. She probably usually did always remember to walk with friends, but maybe forgot or let it slide this one time, who knows? Again, I remember when we were kids we were told to walk in pairs, I know my parents would never let me just jump on a bus and go downtown alone. From the parents perspective, I believe there are ways of being more cautious and protective without having to put your kids under house arrest.

You know, I saw an interesting study on tv one day...

They took a bunch of kids and divided them into groups based on how they were raised...

Group 1 was raised being taught never to talk to strangers, never trust strangers, etc.

Group 2 was raised actually being encouraged to talk to strangers... the opposite of our knee-jerk paradigm that results from fear.

They took all of these kids, and sent strangers to their houses who asked them to come with them.

Interestingly, almost every child in group 1 went with the stranger, because the kid was afraid. Almost everyone in Group 2 confidently said they had to ask their parents.

The point, by the way, isn't that we shouldn't be protective of our kids... just that none of us have all the answers to being a perfect parent... We do our best, and hope that we're doing things right.

I would have to say NEVER....
Bottom line everygirl needs to
be safe...I don't care if you are
45 yr old women! In Girl scouts
you learn the Buddy system!!!
It's just not safe anywhere anymore!

:2 cents:

So I'm supposed to be a hermit, never leave my home without someone with me, and I'm supposed to live my entire life fearing what might be around the next corner or who might be jumping out to grab, hurt or kill me? Sounds like a great life.

1 in 4 people are mentaly unstable in some form or another. With statistics like that you, your wife, and two kids could live out your life in a bomnb shelter and still not be safe... You cant live in fear.:helpme

Pretty much my point.. It's much better to pro-actively teach safety to kids than to just instill fear, but not a method of coping with fearful situations. Sure, it would be much easier if we could protect our children by never leaving their sides even for a second, but this is neither realistic nor fair, and it's certainly not doing them any favors. I'm all for protecting children, being a responsible parent, etc, but it's certainly not helping a child if they aren't ever allowed to have any responsibility or adaptability to various situations. If anything, that is just setting the child up to be a much easier victim when they don't have mommy and daddy to look over their shoulder every single second of every single day.

Responsible fear is reasonable, when followed up by positive learning experiences and reinforcement of rules, responsibilities, and the like. Instilling unreasonable fear in a child and encouraging it is no more responsible than allowing a small child to walk down the street outside alone. You are BEGGING for that child to be victimized.

I'm just saying to be aware...I have worked in cosmetics for years
I walk out to my car alone and I do carry mace. I have left worked before and had freaks waiting for me by my car! I was lucky enough to grow up in a very small town, population 400 LOL
We always walked around and rode our bikes everywhere!!!
Just be safe look around and know what's going on. I go out all the time alone, but I try to go with a friend as much as possible!
I just try to be as safe as possible!
:thumbsup

Yes, that is what I do . :)

Although, it is totally the killers fault, the lazy ass step father should have told her to wait at the house until he could be pick her up.

I have been the victim of rape, I have had people attempt rape on me, but I could still NEVER be THAT fearful. Being careful is one thing, but living every second expecting the worst is no life... trust me. I fought with myself for years to come to that realization, and perpetrating my unreasonable fears in my children seems ridiculous to me. Teaching caution and teaching viable options is a much better defense. I don't go out alone in situations I know are high risk..that's just asking for trouble, but neither do I wait forever for someone to hold my hand going to the corner store. Balance in everything. I assess every situation as it occurs.. To make a blanket judgement would be to sell myself short of life and the enjoyment of it.

Seriously, how difficult is it to walk in public in pairs? I mean, c'mon - that's hardly staying at home behind locked doors your entire life. :eek2

When is it ever an absolute necessity to walk alone somewhere? I don't see this as being overprotective, I see it as basic common sense. I learned about the buddy system 35+ years ago and I've never once been afraid to go anywhere. :thumbsup

I think any woman in the right situation regardless of age is a walking target..we need to use common sense first then just have faith that life is not going to be creul to us..the big truth is that you are only as stong as your weekest link(the law).

Unfortunately I don't always have the option of having someone with me.. It's just not always possible. A lot of times if I go out of the house alone, the hubby has to stay with the kids unless I want to drag them along, and most of my "buddies" live 45 minutes out of town or more. There is no way I'm going to ask someone to drive into town to walk with me 6 blocks to the IGA or something.. Even when I lived in a bigger town I went most places alone. It's pretty safe if you're in public and not on back roads or alleys or anything. 3/4 of the things i've accomplished in my life would never have been done if I had to wait around for someone to escort me everywhere I went :)

That includes taking the bus across the country something like 3 or 4 times... That's a minimum 78 hour ride..

A Burqa and armed escort should be mandatory.

when you stop callin them "a little girl". :winkwink:

Why not take ONE of the kids with you? :thumbsup When I go places with friends, we go because we're friends and enjoying spending time together - not because one is escorting the other.

From what I've read this girl WAS walking off the main road - behind the car wash as a short cut home. Again - why take chances when you're in that situation?

You aren't by yourself on a bus. Surely you see the difference between walking behind a building alone and being on a bus. That's like saying you shouldn't fly alone. :winkwink:

Yeah see when I'm alone I stay on main drags and out of back alleys etc. That's ASKING for trouble.. and I do take the kids sometimes but oftentimes errands are much easier and quicker without two little guys tagging along. Short legs long distances, you know :)

Thank you!
:thumbsup

I just try to be safe and I do think it's all about common sense!
I don't live my life in fear, I just go by what I have learned.......
I would rather be safe than sorry.
:thumbsup

i think the main issue is not really the girl's age, it's that she was walking in a totally isolated area. girls/women (and young boys for that matter) should always avoid walking by themselves in areas where there are no other people around. an 18 year old could have just as easily been abducted in that position.

Yes, this is absolutely true.

I think we're missing each other on the definition of "alone" :) When you're on a busy street where others are around, are also walking, if you're on a bus, a plane, in a busy store, etc. then IMHO, you're not "alone".

Walking behind buildings, lightly traveled streets, in an empty parking lot, etc. by yourself - THAT'S alone to me. :thumbsup

I'm glad I saw this post before I made an ass of myself wondering why in the fuck would an 11 year old girl be walking "behind" a car wash just like I saw this idiot on CNN just say.

You have to remember, LM lives in a very rural area of Canada. That's a far cry from a big suburban area of a large US city. It's like comparing apples to fishing tackle.

You reminded me of a song by Dar Williams that I love.


When I Was A Boy
Dar Williams

I won't forget when Peter Pan came to my house, took my hand
I said I was a boy; I'm glad he didn't check.
I learned to fly, I learned to fight
I lived a whole life in one night
We saved each other's lives out on the pirate's deck.
And I remember that night
When I'm leaving a late night with some friends
And I hear somebody tell me it's not safe, someone should help me
I need to find a nice man to walk me home.
When I was a boy, I scared the pants off of my mom,
Climbed what I could climb upon
And I don't know how I survived,
I guess I knew the tricks that all boys knew.
And you can walk me home, but I was a boy, too.

I was a kid that you would like, just a small boy on her bike
Riding topless, yeah, I never cared who saw.
My neighbor come outside to say, "Get your shirt,"
I said "No way, it's the last time I'm not breaking any law."
And now I'm in a clothing store, and the sign says less is more
More that's tight means more to see, more for them, not more for me
That can't help me climb a tree in ten seconds flat

When I was a boy, see that picture? That was me
Grass-stained shirt and dusty knees
And I know things have gotta change,
They got pills to sell, they've got implants to put in, they've got implants to
remove
But I am not forgetting
That I was a boy too

And like the woods where I would creep, it's a secret I can keep
Except when I'm tired, except when I'm being caught off guard
I've had a lonesome awful day, the conversation finds its way
To catching fire-flies out in the backyard.
And I tell the man I'm with about the other life I lived
And I say now you're top gun, I have lost and you have won
And he says, "Oh no, no, can't you see
When I was a girl, my mom and I we always talked
And I picked flowers everywhere that I walked.
And I could always cry, now even when I'm alone I seldom do
And I have lost some kindness
But I was a girl too.
And you were just like me, and I was just like you.

Yawn... I can't believe that people are still talking about the child/parents. Look at the damn root of the problem, how the criminal slipped through the system. Our f@#$ed up liberal justice system which lets any sort of criminal get away with a maximum of a few years in jail. As I said before, let's start off with: if you're caught driving drunk and get into a car accident involving another car, you spend the rest of your natural life in prison/doing hard labor.. How many lame fucks would keep drinking and driving after that point... I think everybody knows the answer. Also, how about if you are convicted for robbery, you spend the rest of your natural life in prison/doing hard labor. Anybody finally getting the hint? Sometimes justice with an iron fist brings about a very good society.

You should be pissed about left wing judges that let these guys walk the streets.

His probation officer tried to get him locked
up in december for violations and the fucking judge would not lock him up.

If the judge had done his sworn duty the girl would still be alive.

:feels-hot

Yep, liberals are to blame. It's all part of our conspiracy.

The system was so much easier hundreds of years ago.. These creeps that did this shit again and again were just killed and thrown into a pit somewhere.. That was it :)

Yes partly, (judges) but it's not a conspiracy. It's just the way they view the world and how they think it should be dealt with. Sad!! :(

it's all about the child and how they understand and perceive things. Sheilding them and keeping things from them doesn't allow them to see reality and it will make things worse when they grow up and have to face life on their own. You can only instill good values, ethics and morals and hope that they are smart enough to make the right choices as well as beaware of their surroundings and possiblities.

Some really good points were made. Come to think of it, I Ihave to agree, its true there are places where no one should be walking alone in most every city in the US.

The justice system is indeed the real culprit here. This freaks rap sheet was a mile long. Why wasn't he in jail for good? He's a career criminal from the sounds of things.

For the people that posted that flip out everytime anyone says responsibility belongs to the parents to watch there kids better, I still think it is necessary to do all you can to protect your children by either at the minimum make sure there is another kid with them or a parent if they are going out there alone.

Absolutely agree with you 100%. The real fault lies with the justice system... but the parents have a responsibility to their children to keep them safe. Every parent is going to go about this differently, and to different extents, but the really important thing is to do our best.