If VISA/MC Killed REBILLS tommorow... will you be ready?

[$5 submissions]

Obvious answers:

Dialers

"micro payments"

DuoCash


Any others out there? I'm sure the person(s) who answer this correctly will be the next MarcDe's of this Industry.

[polish_aristocrat]

WTF is DuoCash?

[$5 submissions]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
WTF is DuoCash?

Check their banners on GFY

[fuzebox]

I think paysites will start producing hard-copy content in magazine and dvd form and start selling them in local retailers.

[xxxoutsourcing]

A good international SMS biller will be great, i've seen one, but the surfer has to join with them first and to much bullshift for him to do.
Need one that rebills of course ;)

[- Jesus Christ -]

Yea... what if all your arms and legs fell off???


What kinda of silly speculation is this?

[Thomas]

yes, SMS is the future.
But there are no good ones..

[jas1552]

no

[mrthumbs]

Originally posted by - Jesus Christ -
Yea... what if all your arms and legs fell off???


What kinda of silly speculation is this?

idiot ;) it WILL happen.. actually its strange it didnt happen YET..

Wait and see.. anyone wants to place bets?

[$5 submissions]

Originally posted by xxxoutsourcing
A good international SMS biller will be great, i've seen one, but the surfer has to join with them first and to much bullshift for him to do.
Need one that rebills of course ;)

Rebilling SMS Too bad the telcos in the Philippines are too prudish to touch porn.... at least out in the open.

[$5 submissions]

Originally posted by - Jesus Christ -
Yea... what if all your arms and legs fell off???


What kinda of silly speculation is this?

I'm afraid that assuming that rebilling will persist in its present form is not realistic... given the way things evolve in this industry.

[- Jesus Christ -]

Originally posted by mrthumbs


idiot ;) it WILL happen.. actually its strange it didnt happen YET..

Wait and see.. anyone wants to place bets?

I've got $30 that says it doesnt happen in 2004.


OK if it does I'll be ready... To go back to school.

[$5 submissions]

Originally posted by Thomas
yes, SMS is the future.
But there are no good ones..

Hopefully there's an announcement in 6 months.

[polish_aristocrat]

If they want to kill rebills, they could made it already and announce it with the last regulations.

IMO they could either announce the end of rebills few months ago ( because rebills = more chargebacks ) or new CB limits. They announced new CB requirements, so they decided that the paysites has to find a way to reduce CB's, whether by eliminating auto rebills, or any other methods.
I can eventually see only a new CB rule of fe. 0.7 %, but rather not eliminating auto-rebills.

[$5 submissions]

Originally posted by - Jesus Christ -
I've got $30 that says it doesnt happen in 2004.


OK if it does I'll be ready... To go back to school.

I say stick with it. You're probably learning more about business/dealing with people/gauging change in this fast-paced milieu than any school can teach you.

[Theo]

i have a backup plan which will take 2 weeks at most to be implemented. Having in mind that the majority of paid traffic sources will be available at very low prices in that case I'm estimating crazy returns.

I hope we won't see this scenario happening though.

[polish_aristocrat]

IMO they have no possibility to eliminate rebills only for pornsites.

BTW, anyone has an idea how popular VbV is becoming? I have really no idea.

[$5 submissions]

There are more sly ways to KILL something than outright destruction.

Mandatory rebill emails...

New form procedures for rebills...

Default cancellation until reauthorized...

Many ways....


The point I'm looking at is not so much the form of the death of rebills but rather the REBIRTH of online content subscription sales through new technologies or business models.

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
If they want to kill rebills, they could made it already and announce it with the last regulations.

IMO they could either announce the end of rebills few months ago ( because rebills = more chargebacks ) or new CB limits. They announced new CB requirements, so they decided that the paysites has to find a way to reduce CB's, whether by eliminating auto rebills, or any other methods.
I can eventually see only a new CB rule of fe. 0.7 %, but rather not eliminating auto-rebills.

[mrthumbs]

dude... SMS wont be the solution because this whole fucking
rebilling scheme is a scam. Period.

So even if a SMS solution or WHATEVER rebilling solution
would step in: its just a matter of time and thatll be gone too.

Since mid 2002 we killed rebills from our business model
and we're doing just fine and i sleep a lot better ;)

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
i have a backup plan which will take 2 weeks at most to be implemented. Having in mind that the majority of paid traffic sources will be available at very low prices in that case I'm estimating crazy returns.

You think it's going to be that simple?
With an average bid of $0.06 in PPC SE's, do you think the bids will simply automatically adjust to $.0.02 and webmasters will make the same profits.
Or what other paid traffic sources do you have in mind?

[VeriSexy]

I hope that never happens

[mrthumbs]

Originally posted by mrthumbs
dude... SMS wont be the solution because this whole fucking
rebilling scheme is a scam. Period.

So even if a SMS solution or WHATEVER rebilling solution
would step in: its just a matter of time and thatll be gone too.

Since mid 2002 we killed rebills from our business model
and we're doing just fine and i sleep a lot better ;)

SILENT rebilling scheme's that is.

Any new system that would have a monhly 'confirm rebill' option
or just a notification that you were rebilled would have a chance
to survive.. ;)

[Trax]

pray this doesnt happen

and to those who think that sms billing will be able to cover cc signup and rebills


you guys are living in a dream world

[$5 submissions]

Originally posted by mrthumbs
dude... SMS wont be the solution because this whole fucking
rebilling scheme is a scam. Period.

So even if a SMS solution or WHATEVER rebilling solution
would step in: its just a matter of time and thatll be gone too.

Since mid 2002 we killed rebills from our business model
and we're doing just fine and i sleep a lot better ;)

Please supply URL for discussion purposes

I like your point though....... think outside the rebill box

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by mrthumbs
dude... SMS wont be the solution because this whole fucking
rebilling scheme is a scam. Period.

So even if a SMS solution or WHATEVER rebilling solution
would step in: its just a matter of time and thatll be gone too.

Since mid 2002 we killed rebills from our business model
and we're doing just fine and i sleep a lot better ;)

Mainstream thrives on rebills also, silent and not.

[$5 submissions]

You raise a valid point.

I operate out of the US and the Philippines and I can tell you now... SMS billing will be great in places like the Philippines where people constantly deposit more cash into their phone accounts via prepaid cards. It doesn't take much effort to 'piggyback' payments on prepaid cards to use as 'cash' for other things other than reloading the phone for text messaging and calls.

The problem is in the US... most cellphones are paid via monthly plans. There is a subniche of business users but this may be too small (although nice and lucrative). One good thing this method has going for it is ANONYMITY.

Keep thinking, guys. The future is (probably) just around the corner.

Then again... Im an optimist.

Originally posted by Trax
pray this doesnt happen

and to those who think that sms billing will be able to cover cc signup and rebills


you guys are living in a dream world

[mrthumbs]

Originally posted by stocktrader23


Mainstream thrives on rebills also, silent and not.

true.. but less.. and its way easier to make cash out of mainstream without any (silent) rebill tactics.
Because you can actually think of products that are worth the $$ ;)

The rebill tactics as used by 99% of all adult programs ARE simply A SCAM.

99% of the people on this board make their money with SCAMMING. Really.

And SCAMS/Easy money makers will die eventually. Law of nature.
Specially with SO many retards out there abusing them.

A user signs up out of impulse and gets rebilled for month after
month: additional payments he wouldnt have made if he was asked for it to confirm. And hes not notified after his card is
charged.. on purpose.

If rebills are nuked there will be no more $2.99 trials with $50 payouts.. this also means that 95% of ALL webmasters from this
board (true idiots.. who, without porn, would be flipping burgers.. im serious.. look at those convention pics!!) wont be pushing porn anymore.

This means: you can have quality content paysites, charge $49.95
or $69.95 for a membership (which is fair for quality content and nonstop video). Members like what they see.. and will come back the next month.. or 5 months later for another signup.

Smart people will make more cash (REAL cash) when rebilling is banned. I will at least.

[Theo]

With my backup option 6cents/click won't be a problem. I think as long as AOL.com uses rebills we are safe hehe

sms billing... it's good as additional billing option I guess (although i havent seen many using it so far), but nothing close to a CC alternative.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by - Jesus Christ -
Yea... what if all your arms and legs fell off???


What kinda of silly speculation is this?

Replace "tomorrow" with "in March" and there may be some truth to it.

Are you saying that the current CC billing structure is stable and therefor people should not talk about alternative solutions for billing?

I speculate that Jesus Christ was never a boy scout.

[Theo]

Originally posted by mrthumbs

look at those convention pics!!

[mrthumbs]

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

you KNOW what i mean, and you KNOW im right

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally posted by mrthumbs




The rebill tactics as used by 99% of all adult programs ARE simply A SCAM.

99% of the people on this board make their money with SCAMMING. Really.


A user signs up out of impulse and gets rebilled for month after
month: additional payments he wouldnt have made if he was asked for it to confirm. .

so according to this the average cb ratio should be 10-15%

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally posted by mrthumbs

this also means that 95% of ALL webmasters from this
board (true idiots.. who, without porn, would be flipping burgers.. im serious.. look at those convention pics!!) wont be pushing porn anymore.

dude, I am getting my masters in 6 months.
I wouldn't be flipping burgers...I would work for the United Nations

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat

so according to this the average cb ratio should be 10-15%

Hehe, not to mention as far as I know people who join WANT porn.

[mrthumbs]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat

so according to this the average cb ratio should be 10-15%

If a chargeback was just a matter of pushing a button-no-questions-asked on your CC statement it would be 90% ;)

Thats a lame scenario: i know.

But you know what the results would be if you'd send your members an email "click here to rebill, no response is cancel" before every rebill..and thats my point.

[mrthumbs]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat

dude, I am getting my masters in 6 months.
I wouldn't be flipping burgers...I would work for the United Nations

i know you are in the 5% range :-)

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally posted by mrthumbs


i know you are in the 5% range :-)

when it comes to education - probably yes, when it comes to 5% in porn, than I am far from that yet

[mrthumbs]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat

when it comes to education - probably yes, when it comes to 5% in porn, than I am far from that yet

i meant: you dont belong to the 95% that would be flipping burgers if it wasnt for rebills ;)

[rowan]

When I first started charging for access on one of my webcam archive sites, 2checkout didn't support rebills. All of the transactions were single charges only, with my user management system adding 30 or 90 days depending on the amount they paid. During the last few days of their access the members area showed a small extra box that alerted them to the fact that their subscription was about to run out.

That system worked surprisingly well - once I moved to a more standard biller and added rebills (PSW) my gross dropped significantly. The drop was most likely due to harder adult-style scrubbing, but my point is that I still made a healthy income without rebills.

Verotel offers an interesting feature: smart rebills. The customer gets sent an email near the end of their access period and can authorise a further fee for more access with a single click. (Not sure if they need to verify their a/c with a password or similar, but it's certainly easier than filling out the CC billing form each time.)

[Trax]

Originally posted by rowan
When I first started charging for access on one of my webcam archive sites, 2checkout didn't support rebills. All of the transactions were single charges only, with my user management system adding 30 or 90 days depending on the amount they paid. During the last few days of their access the members area showed a small extra box that alerted them to the fact that their subscription was about to run out.

That system worked surprisingly well - once I moved to a more standard biller and added rebills (PSW) my gross dropped significantly. The drop was most likely due to harder adult-style scrubbing, but my point is that I still made a healthy income without rebills.

Verotel offers an interesting feature: smart rebills. The customer gets sent an email near the end of their access period and can authorise a further fee for more access with a single click. (Not sure if they need to verify their a/c with a password or similar, but it's certainly easier than filling out the CC billing form each time.)

ok on a webcam program this might work
but on the average cookie cutter page

ouch
no

[rowan]

Originally posted by Trax


ok on a webcam program this might work
but on the average cookie cutter page

ouch
no

Agreed! If a site has unique content or something that interests the members then they are more likely to want to stay... but a cookie cutter site full of upsells and crappy blowout content isn't going to fare too well.

[polish_aristocrat]

That's why 2004 is going to be the year of content for ARS...

[Paul Markham]

It saddens me to see the faith some of you guys have in the product put out. Do you think a large percentage of your customers are just letting the card get charged month after month without visiting the site?

Porn consumers are not one off passing trade. They are addicted to what we supply, assuming we supply the right grade. They will keep buying, no matter if it's rebilled automatically or not.

If a guy has logged into a site for a month and jerked off to everything he moves on to his next site, if he finds he cannot log on becasue he has only been able to buy one months subscription he will rebuy or move on to his next site.

When he moves on he becomes a member of another site maybe yours. If he's getting rebilled you are in big danger of getting a 3-4 month chargeback.

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by rowan


Agreed! If a site has unique content or something that interests the members then they are more likely to want to stay... but a cookie cutter site full of upsells and crappy blowout content isn't going to fare too well.

We may be seeing the end of those sites as we speak.

Mrthumbs, I agree with you. It will be good for the industry and bad for the clowns.

[$5 submissions]

Originally posted by goBigtime



Replace "tomorrow" with "in March" and there may be some truth to it.

Are you saying that the current CC billing structure is stable and therefor people should not talk about alternative solutions for billing?

I speculate that Jesus Christ was never a boy scout.

It appears that many webmasters use the following tactic in dealing with the following changes:

1) death of rebill

2) death of popups

3) massive "extreme" porn crackdowns

4) tax sweeps

[Herb Kornfield]

My Friends, the answer to these problems will be revealed shortly.......stay tuned

[chowda]

think alil stupid now

isnt blockbuster one of the biggest rebilling company?

and as for killing rebills.. we probably can still use cc to charge, we just charge a one time fee.

[icedemon]

If Visa/Mastercard said no more rebills, it would be a hard thing to enforce. They can tell the 3rd party billers to stop, but if you have your own merchant account, it would be very hard to know if a merchant was rebilling their customers.

[Hooper]

this is a retarded discussion.

Unless you're Miss Cleo you should really stop trying to create panic when there is no reason to.

I sense.. I feel.. that you have nothing to do with your time.

I see you... without a job.

lol

[BradShaw]

Yes, I would be ready. To fish and retire. But I do not see it happening too soon.