Visa Watch/Break Out list, are you on it?

[BradShaw]

Looks like Visa is starting to enforce their new rules, no real surprise. I understand you have to be under 1% for 90 days to get off the list or be subject to fines then the ax. Fortunately, we were able to get under 1% just in time. Scary shit. Not sure how anyone is able to buy many crosses anymore.......

[Mr.Fiction]

How big do you have to be to be on the list - how many transactions per month?

[detoxed]

Anyone wanting the solution to your chargeback problem just ICQ me. $1000.

[TheDoc]

Good job Brad.. We are sitting at .3-.5% currently.. Fuggin webmasters cost us more fraud than anything.

For anyone that wants to know how it works, for the most part..

If you are under 100 CB's a month you can be over 1% by a little and not be in trouble. If you are over 100 CB's in a month you have to be under 1%.

[BradShaw]

I believe the magic # is 100 VISA CB's a month.

[- Jesus Christ -]

Mastercard > visa.


I wish visa would jsut fucking go away.

Anyone who uses a VISA credit card is a dink.

[axelcat]

visa is ruthless

[TheJimmy]

I just checked....



yuppp, I'm fine....



thanks for asking....

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

VIsa is just breaking ground, MasterCard will follow.
Give it some time.

Grats Brad once again on over comming the odd's.
I know many won't.

[Rich]

The companies who can still buy xsells are largely those who have some sort of $1/month type sites on the side. I can't imagine anyone charges back $1, so racking up a couple thousand of those memberships every month is a pretty good way to stay in the clear.

[p1mpdogg]

post the list, lets see who the morons are that are over the 1%

[TheJimmy]

Originally posted by Rich
The companies who can still buy xsells are largely those who have some sort of $1/month type sites on the side. I can't imagine anyone charges back $1, so racking up a couple thousand of those memberships every month is a pretty good way to stay in the clear.

shhhhh, don't let the cat out ;-)

[RP Fade]

We're good too..just checked paycom...got alot of room to spare thankfully

Thanks BradShaw..

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally posted by RP Fade
We're good too..just checked paycom...got alot of room to spare thankfully

Thanks BradShaw..

VERY GOOD TO HEAR

[HarlotCash Dyker]

Originally posted by Rich
The companies who can still buy xsells are largely those who have some sort of $1/month type sites on the side. I can't imagine anyone charges back $1, so racking up a couple thousand of those memberships every month is a pretty good way to stay in the clear.

True - But is it worth losing so much per sign up to the banks - And then re-risking the cb to an upsell to your own products (in many cases).
Greed and trying to defeat the system is going to result in many bitten bums -

Sweet
Because those fuckers who continue to screw the system are continuing to screw this business tighter into the visa corner

[corvette]

Originally posted by detoxed
Anyone wanting the solution to your chargeback problem just ICQ me. $1000.

thats funny

[Kimmykim]

Originally posted by - Jesus Christ -
Mastercard > visa.


I wish visa would jsut fucking go away.

Anyone who uses a VISA credit card is a dink.

You forget that Mastercard's been at a lower allowable cb threshhold for way longer? Or that Mastercard can and does reserve the right to fine for credits issued as well as chargebacks, at their discretion, and that they have fined people for credits previously?

Mastercard is no more a solution than Visa is at the end of the day.

[Peaches]

Just thought I'd take this opportunity to mention CHECKS.

[reynold]

Originally posted by Rich
The companies who can still buy xsells are largely those who have some sort of $1/month type sites on the side. I can't imagine anyone charges back $1, so racking up a couple thousand of those memberships every month is a pretty good way to stay in the clear.

Its basically INSURANCE money. But I wonder what the effects of popup blockers and new anti spam laws would be to PPS bottomline

[Shap]

Sitting at 0.28% here

[- Jesus Christ -]

Originally posted by Kimmykim


You forget that Mastercard's been at a lower allowable cb threshhold for way longer? Or that Mastercard can and does reserve the right to fine for credits issued as well as chargebacks, at their discretion, and that they have fined people for credits previously?

Mastercard is no more a solution than Visa is at the end of the day.

Im talking about from the users end. I don't care that crappy sites get shut down. Its good for the industry In the long run. I don't know if a minimum percentage is the way to go about it, But fraudulent adult web sites are a HUGE problem.

[Kimmykim]

Originally posted by - Jesus Christ -
Im talking about from the users end. I don't care that crappy sites get shut down. Its good for the industry In the long run. I don't know if a minimum percentage is the way to go about it, But fraudulent adult web sites are a HUGE problem.

From the users end? Visa and Mastercard work 99.9% the same from the surfers end, other than the logo there's really nothing different, just that some banks have marketing agreements with Visa,some with Mastercard...

[- Jesus Christ -]

My visa has been rejected when I went to test numerous adult sites.

I have never had my platinum mastercard turned down at a single adult website.

From my experience visa cardholders are scrubbed off more often then mastercard users, but I cant say I've signed up for enough sites to know if that is 100% accurate; just accurate for many of the sponsors I have promoted.

[Kimmykim]

Actually Mastercard scrub should be harder than Visa scrub -- for the reason that Mastercard can and will bust your nuts with fines on credits.

The whole thing sucks at this point, but such is life.

[On-top]

Several of our clients were hovering around the 1.5% for a while before this came out. They've all been able to squeeze into the <1% group in the last 2 months as far as I can tell.

It's a tough play to make, but everybody knew it was coming. And it will be good for the industry overall.

[NetRodent]

I may be mistaken but it looks like you can tell who's on the watch list by looking at the billing descriptor on their pay-pages. If they're not on the watch list the descriptor would look like "ipsp * sponsored merchant". If they are on the watch list, the descriptor would reverse to "sponsored merchant * ipsp".

There may be other reasons why the billing descriptor could be reversed, but if not some of the posters in this thread are over 1%.

[BradShaw]

I sure hope they get the scammers and the idiots.. But something tells me the scammers are too smart to get caught up in visa riff raff.

[detoxed]

Originally posted by NetRodent
I may be mistaken but it looks like you can tell who's on the watch list by looking at the billing descriptor on their pay-pages. If they're not on the watch list the descriptor would look like "ipsp * sponsored merchant". If they are on the watch list, the descriptor would reverse to "sponsored merchant * ipsp".

There may be other reasons why the billing descriptor could be reversed, but if not some of the posters in this thread are over 1%.

That doesnt make much sense, why would they do that?

[NetRodent]

Originally posted by detoxed


That doesnt make much sense, why would they do that?

When you're in the monitoring program Visa is watching the sponsored merchant, not the IPSP. It makes it easier to for them to track across multiple IPSP's I suppose.

[Sausage]

Visa is so big it takes some time for them to notice that your blip is above the radar and by that time its easy to jump to one of the merchant accounts you have set up in prep.

Many guys burn out a different account weekly, and move their $ around just as quick. You would be amazed how easy it is to set up a merchant account to process american visas in most countries.

[Rich]

Originally posted by reynold


Its basically INSURANCE money. But I wonder what the effects of popup blockers and new anti spam laws would be to PPS bottomline

What anti spam laws?

[Rich]

Originally posted by Sausage
Visa is so big it takes some time for them to notice that your blip is above the radar and by that time its easy to jump to one of the merchant accounts you have set up in prep.

Many guys burn out a different account weekly, and move their $ around just as quick. You would be amazed how easy it is to set up a merchant account to process american visas in most countries.

Oh yeah this strategy is can't miss, why doesn't everyone just do that? lol

You would be amazed how easy it is for Visa to kill everyone but the smartest people in this industry, and they will. Of coarse the smartest people are the ones working on new payment methods, thanks to assholes like you.

[Sausage]

Originally posted by Rich


Oh yeah this strategy is can't miss, why doesn't everyone just do that? lol

You would be amazed how easy it is for Visa to kill everyone but the smartest people in this industry, and they will. Of coarse the smartest people are the ones working on new payment methods, thanks to assholes like you.

Oh ... take a step back there, where did I ever say I was even entertaining doing that, currently doing it, or even did it once? I just know some who do it with a level of success. They are pushing through millions a month so they can afford the few $k cost of setting up.

[kmanrox]

Originally posted by BradShaw
I believe the magic # is 100 VISA CB's a month.

theres no fucking way someone with your volume of signups does less than 100CB's per month....

[BradShaw]

Originally posted by kmanrox


theres no fucking way someone with your volume of signups does less than 100CB's per month....

I never said I was under 100cb's. Under 1%.

[kmanrox]

Originally posted by BradShaw


I never said I was under 100cb's. Under 1%.

very well... carry on, private...

[davidd]

Originally posted by BradShaw
Looks like Visa is starting to enforce their new rules, no real surprise. I understand you have to be under 1% for 90 days to get off the list or be subject to fines then the ax. Fortunately, we were able to get under 1% just in time. Scary shit. Not sure how anyone is able to buy many crosses anymore.......

For the record FlashCa$h remains well under 1% and has not been 'broken out'.

I wish other programs could state the same, but sadly some of the other PPS sponsors have already been broken out, and will shortly be without processing.

-dd

"Will your current source of revenue be around in 60 days?"

[MR FUCKYOURSELF]

how can you find out whos on and whos not

[NetRodent]

Originally posted by MR FUCKYOURSELF
how can you find out whos on and whos not

Look at their credit card pages.

[Carrie]

Battus posted a *small* list last night... too small, methinks. Interesting who had the sponsor*IPSP thing switched around though.

[Carrie]

Originally posted by Rich


Oh yeah this strategy is can't miss, why doesn't everyone just do that? lol

You would be amazed how easy it is for Visa to kill everyone but the smartest people in this industry, and they will. Of coarse the smartest people are the ones working on new payment methods, thanks to assholes like you.

Whoa now... Sausage is one of the good guys. He was just commenting on what he's seen other programs do. He gets to see a number of them from behind the scenes, so to speak.

[VeriSexy]

Visa

[Joesho]

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Actually Mastercard scrub should be harder than Visa scrub -- for the reason that Mastercard can and will bust your nuts with fines on credits.

The whole thing sucks at this point, but such is life.

if it was not for all the scam artist that now refer to themselves as the elite this would not have happened.....

but the banks have no choice but to protect their customers, and things like redirection, fraud, and unauthorized billing hmmm and lets say something like those dialers...gave them no choice.... do you think any mainstream companies have this problem..... yep but I bet if you look deeper it is only the ones that scam their customers as well.......

[Hooper]

Quick Buck and Conversion Cash have been VERY proactive with our billing models.

We stopped accepting cross sales in September but most importantly we began lowering the recurring rate on most of our sites.

So in summary, we're not on the breakout list

[synergysex]

Originally posted by Joesho
but the banks have no choice but to protect their customers, and things like redirection, fraud, and unauthorized billing hmmm and lets say something like those dialers...gave them no choice.... do you think any mainstream companies have this problem..... yep but I bet if you look deeper it is only the ones that scam their customers as well.......

Banks dont care about thier customers and neither does Visa. Its all about money. People dont matter to them - money does.

Visa loves fraud. They make millions anually from it. There is the chargeback fee and then they charge the discount rate twice. Trust me, I know what I am talking about - I used to work for a major third party billing provider and I learned all the games they pull.

If Visa and MC wanted to, they could stamp out fraud just like that. But why would they stamp out something that generates millions of dollars in revenue every year for them? Thier processor agreements put the responsibility for stopping fraud on merchants and they provide few tools to do so and the ones they do provide are ineffective or easily circumvented.

Visa and Mastercard both run cardmills. They give credit cards to people who have no money, no cedit and no responsibility. If you can sign your name and lie, they'll give you a credit card. And when you screw up, they'll take them away and then you can get a "secured" card. I was 12 when I got my first Visa from Providian. By 14, I had over $10,000 in total combined credit limits between several cards - all Visas and Mastercards. I didnt have a job at the time and all the income information on my applications was completly made up. But they still gave them to me. People like that are very likely to charge back ('friendly fraud') than your 40 year old who makes $45K a year running the 3rd shift at a machine shop.

You can bet your tush if Visa ate every chargeback they'd be much more concerned. But they don't. Instead, they work to make customers belive that they do eat the cost of fraud so they can justify thier ridclious intrest rates.

Credit cards are the biggest scam going in America. And they have everyone hooked - merchants, customers and banks. Its a good idea for everyone to work to find ways to make your business not dependant on credit cards. Offer other payment options and be prepared to switch to them if needed.

Everyone wins except the merchant and the customer. What a great deal for the banks!

[Trax]

would love to take a look at that list lol
i know some names who are on there for sure

[Shap]

NetRodent, I looked over what you said. Researched some sites and your theory seems accurate. It puts ARS on the watchlist, which is no surprise. It seems to hold true for Ibill. Have you found it the same with other ipsps?

[Dirty F]

Originally posted by Carrie
Battus posted a *small* list last night... too small, methinks. Interesting who had the sponsor*IPSP thing switched around though.

Huh? You must be talking about someone else.

[Brat]

Originally posted by synergysex


Visa loves fraud. They make millions anually from it. There is the chargeback fee and then they charge the discount rate twice. Trust me, I know what I am talking about - I used to work for a major third party billing provider and I learned all the games they pull.

If Visa and MC wanted to, they could stamp out fraud just like that.

um...what??? are you serious?
I work for Visa (specfically for a Canadian bank). We lose tons of money from fraud. We do NOT, EVER EVER make money off it. We charge no dispute fees. Hell, most of the time someone calls us FREAKING out about a charge on their account. We start the investigation which takes time and money. Then 5 days later the same idiot calls back 'ohh.. I know what that charge is now on my bill. So you can stop the investigation'.

People are so freaked out about fraud that the slightest suspiscious thing makes them go nuts.
If people are so worried about fraud. Don't apply for a credit card. If you NEED the credit card, then there are certain precautions that can be taken.

Your credit card and expiry date is recorded on every receipt. Keep the receipts. Don't throw them on the sidewalk the minute you walk out the store. When your monthly statement comes in, check off what matches. Now blacken the number and expiry date with a marker. If you're making internet purchases, do your homework first. Look for any feedback about the merchant. As much as possible, try to use 'Verified by Visa'


Anyways.. point is, Visa does NOT like fraud. We invest millions of dollars in fraud monitoring systems. And you know what the worst part is. I have clients calling me fuckin yelling their heads off because they're off on vacation somewhere and they just tried spending 1000 on their visa and WOOPS, our fraud system caught it and flagged it. Then they call and threaten to cancel their card when all they had to do was call our 24 hour our collect number and say 'yeh it's me.. im making that purchase.'

Jesus, people will never be happy. Visa tries to protect, we get bitched at. It's a lose-lose situation.

I agree about the making money part. There are annual fees, high interest rates, high cash advance fees, foreign exchange fees. But we LOSE money with fraud.