Who here got sick of shaving and questionable stats that they ..........

[Juicy D. Links]

Who here got sick of shaving and questionable stats that they .......... eventually started there own sites and send the traffic there?

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Not me but I bet when people open there own sites they see truly how much there traffic is worth.

That could be a good thing or a bad thing

[quiet]

did that a very long time ago.

[Murderous]

I have recently gone to doing mostly CCbill stuff.

[EscortBiz]

Shaving has been around back when people where promoting phone sex, at the time I decided to build my own phone network and ever since promoted my own stuff.

Shaving is real and many programs especially the private stats etc shave.

The only reason I dont take my stuff in house is to give affiliates peace of mind.

If you promote sponsors for a while youll figure it all out.

[LasseKongos]

I do but I use dialer instead....

[KRL]

The shaving issue is really misunderstood. Most companies aren't maliciously trying to ripoff webmasters, just trying to recoup their investment after paying so much upfront on trials and low cost memberships to stay competitive in the marketplace.

[EscortBiz]

Originally posted by KRL
The shaving issue is really misunderstood. Most companies aren't maliciously trying to ripoff webmasters, just trying to recoup their investment after paying so much upfront on trials and low cost memberships to stay competitive in the marketplace.

People still ask me why should I promote a revshare when I can get $35 a trial signup, these people really never tracked numbers or compared the both, fuck them!

[EscortBiz]

Originally posted by KRL
The shaving issue is really misunderstood. Most companies aren't maliciously trying to ripoff webmasters, just trying to recoup their investment after paying so much upfront on trials and low cost memberships to stay competitive in the marketplace.

I remember paying off a programmer at a large audiotext company in Florida (now gone hit me up if you want to know who it was info at hotlocalescorts.com)

They had a complete system for shaving your call reports, they had a list in their DB of where you live and different area codes you use, they would never shave those calls and show you those ANI's, little did people know.

[kmanrox]

well all big programs shave, so i guess that makes most of us idiots for having sent them traffic?

[KRL]

Originally posted by EscortBiz


I remember paying off a programmer at a large audiotext company in Florida (now gone hit me up if you want to know who it was info at hotlocalescorts.com)

They had a complete system for shaving your call reports, they had a list in their DB of where you live and different area codes you use, they would never shave those calls and show you those ANI's, little did people know.

I have a good idea who that is. Yep the audiotext biz too common practice.

[Trax]

me for sure

[EscortBiz]

Originally posted by KRL


I have a good idea who that is. Yep the audiotext biz too common practice.

Then I remember the guys running 473/464 numbers where ANI is not supplied real time, they would show all calls but cut the minutes.

[XxXotic]

i did, 2nd site being wrapped up, more to come

[KRL]

Originally posted by EscortBiz


Then I remember the guys running 473/464 numbers where ANI is not supplied real time, they would show all calls but cut the minutes.

Bottom line you can't trust anyone hardly.

[Juicy D. Links]

Originally posted by KRL
The shaving issue is really misunderstood. Most companies aren't maliciously trying to ripoff webmasters, just trying to recoup their investment after paying so much upfront on trials and low cost memberships to stay competitive in the marketplace.

True true true

[Juicy D. Links]

Originally posted by EscortBiz


People still ask me why should I promote a revshare when I can get $35 a trial signup, these people really never tracked numbers or compared the both, fuck them!

I have been using this revshare sponsor for about 3 years now.

Granted I went about 16 months or so not doing any porn stuff full force , but it amazes me the better conversions and more money long term per signup.

[doober]

[EscortBiz]

Originally posted by juicylinks



I have been using this revshare sponsor for about 3 years now.

Granted I went about 16 months or so not doing any porn stuff full force , but it amazes me the better conversions and more money long term per signup.

thank you!

[gornyhuy]

I would love to do this, but I'm still at the stage where just managing to harvest a lot of quality traffic is the challenge. Adding paysite/content management and constant acquisition of new quality shoots seems way too daunting to me right now.

I guess shaving is a tax on the lazy/intimidated.

[Cindyff]

Originally posted by EscortBiz


People still ask me why should I promote a revshare when I can get $35 a trial signup, these people really never tracked numbers or compared the both, fuck them!

You are correct, its all about the "now" and no thought to the future. We have been in this industry 7 years now and started promoting busty-amatuers. Their affiliate program made us much much more than any $70 per sign up will ever do. The recurring's just kept going up and up if you find a good sponsor with good sites that have updated exclusive content and you send them quality traffic you will make money, sometimes you will make a lot ? When BA closed in 2001 we swapped around and tried various programs none of which made us very much at all, we tried per click per sign up and about 20 affiliate programs until we signed up with our present sponsors, since then we have stuck with these guys for almost 4 years now and don't have a single complaint.

[gornyhuy]

Originally posted by EscortBiz


People still ask me why should I promote a revshare when I can get $35 a trial signup, these people really never tracked numbers or compared the both, fuck them!

For example: TushyCash rebills rock!

[Ray@TastyDollars]

Originally posted by juicylinks
Who here got sick of shaving and questionable stats that they .......... eventually started there own sites and send the traffic there?

In the works

[GSpotShawn]

Originally posted by juicylinks



I have been using this revshare sponsor for about 3 years now.

Granted I went about 16 months or so not doing any porn stuff full force , but it amazes me the better conversions and more money long term per signup.

Amen. Problem being people want cash cash cash cash now in hand and don't look at the long term numbers. I won't brag or say numbers but if you promote a revshare and pps side by side throughout a year you'll see the difference drastically.

Personally I think the reason a lot of people promote PPS is because they don't want to, or don't know how, to filter traffic and find qualified hits for a product. They send to PPS to make the join for $XX and forget about it, the sponsor takes the join and pays out but often does a lot of shady things in the process to break even/make profit.

To be honest with you I'd like to have internal affiliate software to track hits, sales, and be able to cascade. The problem is the trust issue, maybe do something as crazy as allow someone to view the master processor stats (who knows).

my

[chAos]

You all seem amazed that you get shaved... Escort is right .. in the audiotext biz terminations used to be thrown to England to shave people all the time .. I do not think that anyone that is running their own stats program shave there are other reasons for it .. we do not shave but had to write our own software to be able to bill through multiple companies...

here is something that i came up with ... if a sponsor is paying more than 25 a join they are shaving .. the mathmatics work out on 25 a join with almost any program when they get above that they are using a 10 to 20 percent shave... I have just come to accept it .. when you send 100 + joins a day they are going to shave you... that is the way of this business.. and if you do not like it then do not send traffic.. there are some really good sponsors out there that are big and do not shave use them and stick with it... but it is really simple if you make good money with the sponsor who gives a fuck if they shave you they are paying you enough money to keep your traffic so why complain......

after so many years of doing this it is something that you just accept... also dialers LOL .. that is the best way to shave if you know how they work and where the terminations are .... LOL

[JDog]

Originally posted by kmanrox
well all big programs shave, so i guess that makes most of us idiots for having sent them traffic?

This is actually not true! Not all big programs shave! And nobody can ever give real proof that there is shaving going on, except the perfection girls one! I don't think many of the programs shave, but some of the big ones shave!

JDoG

[bigdog]

Revshare does not mean less shaving. Many revshare spnsors have their own stats now, with no way of you seeing the processor stats.

[BV]

Originally posted by bigdog
Revshare does not mean less shaving. Many revshare spnsors have their own stats now, with no way of you seeing the processor stats.

how's that? examples?

[liquidmoe]

There is a grain of truth in every lie so its obvious that programs shave. But it shouldn't matter, you should send your hits to a variety of programs, figure out which work best for you, and stick with it. Whether they shave or not is irrelevant, you should be able to figure out how much your traffic is worth, if its converting and giving you the amount you expect the shaving shouldnt concern you, if you arent meeting your estimates, then its time to look for other sponsors or consider starting your own sites, just dont forget how much overhead you'll incur when you just bring them up.

[EscortBiz]

Originally posted by bigdog
Revshare does not mean less shaving. Many revshare spnsors have their own stats now, with no way of you seeing the processor stats.

I only promote sites with third party stats and payouts regardless how good the offer is.

I dont make the same mistake twice.

[EscortBiz]

Originally posted by liquidmoe
There is a grain of truth in every lie so its obvious that programs shave. But it shouldn't matter, you should send your hits to a variety of programs, figure out which work best for you, and stick with it. Whether they shave or not is irrelevant, you should be able to figure out how much your traffic is worth, if its converting and giving you the amount you expect the shaving shouldnt concern you, if you arent meeting your estimates, then its time to look for other sponsors or consider starting your own sites, just dont forget how much overhead you'll incur when you just bring them up.

starting real exclsuive sites cost more then most people think.

[Jive]

Originally posted by kmanrox
well all big programs shave, so i guess that makes most of us idiots for having sent them traffic?

*the corruption in the ranks be it sponsor or processor?*
some processors are owned by these fraudulent sponsors

not only that but, ripping you at though processor level is the worst! seeing any sponsor/program can shave in the admin panels! then you can't win your just shaved to death.

Ibill,CCbill etc and others should remove these features because its allowing the sponsor what ever program there promoting or using to burn webmasters and this isn't legal.. 'in my opinion'

infact by not playing honest your crippling the industry by not playing straight because of the slow death thats being introduce online for the adult world.. there's only so many webmasters building and retaining traffic and the quality may not be there..
again if you do the math on this one. if this shaving continues from the sponsors then this said webmaster won't build sites anymore nor chase down traffic to be sent to the sponsors
because then money won't be there for him? Nor will there be any money made from the sponsor! it just goes all the choo-choo track/food chain..you squezze the webmaster to much then he's gone..then over all the adult biz suffers, traffic de-creases.

" correct.."

anyways in a nutshell I'm shocked that these processors have made these tools available so sponsored/programs can cheat the promoter or webmaster be it revshare or a regular program..
now this is fraud period in my books and I see alot of staff in great numbers dropping like flys as well now you see the damage.
thats been done.. the falling sponsors crumbling empires are seen in the reduced numbers..

"and it reverts to a carnival.."
the shows old everyone has sen it and then know one shows up anymore. you've stopped pleasing everyone..

[VeriSexy]

Originally posted by quiet
did that a very long time ago.

Quiet is a smart man

[Smokey The Bear]

Originally posted by VeriSexy



Quiet is a smart man

Quiet is a man ???

[Jive]

Originally posted by bigdog
Revshare does not mean less shaving. Many revshare spnsors have their own stats now, with no way of you seeing the processor stats.

all sponsors using the CC processors are able to shave the webmasters/promoters using IBILL,CCBILL,, havingb access to the admin panels shaving option be it rollovers from trials.. to burning on the 3rd months etc.. they need to clear this crap up..
time is running out and webmasters are more ware of this..

having these options to burn/shave the webmasters at the processor level is really stupid.. screwing/cheating the webmasters will only make them go outta business then the sponsor gets know traffic! this doesn't make sense one bit to me that is..yes the quick let's "get rich plan" was there in there minds.

its one big fuck job now adays..
(90% of the reported sponsors are shaving very heavy)

[Jive]

Originally posted by GSpotShawn


Amen. Problem being people want cash cash cash cash now in hand and don't look at the long term numbers. I won't brag or say numbers but if you promote a revshare and pps side by side throughout a year you'll see the difference drastically.

Personally I think the reason a lot of people promote PPS is because they don't want to, or don't know how, to filter traffic and find qualified hits for a product. They send to PPS to make the join for $XX and forget about it, the sponsor takes the join and pays out but often does a lot of shady things in the process to break even/make profit.

To be honest with you I'd like to have internal affiliate software to track hits, sales, and be able to cascade. The problem is the trust issue, maybe do something as crazy as allow someone to view the master processor stats (who knows).

my

you said,
Amen. Problem being people want cash cash cash cash now in hand and don't look at the long term numbers. I won't brag or say numbers but if you promote a revshare and pps side by side throughout a year you'll see the difference drastically.

this idea use to work in principle the long term revshare plan wise a good gamble I still have rebills back 2-3 yrs ago form revshare programs that never shot me off and the processor level.. they were Honest but, now adays. there's really no difference in what program you use? your still shaved and fucked!

the best to pickup outta choice would be the payout up front plan.. most a trial program to see if the signup rolls over, then you know the program is running honestly at the time being.

if you play with the no trial payed up front for the month programs that frankly don't get good ratios becuase the surfer buyers don't want to pay the full month up front be it $25.00 or $29.95 so the sponsor has a problem with this.. so there dropping prices down to $19.95 but does this work perhaps alittle better for them!.. there still passing far les money to the promoting webmasters.. the webmaster will always loose..

I saw a few "new programs" that opened and closed there paysites becuase the screw job at the processor level..

the processors are becoming dirty? perhaps..

[Ben-MensNiche]

Originally posted by kmanrox
well all big programs shave, so i guess that makes most of us idiots for having sent them traffic?

Not true, we don't shave - in fact we have strict policies against it. The bottom line is, affiliates make us money, if we shaved, we'd eventually get caught out and the word would get out and we'd end up losing money.

[Jive]

Originally posted by Ben-MensNiche


Not true, we don't shave - in fact we have strict policies against it. The bottom line is, affiliates make us money, if we shaved, we'd eventually get caught out and the word would get out and we'd end up losing money.

I'll look into you further..
you should open more niches?

also I might drop into the Vancouver show? seeing I reside there..

not to sure I'm not liking most idiots who are attending there?
seeing there's mostly bullshit pouring outta there yaps..

[Jive]

Originally posted by juicylinks



True true true

but certainly not with this scumbag hoopers
conversioncash scam! moron..

they shave you to death.. same with most of them..

[Ben-MensNiche]

Originally posted by GSpotShawn

Personally I think the reason a lot of people promote PPS is because they don't want to, or don't know how, to filter traffic and find qualified hits for a product. They send to PPS to make the join for $XX and forget about it, the sponsor takes the join and pays out but often does a lot of shady things in the process to break even/make profit.

my

I agree with GSpotShawn here - if you want killer conversions, you have to filter all your traffic, don't just blindly send it all to one sponsor or site - filter it through a qualification process which promotes the sites and sponsors you're going to send your surfer to. Send other surfers to other filter pages which promote other sponsors or sites. What's the point in sending 100,000 uniques to 1 sponsor if you know you're going to get 10,000 interested surfers, and of those, only 500 sales. Also, when you're building tour pages, take into account where the traffic is coming from - don't promote penis enlargement pills if your search traffic coming from Google is for something not closely related.

If you filter your traffic, then you only send the 10,000 interested surfers to your sponsor to get your 500 sales, leaving the other 90,000 clicks to use on something that's going to make you money.

The trick is to qualify your surfer before you send them to your sponsor - the fewer people you send to your sponsor and the more closely you qualify them, the greater your conversion rate will be. The trick is, you only really want to send the 500 through that are going to buy, meaning you have 99,500 surfers to send to your other programs.

Another tip I'll give people coming into the business is don't expect money for nothing - you won't make money by doing a half assed job, sure you might make $50 here and there for the odd signup, but if you're looking for a primary income you've gotta do the leg work - the research, the design and the foresight to take your site forward. Webmasters doing a half assed job are ten a penny, and they're falling by the wayside fast. This industry is no different than mainstream in that aspect.

If anyone needs tips and tricks to help them put a plan together that will work, hit me up on ICQ, I can help you out with ideas.

[Jive]

Originally posted by Ben-MensNiche


Not true, we don't shave - in fact we have strict policies against it. The bottom line is, affiliates make us money, if we shaved, we'd eventually get caught out and the word would get out and we'd end up losing money.

I think most of the sponsors started out that way..
when they step over that forbidden line and then they start pissing webmasters off!. shaving and burning!..
there reputation is but a memory! all the cheerleaders are all but gone..the online adult industry is infact introuble by all the free
TGP crap being spewed out daily will kill the adult world. not completely but the larger portion of sponsors will be gone..
there pretty much one company anyways.. just different looking front ends. sorta like a burger stand.. whats the difference?
Poeple like the TGP builders must change there ways and lessen the free content as I've mentioned thie years ago,.. stop giving the farm away.. just give the surfer a tickle/taste not free movies
and tons of other goodies! what the fuck is this.. this hurts the retention of the buyers actually and the memberships are not staying.. why because there not marketing properly..

and 80% of the idiots out there don't know how to retain buyers.

you should hire someone that knows the industry.. like myself
a think tank machine..he. he. no i'm not joking..I have a perfect track record in dreaming up typein traffic.. good day..

[$5 submissions]

Originally posted by AlienQ
Not me but I bet when people open there own sites they see truly how much there traffic is worth.

That could be a good thing or a bad thing

Hmmmmm I am thinking of doing the same.

[4Pics]

the average surfer from what I hear recurs 1.5 months or less now.

So why take $39.95 * 1.5 / 2 = $29.95 when I can get $35?

It also makes it very difficult to figure a real cost per click on surfers if you do revshare, but with per signup you get the #'s now and can make adjustments immediately to your ppc ads.

There's a need for both types of programs but I'm more in favor of PPS.

Also there is no need to shave at $30-35 for a signup.

[zeus ent.]

Originally posted by KRL
The shaving issue is really misunderstood. Most companies aren't maliciously trying to ripoff webmasters, just trying to recoup their investment after paying so much upfront on trials and low cost memberships to stay competitive in the marketplace.

So companies who are lying, stealing from and misleading webmasters is a misunderstanding? LOL

Shady business practices is more like it

[Jive]

Originally posted by $5 submissions



Hmmmmm I am thinking of doing the same.

sure go head, open some you'll find a different picture and you'll see the corruption at the processr level..you can't beat this..
you'll be shaved there..this happened to me.. the processors will shave you or kill your account..and then you can open a revshare and inturn shave the webmaster? this will be the end result..

I have used Ibill for along time.. but my revokes are much more than the income it's pulling not to mention the charge backs..

you be treated the same way you pull your program because lack of earnings and end back at the shaving sponsors..
or you'll sell out if you have any value built up..this is what you'll might be facing..

unless for involved with THEM anyways? go for it post your finds

[Jive]

Originally posted by zeus ent.



So companies who are lying, stealing from and misleading webmasters is a misunderstanding? LOL

Shady business practices is more like it

whats not to understand? the sponsor shave and cheat to get the traffic for free period. they suck the webmasters for what it's worth then see how lont there program wil run for..much like:
example: http:/maxcash.com they sucked it dry al the traffic killed off all the webmasters slaughtered them and it fell apart.
I'm sure they have several other programs just with different front ends plug into there members area.. there all diong this method.. suck the system dry for what it;s worth?
my opinion.. the downhill in sponsors from failing internext shows
aren't drwing the crowds anymore because of the constant screw job passed onto the webmasters.. it's handed down the food chain..there's far less newbies out there for a reason.. the shaving is killing the industry..

[Shoplifter]

I got into this business in the opposite manner from most...I started with my own sites in 98 and only tried affiliate work about a year ago as I had some extra server capacity and cos I was curious.

There is no doubt that shaving, especially in the PPS model is completely rampant in the industry. I feel that shaving is on so many minds these days that it is going to be the next big crisis.

As well the perception of dishonesty is not being dealt with properly by legitimate programs. The program that displays a reputable audit of their legitimacy will have a big advantage.
Same goes with the PPS software systems. Saying that it doesn't shave unless the client asks for it with their installation casts doubt on EVERY installation of the software.

Contrary to what you may think, honesty is good business. Having a decent members area and not robbing your affiliates will get you farther in the long run.

[Ben-MensNiche]

Originally posted by Shoplifter
I got into this business in the opposite manner from most...I started with my own sites in 98 and only tried affiliate work about a year ago as I had some extra server capacity and cos I was curious.

There is no doubt that shaving, especially in the PPS model is completely rampant in the industry. I feel that shaving is on so many minds these days that it is going to be the next big crisis.

As well the perception of dishonesty is not being dealt with properly by legitimate programs. The program that displays a reputable audit of their legitimacy will have a big advantage.
Same goes with the PPS software systems. Saying that it doesn't shave unless the client asks for it with their installation casts doubt on EVERY installation of the software.

Contrary to what you may think, honesty is good business. Having a decent members area and not robbing your affiliates will get you farther in the long run.

I'll stand by that. Dishonest programs and dishonest webmasters are going to destroy the industry to the point that of the few honest webmasters left, there will probably only be a couple left standing when the war is over.