The Truth Hurts

50 sellouts.


I like to call it "Sheep hunting".



But seriously, I understand perfectly what's happening.

I got my ACACIA junk mail just like everyone else did.

I scanned it, deposited it into the garbage, and then came here to watch the inevitable hysteria.



Gee, haven't gotten that one in almost a week.


Also, because I?m the curious type, why is it that you used "arse" instead of "ass", but had no problem with "balls" or "fuck"?

roscoe98

Ok maybe im missing something here...

When they say "our affiliates wont be touched" how do they tend to do this?

Will they...give Acacia info on all their affiliates?

I mean if i was to get a letter do i tell them "oh im am affiliate with blah blah"
and all is right with the world?

How excatly are they gonna do this?

The thoughts of personal info given to acacia from sponsors is not my idea of a good thing.

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hornycash

i don't care

PMdave

Maybe something like not suing owners of sites that link only to their sites?

- AFN -

acacia should be burn down fuck it

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Carrie

For the folks saying/thinking "so what" and continuing to support these sponsors...

Acacia is not the only company with streaming video patents who are actively working to collect licensing fees.
There are two more currently with overlapping patents and they *will* get to us eventually; they just chose to focus on mainstream first because unlike Acacia they actually *do* have the capital to take on big targets. They don't need to squeeze the "low-hanging fruit" (Acacia's words) for money.

If you sign with Acacia, you set a precedent for other companies to sign.
And you also set a precedent to sign with the next two companies... who, by the way, want far more than 2%.

Let's see. As a program owner you payout 50% to affiliates. 15% or so for processing. Pump another 20% back into content, design, and hosting.
Now you're up to 85%. For every $100 your site makes, you get $15 whopping bucks.

But wait... Acacia wants their piece too. Not 2% of what you've got left, but 2% right off of the top. So that's 87%, lowering your take to $13 for every $100 you take in.
And not only do they want the 2% for the money you take in off of signups, they also want it off of all of your upsells. All of your exits. All of your cross-sells. Why? Well, according to them, there's no way possible to tell exactly how much money you're making from streaming video, so they are entitled to 2% of *everything* you make from *all* sources.

The two companies coming behind them want more. Let's keep it low and say 5% and 7% respectively.
That brings you up to 99% paying out.
For every $100 you bring in, you get $1.

One measly dollar.

And here's the kicker... they're not just after program owners. They're also after solo webmasters who do nothing more than build galleries and free sites etc and send traffic to sponsors. They would require you to gather up all of your check stubs from all of your sponsors and report that amount to them... and then pay them 2% of the gross that you received.
Didn't receive much? Don't make much? No problem... they have a minimum fee of $1500.

That's $125 a month, people. To a company that does *nothing* to help you increase your bottom line. To a company that does *nothing* to help you sit there for hours building sites. No content for that $125. No Google traffic for it. No galleries built for it.
You get NOTHING to show for your $125 per month, $1500 per year.

If you think that this doesn't matter, you are frighteningly mistaken.
If you think this won't touch you, you are deluding yourself.

Even if Acacia doesn't come after you personally, what do you think program owners will do when they're faced with making a 1% profit?
They're going to cut the affiliates and pull things in-house, people.

Cutting the affiliates immediately gives them back 50% of their money.
You think they are really *that* desperate to keep your traffic? They're not - up to this point they've just been taking the easy route. It's much easier to pay you $35 per signup than to try to manage 1 employee.

But these licensing fees will change that. It will no longer make good business sense to outsource traffic to affiliates. The problems associated with actual employees will pale in comparison to the costs they will recoup.

Think about it. You send 2 sales a day at a cost (to them) of $35 each.
For that $70 they can pay 2 workers nearly $6 per hour to work 6 steady hours a day, pumping out sites and galleries the entire time. Day after day, driving a hell of a lot more traffic than you do. Bringing in more signups than you do.

Add in the Visa 1% chargeback limits which will start being punished around February 1st, and the writing on the walls gets even bolder and bigger. The only way to completely control the advertising methods being used to drive traffic to their sites is to hire in-house webmasters that make sites to an exact standard.

The writing is on the wall, people. Ignore it if you wish, but it won't make it go away.
Supporting Acacia is supporting the next two companies who will soon turn their attention to adult.
Supporting companies who license with Acacia does the same thing, with the added benefit that you are actively working to your own demise when your licensed sponsor decides it doesn't want to take just a 1% cut and gets rid of affiliates completely.

Chicken little? Nope. It's simple mathematics and business sense.
And isn't that what the companies who sign keep saying? "It made good business sense."
Getting rid of you in exchange for workers who put out sites and galleries to their exact standards, reduce chargebacks, and put more money in their pockets... well, that makes even *better* business sense.

Happy 2004.

Paul Markham

An ass is a donkey and though it fits I think the word I used fits better. Look it up in a dictionary.

So you still have not answered the question "How do we deal with this situation of lawyers thinking we are "Low Hanging Fruit." Or are you suggesting their patents are valid and we should take down our videos or pay the license?

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Serge_Oprano

yes, I do....and your affiliates should drop you on principle of things...

Serge_Oprano

rebel23

that's because you have a fighting instinct Serge. you went to court and LOST sexia.com, but eventually "won the war" these sell outs wont even try and fight or show up in court....

Paul Markham

There is no way they can do this unless the sponsors give them a complete list of affiliates who are only sending them traffic and will never link to anyone else.

They might send out letters to everyone they get a name on, hoping to hit someone sending traffic to a non licensee and they can scare him into paying the license. Or they may even serve an affiliate who is only working for a licensee, who will have to get a lawyer to answer the writ in court, will they refund the lawyers fee?

They are getting information from somewhere that's not on WhoIs. So where do you think it's coming from? Does not take an Einstien to work out, you have more chance of getting onto an Acacia list by doing business with a licensee than you have of doing business with a not Licensee.

Of course the Licensee that tells you "THEY WOULD NEVER DIVULGE PERSONAL INFORMATION" Is also the guy who made a "Business Decision" to sign up for the license rather than fight, so he could save a few bucks!!

Who do you trust. A Licensee or a non licensee?

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johnbosh

lol

Paul Markham

Good post Carrie.

Your figures are a bit out.

You forgot about the guys that join and cannot be assocaited to an affiliate, shaving and merchant accounts. But the principal is good.

And the main point is Acaica are not the only firm with a PATENT THAT CAN BE APPLIED TO THE ADULT INTERNET. Foget about streaming videos think of any patent that can be associated to us.

Also look at there latest tactic, they are going for a "Class" action. Does that include people not living in the US? Maybe living in a country not signed up to this BS patent yet.

There is one way out of this. Meet the costs of the defendants and dump those that signed up. Then faced withthe prospect of fighting this through the courts for 5 years, against a foe who is able to pay and no revenue coming in. Suddenly you are running at a massive loss, again does not take Einstein to work out there are better places to extort before this is thrown out of court.

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slackologist

damn, looks like i need some new sponsors.. what's a very good converting ezine type program? to replace cecash?

Serge_Oprano

yes, and thru this fight I aquired:
millions of hits a day from supporters,
MY WIFE, whom I'd never met if I was doing nothing playing dead...

I can't complain and when the dust settled,
WHO owns
http://sexia.com ?

hahhahahahahahahahahaha

rebel23

Serge, seems those were the good old days when you could count on someone at least trying to sue you, now NO ONE will sue you...

perhaps you should put some video on cotac.com :-)

Serge_Oprano

http://nocomments.com

;-)))))))

Paul Markham

I hear very good stories of LightSpeed, got a couple of clients who buy big from us and send traffic to his sites.

How about a list of guys that are fighting in courts and those supporting the fight. We are up to ours eyes in getting the site working and not able to do it, but if no one else will I will do it next week.

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Paul Markham

Where are Matrix on that list?

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lakers

and what if Acacia loses the case, will those companies ask for a refund?

JSA Matt

Matrix Content is not a sponsor... the full list is bigger than this.

FightThisPatent

pulled from an article i found... Andrew Huffman is the lead patent attorney for USA Video:

"Huffman also told us that USA Video has "not ruled out" seeking licensing fees from companies that have already reached settlements with Acacia"


he further commented:

"Unlike Acacia, he said, USA Video may pursue licensing agreements not only with VOD service providers, but with the companies whose equipment and software enables VOD: "This is not a one-shot expedition for us, and we haven't ruled out approaching other companies later on, whether they be hardware providers, software providers, or content providers," he explained. "While it is the content providers that are really driving the whole distribution model, and while I think it is important that they be brought to the table, in legal terms, there is no reason to say that someone higher up or lower down in the chain is not the best target to go after. Anyone who makes a contribution to the breach is liable."



Thank you Andrew for confirming that this is no chicken little story, that there are other patent holders looking to license their patents in the same space.



Fight the Breached Whale!

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FightThisPatent

Current defendants (i met all of them at the show)

Video Secrets
Homegrown Video
Lightspeed
ARS
Top Bucks
Gamelink
Ademia
AEBN
Audio Communications



Recent lawsuits filed with no word on their position to settle or fight:

Club Jenna

Orgasm.com

Webpower Inc. = Click Cash (iFriends)

Cybernet Ventures = Adult Check

Global AVS = ProAdult

ICS Inc. = adult.com / GFY

National A-1 Advert =
singles.com, sextoys.com , girls.com , guys.com , ladies.com, slaves.com , celebrities.com, cash.com




Fight the Fight!

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JSA Matt

That should be interesting. They have been totally silent and neutral about this...

FightThisPatent

Alot of people are being publicllay silent on this issue.. it's a sensitive subject as evident by backlash posts for those that settled... there's plenty of chatter privately.


I know this may be an unpopular point of view, but i don't believe in boycotting companies as the answer. They settled and made their "business decision".. instead, rally them to help behind the scenes. Their settlement with Acacia got them off their backs, but doesn't mean they can still be in the fight.


Fight the Picket Line!

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FightThisPatent

In case my thread titled 'Mainstream's Dirty Little Secret' didn't get your attention, read up about Real Networks being at Internext:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=218339


Fight the Taped Delay!

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frippeno

I agree with most of what you say, but I disagree with this. If sponsors could have made money getting rid of affiliates, they would have already done so. Truth is, they are paying pennies on the dollar for the traffic affiliates send, and they know it.

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Carrie

The ones who have already "reached settlement" with Acacia have proven themselves to be easy targets who are willing to hand over money.
Like I said, they've set a precedent.

It's coming, folks. The question is how long before SightSound and USA Video turn their sights to us. *sigh*

Carrie

I see your point, but it's based on how things have been up to now.
Managing employees (even telecommuting ones) is a pain in the ass. There's lots of paperwork to do and with some employees you have to look over their shoulder constantly.
The sheer annoyance of it is often enough to make someone not want to do it, and skip over it for a solution that is more expensive, but less of a hassle.
Affiliates are becoming increasingly expensive. Not only is there the high payouts or revshare percentages, but now there's free hosting, hosted galleries and free sites, hosted movie galleries, more and more free content that must be given out... you guys have no idea how much bandwidth just 20 webmasters can burn per day. Now try to imagine 200 or more on your free hosting, with another hundred pulling all of your hosted galleries. The cost is staggering. Add to it the "rewards" programs, special payout bonus days, advertising on webmaster resources to recruit more webmasters and create branding, and sponsoring parties and events for webmasters - affiliates have gotten damned expensive. Much, much more so than they were just 2 years ago.

It used to be justifiable to have affiliates rather than employees. However, things are changing. The much higher cost of recruiting/keeping affiliates and all of their demands, Acacia's fees, Visa's crackdown, and eventually the other two video patent holders are going to make it much, MUCH harder to turn a profit.
When that happens, they'll be looking for ways to recoup as much money as they can and reduce their chargeback risk. Doing more things in-house is the answer to that.

Keep in mind that most bigger sponsors *already* have in-house webmasters building sites and competing directly with you. It wouldn't be that much of a change to simply turn off the expensive affiliate programs and move *all* of the traffic generation in-house.

JSA Matt

On that note, does anyone have the FULL list of all companies that signed?

Wizzo

Sellouts? Larry Flint is on that list and without him likely we wouldn't even be having this "debate" because porn would be illegal in the US and this biz would be nothing! If there's anyone that can't be considered a sellout in this biz, it's Larry Flint!

Quite a few of the people on that list I know first hand, saw it as a way to not only protect themselves, but to protect their affiliates from having to waste time with this bullshit!

Some of you might want to take a look at that list and protect yourself by using those programs, because one thing I did notice is there aren't any of the programs on there that have shaving accusations or proof against them or any of the other type of shady BS that seem to always follow some programs around. It just might because those are the companies that are more interested in protecting their affiliates and themselves from lawsuits and getting on with the biz of making money!

Also, like it's been said, settling doesn't the fight is over!

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JSA Matt

These companies are thowing fuel on a fire. That fire is your job, your home, your life. We are supposed to sit back and watch it burn while these companies go on like nothing happend?

FightThisPatent

true, but if the companies who did settle are not helping out, then the fight is over for them......then you can boycott them



Fight the Sellouts!

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Serge_Oprano

bullshit....

what Larry Flynt of yesteryear and Larry Flynt of today have in common????

Back in a day Guccione was a pioneer,
today he is a broke..


apples and ornages....

MetaMan

people with acrobat, or other knowledge:

are these the ONLY sponsorship, and i stress sponsorhip programs that have signed with them?

i may have now know who sold my info.

JSA Matt

Let's hear your thoughts..

I have emailed them for a full list but doubt they will send it.

Paul Markham

This was posted by "Fight The Patent" on another board. It lists those who are fighting, need your support and will not give out your information.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current defendants (i met all of them at the show)

Video Secrets
Homegrown Video
Lightspeed
ARS
Top Bucks
Gamelink
Ademia
AEBN
Audio Communications



Recent lawsuits filed with no word on their position to settle or fight:

Club Jenna

Orgasm.com

Webpower Inc. = Click Cash (iFriends)

Cybernet Ventures = Adult Check

Global AVS = ProAdult

ICS Inc. = adult.com / GFY

National A-1 Advert =
singles.com, sextoys.com , girls.com , guys.com , ladies.com, slaves.com , celebrities.com, cash.com



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Draws a line in the sand.

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PokerSchool

man, this is a hot topic. is there anyone on that list still hopes Acacia will fall like the bitches they are?

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