I'm all for tax reform, but wild statements like this just drive me bonkers. Where in the constitution does it say 'you are under no obligation to your country as an American citizen' ?

Anyone who denies that American citizens have far better opportunities than the majority of the world for success, wealth, or simply safe living, is full of it. We have to pay for the security and fortune we have. It's nice to live in a imaginary bubble, but look around the rest of the world. Iraqis never paid income tax, would you like to live as they did?

- Titus

The Laffer curve is so ridiculously simplistic that it is rather hard to take it seriously, let alone believe in it. Leaving out the influence of culture and especially the effects of diversity in taxes for different income classes is an unforgivable mistake.

While the Russian tax system indeed seems to give a strong argument for a flat tax rate, one should not forget that the situations are entirely different from eachother.
Russia is basically a third world country, with an inefficient and disorganized government - something that makes tax evasion a whole lot easier.
By taking away incentive for tax evasion and at the same time using an easy to enforce, simple system, it becomes easier for a disorganized government to actually collect taxes.

However, for a country with a strong government, the effects don't have to be the same at all... since tax evasion may well be a lot lower in the US than it was in Russia, a flat tax rate like the one used in Russia could very well lower tax revenue.

LOL, I like that:)

Hopefully Congress and the Senate will try to keep Bush's 2nd term less extravagant...

Flat tax will never happen here the rich will never allow it , its a tax increase for them . Also anyone here who is a millionaire and getting slammed with taxes. Get a real accountant!

The whole trick is instead of just talking here is to get out of the house and vote w out of office.

:) In my neck of the woods I could probably do more for another candidate online:)

I really wish people on the internet would learn to read
a thread in chronological order, without skipping stuff.
This wasn't the point at all. For the second time, the 'math' post
was just a bored response to some guy saying a 1+mil/year isn't much.
I suggest he go convince a fireman risking his life for $30K/year.

I am no tax attorney, but I am under the impression that if you are actually using the money to invest in business, you probably won't have to pay much in the way of tax on it. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, and there will be loopholes and exceptions, but in general that's the idea.(?)

Some jobs shouldn't belong to the lowest bidders.

There are important jobs that do not directly turn a profit,
so it's up to the rest of society to recognize the need for good
people in these positions regardless of the income they generate.

But since people typically only care about themselves,
it doesn't happen, and you end up with deficient rejects
taking care of your kids, and sadists enforcing the law.

ditto.

the smartest one of the bunch.

the gov't IS largly responsible for your ABILITY to make wealth, and it provides that ability to poor people as well. it's why we don't have revolt - the poor know that the ABILITY to create wealth exists.



that's a fact that many whinning sniveling rich boys seem to forget when it comes time to pay their bills.

i can't comment on your personal situation, but I know of others in your income bracket that pay less than $10K a year in tax in the USA

For once, I completely agree with you :thumbsup

ahhh, yeah thats it.

you ramble on with lies and when I laugh at them I have no argument.
sure kid.

Here's the point.
Just because I got where I'm at thru brains and hard work doesn't mean I'd vote to over tax you because you were lucky.

No you don't.

Lies? Please, do point them out.

And as for taxes... I didn't say anything in that post about taxes. All I said was that the idea of a person's income being a fair and objective measure of amount of work and talent is seriously flawed.

Nice fantasy.

The politicians will never allow a flat tax because the poor would throw them all out of office once they realized how much thier spending costs them.

I love people spouting about things they're clueless about.

If the top 5% pay 50% of the taxes, imagine how heavy the tax burden will be on the poor when the top 5% pay 5% of the taxes.

We'll never see it but the rich would line up behind it in a second.

I don't think you grasp the concept of a flat tax rate. It's generally considered to be a flat percentage, not a flat amount.
That means the top 5% wouldn't pay 5% of the taxes, but whichever percentage of the total income they are making.

12clicks is obviously incapable of grasping most simple concepts.

When his brain hurts too much he uses the smilie emoticon.

Forrest Gump makes more sense.

hmmm, yeah I don't get it. If my tax rate goes from 39% to 15% I'm going to vote against it.
how old are you son?:1orglaugh

Have you been drinking?
You seem to have some serious trouble following the subject and staying coherent, and usually you do a much better job in defending your viewpoints.

look, he finally realizes he's in over his head.

Why does noticing that you are rambling incoherently and seem to have a particular love for the straw man argument mean I'm realizing I'm in over my head?

So far you have failed to provide even one real argument. The only one you posted in this thread that was even remotely on topic showed you have no knowledge whatsoever of what a flat tax rate is and what the effects are.

Madonna endorsed him too

sure kid.

well that would cinch a win for Bush

ummm, what school teachers are you talking about? University professors? There are very few elementary school teachers with 3 times the education of me, and I don't even have a degree.

primarily because of corporations that pay less taxes via deductions and loopholes than they would pay if there was a flat 10% tax.

the idea that a corporation should pay taxes at all is what keeps the economy from REALLY expanding.
politicians come to the stupid and say"those bad corporations need to be taxed"

a corporation is a vehicle for doing business, not a person lining their pockets.

When a person profits from a corporation, there is a tax event. A corporation bringing in money is just an action of business, not a profit event. its not profit until a person puts it in their pocket. The government already taxes that but because of a stupid electorate, we tax money brought into the corp wether its profit or not.
that's wrong and it stifles the economy.

I was speaking regarding individual income tax not business tax and the numbers were based on 2001 total personal income tax paid and total AGI.

No, it is helping america. Gotta have a reason to take over those iraq oil fields... gotta fuel up those SUV's.

Think about it... Give a ridiculous tax break on some of the most gas sucking vehicles on the face of the planet and make the american public need the fuel that much more.

Funny, there are people running their engines on moonshine... and other fuels so why do we still ned oil? Oh yea... so the oil barrons can keep their jobs, start wars and let's see... what else?

You really need to go to school and learn what a corporation is. It is a LEGAL ENTITY, which means it has its own rights and liabilities seperate from its owners. In legal terms it is its own person, so of course a corp should be taxed.

From an economic standpoint having a corporate tax encourages businesses to put profits back into the system, whether it be hiring more people, purchasing/leasing equipment, investing, etc. Which in turn creates economic growth.

really asshat? when a corporation breaks the law, who goes to jail?
No one said it wasn't a legal entity. You really need to go back to school and lear reading comprehension.

No it doesn't, it encourages short sited economic spending. A corp. sitting on a pile of savings can weather many more downturns than a company who spends it every year so it doesn't lose whatever the % of the year is.
Why would a corp. save 1mil a year when say 40% of it is lost at the end of the year to taxes?
That 40% stifles growth. period.
but hey, it makes the rabble feel good about taking money from those evil corporations.:thumbsup