Everyone applauding the CAN-SPAM act is an idiot..... - GoFuckYourself.com

stocktrader23 · 12-11-2003, 09:04 PM

Well almost everyone. If you don't use or own affiliate programs and don't care about the business you chose to be in you're exempt from this rant. ;)

First of all, the CAN-SPAM act makes it illegal for any company to accept traffic from spam. What's even worse is the language it uses is to the effect of if the sponsor knew or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN the affiliate was spamming. Who is going to define "should" in this situation? Do you really want your sponsors potentially targetted by the government simply because an affiliate spammed their product or service?

While some of you are twisting in your seats ready to post a message saying how you don't want to use a sponsor who allows spam anyway and they deserve trouble you are missing the point. If an affiliate spams and they don't catch it the government may step in and arrest the program owners and possibly all involved. Do you really want to see program owners defending whether they "should" have known an affiliate was spamming?

It's common knowledge that the government likes to go after adult sites with every possible angle they can in case the sites content isn't found obscene by a jury. I doubt any of us really want to see Asshahahahaha running around with this extra angle to attack adult companies with.

Also, if any program owners are arrested for some rogue affiliate sending spam consider what other program owners may decide to do then. It's very possible some companies would pull the plug on their affiliates and promote their own sites. Nobody wants the risk of somebody not following the rules and landing them both in jail.

And aside from the obvious reasons anybody concerned with the health of this business should be against this bill there is still the fact that this bill will pretty much make spamming LEGAL. As long as a spammer follows the guidelines of the bill they are free to spam. Not to mention it will supercede any state laws that may be tougher on spammers. I'm sure there are a few people that would weigh the penalties involved with this bill against the money they could be making by spamming and decide the reward is worth the risk.

Meanwhile, everyone that is so happy to see this bill go through will still be getting spammed from people that a) don't care or b) live outside of the U.S. Let's hope no innocent businesses have this bill used against them but it is damn sure possible.

<a href="http://www.wilsonweb.com/wmt9/canspam_comply.htm">More Info</a>

</end rant>

Discuss

B Sandwich · 12-11-2003, 09:09 PM

good post...

pamphage · 12-11-2003, 09:09 PM

sounds plausible

vicki · 12-11-2003, 09:11 PM

I agree, this will affect the biz more than many realize

psyko514 · 12-11-2003, 09:13 PM

If a spammer is big enough to catch the eye of the government, then surely his affiliate program would know or would be curious as to where all the traffic was coming from?

cluck · 12-11-2003, 09:13 PM

It's the same clueless retards in government doing this that let acacia try to uphold a ridiculous patent.

It's time for them to get up on the times or get the fuck out of our business.

cluck · 12-11-2003, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514
If a spammer is big enough to catch the eye of the government, then surely his affiliate program would know or would be curious as to where all the traffic was coming from?

When most program owners see profits from spam they let it go. I guess unfortunately that's gonna have to change.

stocktrader23 · 12-11-2003, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514
If a spammer is big enough to catch the eye of the government, then surely his affiliate program would know or would be curious as to where all the traffic was coming from?

Government officials have personal email addresses. How long would it take ANY spammer to be known when the wrong person got just 1 email they shouldn't have?

pornguy · 12-11-2003, 09:14 PM

That Knew or should have known is a clause that they use in all kinds of laws. It is a way for the to abuse the laws to their advantage..

Take for instance this idea...
A guy starts a program where people are selling for him.. The first 50 people are using banners and doing everything leagl. The owver is now making enough money to go live elsewhere and have someone run everything for him. He never touches the system or anything after the first 50 people make hi rich... Person number 51 signs up and starts to spam. He gets caught. They arrest the owner, because he nkew or should have known...

Was the guy an idiot for leaving the business to run it's self.. YES.
Does it happen? YES
Should he go to jail? NO

If you knew, then you were involved enough that you could have stopped it.

But should have known??? That is the part that is bullshit...

That means that you have to watch every person that signs up for your program, scan the ports of their system to see what they are doing, and basically hold their dick while they piss...

Can not and will not happen...

Evil1 · 12-11-2003, 09:15 PM

They need to get the "mini rc car" spammer, 20x a day, every fucking day, Im reminded that I need it and it is the ultimate gift.

CAHEK · 12-11-2003, 09:15 PM

To summarize CAN SPAM: We must NOT use Proxies, Use Valid Froms, Valid Removal Links, Attach a ADDRESS to all emails (So its easier to track/hunt us down and harrass the hell out of us, and this law doesn't allow individuals to sue us in civil court, BUT STILL allows ISPs to sue the hell out of us. Allows Anti's to make money by turning spammers in......Plus They Can Still Block our Mails....This piece of law is definately one way.......

stocktrader23 · 12-11-2003, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cluck

When most program owners see profits from spam they let it go. I guess unfortunately that's gonna have to change.

Right, and spammers add alot of money to the bottom line of many programs, even if they (the programs) don't admit it.

CAHEK · 12-11-2003, 09:18 PM

SECONDLY : Did you know that 45% of every Credit Card Transaction on the internet is Fraudulent

Which means every second Buyer is a Criminal. And only Amazon.com alone loosing

2 bil $$$/year on that. How many did you see they catch? Few probably..

There is almost 0% possibilities to comply with that Can-Spam

psyko514 · 12-11-2003, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CAHEK
To summarize CAN SPAM: We must NOT use Proxies, Use Valid Froms, Valid Removal Links, Attach a ADDRESS to all emails (So its easier to track/hunt us down and harrass the hell out of us, and this law doesn't allow individuals to sue us in civil court, BUT STILL allows ISPs to sue the hell out of us. Allows Anti's to make money by turning spammers in......Plus They Can Still Block our Mails....This piece of law is definately one way.......

boohoo. my heart bleeds for you.

psyko514 · 12-11-2003, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CAHEK
SECONDLY : Did you know that 45% of every Credit Card Transaction on the internet is Fraudulent

Where the hell did you get this bullshit factoid? A crackerjack box?

stocktrader23 · 12-11-2003, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514

boohoo. my heart bleeds for you.

As will mine when your precious sponsor you SPAM on this board daily either pays less or closes the door to affiliates.

stocktrader23 · 12-11-2003, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil1
They need to get the "mini rc car" spammer, 20x a day, every fucking day, Im reminded that I need it and it is the ultimate gift.

Tell them you'll buy one if they quit spamming you.

psyko514 · 12-11-2003, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23

As will mine when your precious sponsor you SPAM on this board daily either pays less or closes the door to affiliates.

I wouldn't mind. But I don't see this happening.

How plausible do you think your theory is?

I agree with most of what you're saying (sponsors deriving income from spam, all it takes is an email to a government official, etc), but I still feel that if someone is spamming enough to draw the government's attention, they will have also drawn the sponsor's attention as well.

Say you send out a few thousand emails just for fun, and one lands in some ultra-conservative prick's inbox who so happens to know his senator's email address. This guy fires off an email to his senator, who receives at least a few hundred emails a day, not to mention a few hundred spam emails. One of the senator's lackeys reads the email in the next few days. He passes the word on to who ever enforces Can Spam. They contact the ultra-conservative guy. They meet with him to see the email. Then they trace it back to you. Then they find you. How long do you think this took? A few weeks? Months? How many mailers have you sent out since then? If your sponsor hasn't canned you by now, there's something wrong, and they should be held partly responsible.

psyko514 · 12-11-2003, 09:33 PM

If the threat to affiliate programs is real, then the programs just have to tighten their belts a little.

Be more stringent when accepting new webmasters. Make sure they have a running site to send traffic from. Approve them into your program manually. Spot check their sites on a regular basis. Ask to see their traffic logs. Things like this can help drastically.

Va2k · 12-11-2003, 09:36 PM

I agree this isnt a good thing either way you look at it.

Theo · 12-11-2003, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CAHEK
SECONDLY : Did you know that 45% of every Credit Card Transaction on the internet is Fraudulent

Which means every second Buyer is a Criminal. And only Amazon.com alone loosing

stocktrader23 · 12-11-2003, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514
If the threat to affiliate programs is real, then the programs just have to tighten their belts a little.

Be more stringent when accepting new webmasters. Make sure they have a running site to send traffic from. Approve them into your program manually. Spot check their sites on a regular basis. Ask to see their traffic logs. Things like this can help drastically.

Yep and everyone of these effects this business negatively. More resources, less income, etc. I don't see thing about this that is good for the adult industry.

psyko514 · 12-11-2003, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23

Yep and everyone of these effects this business negatively. More resources, less income, etc. I don't see thing about this that is good for the adult industry.

I agree with the more resources part. And while the less income part is true, it depends on how you feel about spam.

If I ran a program and I found out my top affiliate who made me $50K a month was doing it through spam, I'd term him, law or no law.

Just for the record, I'm the type of person who doesn't care much until/unless I'm directly impacted. If and/or when my sponsors lower my payouts, then I'll have an official opinion. Right now, I'm just talking for the sake of argument/discussion.

As for the Can Spam act, I think it's a good idea in theory, but in practice, it'll probably suck. Like Communism.

stocktrader23 · 12-12-2003, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

Agreed, maybe all Russian transactions.

quiet · 12-12-2003, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514
If I ran a program and I found out my top affiliate who made me $50K a month was doing it through spam, I'd term him, law or no law

lol

$5 submissions · 12-12-2003, 04:50 AM

One thread of reasoning that I see that merits further discussion from the original post is that LEGISLATION IS JUST THE FIRST STEP IN REGULATION. Lawyers are extremely skilled in building cottage industries out of specific laws passed by Congress.

Examples:

Disabilities discrimination practices based on the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act)

Title VII discrimination practices based on the 1964 Civil Rights Act

ERISA practices based on the federal retirement statute of the 1970s.

The problem with using litigation to regulate is there is no braking mechanism as lawyers seek to expand the scope and applicability of this law. Just look at the original RICO statute of the 1960s...this has been expanded by plaintiffs' attorneys to apply to hospitals or nonprofit groups which are WAYYYY OUTSIDE of the original target of RICO--gangsters.

CAHEK · 12-12-2003, 01:12 PM

tshirt from goodwill

Authorities said Jeremy Jaynes was arrested in Raleigh, North Carolina

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/interne...ges/index.html

jimmyf · 12-12-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514
If a spammer is big enough to catch the eye of the government, then surely his affiliate program would know or would be curious as to where all the traffic was coming from?

if they don't must have there head up ass

jimmyf · 12-12-2003, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23

Government officials have personal email addresses. How long would it take ANY spammer to be known when the wrong person got just 1 email they shouldn't have?

Must not be a good email list

kmanrox · 12-12-2003, 01:21 PM

ill clue you people in on pulling thru anything...

offshore company, nominee directors, offshore banking, and behind the scenes batch processing and you're golden.... oh and hosting offshore... always keep multiple hosts on different networks...

Cindyff · 12-12-2003, 01:23 PM

You make some good points, but in the last year or so i have seen a massive reduction in adult spams and a vast increase in Penis Pills and medication products. I for one wouldn't mind seeing a few of those webmaster bite the dust.

Cindyxx

Pornwolf · 12-12-2003, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet

lol

Ditto.

12-11-2003, 09:04 PM	#1
stocktrader23 Let's do some business. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The dirty south. Posts: 18,781	Everyone applauding the CAN-SPAM act is an idiot..... Well almost everyone. If you don't use or own affiliate programs and don't care about the business you chose to be in you're exempt from this rant. ;) First of all, the CAN-SPAM act makes it illegal for any company to accept traffic from spam. What's even worse is the language it uses is to the effect of if the sponsor knew or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN the affiliate was spamming. Who is going to define "should" in this situation? Do you really want your sponsors potentially targetted by the government simply because an affiliate spammed their product or service? While some of you are twisting in your seats ready to post a message saying how you don't want to use a sponsor who allows spam anyway and they deserve trouble you are missing the point. If an affiliate spams and they don't catch it the government may step in and arrest the program owners and possibly all involved. Do you really want to see program owners defending whether they "should" have known an affiliate was spamming? It's common knowledge that the government likes to go after adult sites with every possible angle they can in case the sites content isn't found obscene by a jury. I doubt any of us really want to see Asshahahahaha running around with this extra angle to attack adult companies with. Also, if any program owners are arrested for some rogue affiliate sending spam consider what other program owners may decide to do then. It's very possible some companies would pull the plug on their affiliates and promote their own sites. Nobody wants the risk of somebody not following the rules and landing them both in jail. And aside from the obvious reasons anybody concerned with the health of this business should be against this bill there is still the fact that this bill will pretty much make spamming LEGAL. As long as a spammer follows the guidelines of the bill they are free to spam. Not to mention it will supercede any state laws that may be tougher on spammers. I'm sure there are a few people that would weigh the penalties involved with this bill against the money they could be making by spamming and decide the reward is worth the risk. Meanwhile, everyone that is so happy to see this bill go through will still be getting spammed from people that a) don't care or b) live outside of the U.S. Let's hope no innocent businesses have this bill used against them but it is damn sure possible. <a href="http://www.wilsonweb.com/wmt9/canspam_comply.htm">More Info</a> </end rant> Discuss __________________ Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

12-11-2003, 09:09 PM	#2
B Sandwich Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nola Posts: 1,600	good post... __________________ PubicBucks - Trade your pubes for bucks!

12-11-2003, 09:09 PM	#3
pamphage Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 3,569	sounds plausible __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60. Let me repeat... A 120 x 60 button and no more that 3 lines of DEFAULT SIZE AND COLOR text.

12-11-2003, 09:11 PM	#4
vicki Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Deep in the heart o' Texas Posts: 1,478	I agree, this will affect the biz more than many realize __________________ If at first you do succeed - try to hide your astonishment. HR merchant accounts from 3.45% solid biz since 98 victoriakozub AT gmail.com skype: victoria.kozub \| ICQ: 74296746

12-11-2003, 09:13 PM	#5
psyko514 See sig. Join Epic Cash. Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec. ICQ: 214702014 Posts: 22,366	If a spammer is big enough to catch the eye of the government, then surely his affiliate program would know or would be curious as to where all the traffic was coming from? __________________ Bad Girl Bucks - 50% Revshare through CCBill. Promote BrandyDDD, Pixie's Pillows, Action Allie and more! Phoenix Forum Pics \| Webmaster Access Montreal pics email: psyko514(a)gmail.com \| icq: 214-702-014

12-11-2003, 09:13 PM	#6
cluck Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,248	It's the same clueless retards in government doing this that let acacia try to uphold a ridiculous patent. It's time for them to get up on the times or get the fuck out of our business. __________________ icq 279990726 www.mcdonalds.com <- great money making opportunity

12-11-2003, 09:14 PM	#9
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	That Knew or should have known is a clause that they use in all kinds of laws. It is a way for the to abuse the laws to their advantage.. Take for instance this idea... A guy starts a program where people are selling for him.. The first 50 people are using banners and doing everything leagl. The owver is now making enough money to go live elsewhere and have someone run everything for him. He never touches the system or anything after the first 50 people make hi rich... Person number 51 signs up and starts to spam. He gets caught. They arrest the owner, because he nkew or should have known... Was the guy an idiot for leaving the business to run it's self.. YES. Does it happen? YES Should he go to jail? NO If you knew, then you were involved enough that you could have stopped it. But should have known??? That is the part that is bullshit... That means that you have to watch every person that signs up for your program, scan the ports of their system to see what they are doing, and basically hold their dick while they piss... Can not and will not happen... __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

12-11-2003, 09:15 PM	#10
Evil1 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,893	They need to get the "mini rc car" spammer, 20x a day, every fucking day, Im reminded that I need it and it is the ultimate gift. __________________

12-11-2003, 09:15 PM	#11
CAHEK C.C.C.P. Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Novorossiya Posts: 7,043	To summarize CAN SPAM: We must NOT use Proxies, Use Valid Froms, Valid Removal Links, Attach a ADDRESS to all emails (So its easier to track/hunt us down and harrass the hell out of us, and this law doesn't allow individuals to sue us in civil court, BUT STILL allows ISPs to sue the hell out of us. Allows Anti's to make money by turning spammers in......Plus They Can Still Block our Mails....This piece of law is definately one way....... __________________ Pharma from True-Meds. High converting shop in Europe and USA, fast payouts via BTC !!!

12-11-2003, 09:18 PM	#13
CAHEK C.C.C.P. Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Novorossiya Posts: 7,043	SECONDLY : Did you know that 45% of every Credit Card Transaction on the internet is Fraudulent Which means every second Buyer is a Criminal. And only Amazon.com alone loosing 2 bil $$$/year on that. How many did you see they catch? Few probably.. There is almost 0% possibilities to comply with that Can-Spam __________________ Pharma from True-Meds. High converting shop in Europe and USA, fast payouts via BTC !!!

12-11-2003, 09:33 PM	#19
psyko514 See sig. Join Epic Cash. Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec. ICQ: 214702014 Posts: 22,366	If the threat to affiliate programs is real, then the programs just have to tighten their belts a little. Be more stringent when accepting new webmasters. Make sure they have a running site to send traffic from. Approve them into your program manually. Spot check their sites on a regular basis. Ask to see their traffic logs. Things like this can help drastically. __________________ Bad Girl Bucks - 50% Revshare through CCBill. Promote BrandyDDD, Pixie's Pillows, Action Allie and more! Phoenix Forum Pics \| Webmaster Access Montreal pics email: psyko514(a)gmail.com \| icq: 214-702-014

12-11-2003, 09:36 PM	#20
Va2k I’m still alive barley. Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Va Posts: 10,060	I agree this isnt a good thing either way you look at it. __________________

12-12-2003, 04:50 AM	#26
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	One thread of reasoning that I see that merits further discussion from the original post is that LEGISLATION IS JUST THE FIRST STEP IN REGULATION. Lawyers are extremely skilled in building cottage industries out of specific laws passed by Congress. Examples: Disabilities discrimination practices based on the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) Title VII discrimination practices based on the 1964 Civil Rights Act ERISA practices based on the federal retirement statute of the 1970s. The problem with using litigation to regulate is there is no braking mechanism as lawyers seek to expand the scope and applicability of this law. Just look at the original RICO statute of the 1960s...this has been expanded by plaintiffs' attorneys to apply to hospitals or nonprofit groups which are WAYYYY OUTSIDE of the original target of RICO--gangsters. __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

12-12-2003, 01:12 PM	#27
CAHEK C.C.C.P. Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Novorossiya Posts: 7,043	tshirt from goodwill Authorities said Jeremy Jaynes was arrested in Raleigh, North Carolina http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/interne...ges/index.html __________________ Pharma from True-Meds. High converting shop in Europe and USA, fast payouts via BTC !!!

12-12-2003, 01:21 PM	#30
kmanrox aka K-Man Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Gutter Posts: 29,292	ill clue you people in on pulling thru anything... offshore company, nominee directors, offshore banking, and behind the scenes batch processing and you're golden.... oh and hosting offshore... always keep multiple hosts on different networks... __________________ Crypto HODLr Crypto mining Angel investor

12-12-2003, 01:23 PM	#31
Cindyff Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,187	You make some good points, but in the last year or so i have seen a massive reduction in adult spams and a vast increase in Penis Pills and medication products. I for one wouldn't mind seeing a few of those webmaster bite the dust. Cindyxx