Shaving is theft!

[monro]

Shaving is theft!

You make agreements with your sponsors right? It's no excuse whatsoever for some of them to steal a part of your agreed income. It is no excuse for them to say "we pay out to much etc etc" Check those here at this very board defending shaving (theft). Are some of the running a sponsor program?
It's not fair to other, honest sponsors either. Pomising high payouts to get affiliates, then steal a part back!

Jay Kopita from YNOTMASTERS:
"It?s important to follow your stats, and if you aren?t happy with your affiliate program there are always going to be several alternatives to switch to, and until Webmasters band together to boycott and take a stand against some of the industry?s biggest shavers, it will always exist."

Use proxy/clear cookies and do test payments now and then!

In every business you have to trust each other, if not it is very bad indeed! As the situation is now, you can not be sure if your poor ratio is shaving or your traffic is bad. Wrong steps can be taken by you if the info is wrong. Maybe you change good traffic instead of the sponsor!

[GeXus]

mmkay

[Johny Traffic]

Shaving is theft yes, doesnt everyone agree with that?

[irishfury]

Damnit that's why my electric razor was siezed.......

[chemicaleyes]

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
Shaving is theft yes, doesnt everyone agree with that?

yeah everyone agrees and if they don't, they ain't got a brain! but there ain't shit you can do except stop using the sponsor..

[monro]

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
Shaving is theft yes, doesnt everyone agree with that?

NO.
Look at some posts at this board. It's disgusting! Some posts say that "everyone do it" "if you make good money thay can shave" etc. Maybe they do think that robbery is ok everywhere, I have not thougt about that.

[Smokey The Bear]

Originally posted by monro
Shaving is theft!


Use proxy/clear cookies and do test payments now and then!

And violate your tos and not get paid.

The best way to do it is to do it legally . Well maybe not legally but you gotta be clever.

Get a "friend" to make a new account with all your current sponsors , Then you signup for membeship for his sponsors and see if "your friend" gets paid or not. Dont expect to get paid for those as what your doing is technically cheating , but its a good way to see who shaves and who doesnt.

[GeXus]

Most programs shave.. so you need to either A. make your own sites, B. accept it (which many do, and many still make LOTS of money) or C. whine about it and end up no where

[Smokey The Bear]

Originally posted by GeXus
Most programs shave.. so you need to either A. make your own sites, B. accept it (which many do, and many still make LOTS of money) or C. whine about it and end up no where

The sad fact is most sponsors shave, to stay competitive and to offer the biggest payouts, Like it or not.

I promote the most honest programs out there in my sig for FREE no ref code needed , because i like people to get an honest sponsor, but that doesnt mean they dont shave.

Some people dont have the balls to state a shaving sponsor because they are afraid of "no more checks" .

Its like dopeheads that say , " yah i know he sold me an underweight bag but , the guy has good pot "

You either get what you pay for or you move on.

FOR THE RECORD -- GAMMACASH SHAVES
FOR THE RECORD -- CECASH SHAVES
FOR THE RECORD -- NASTYDOLLARS SHAVES
FOR THE RECORD -- PORNKINGS SHAVES
FOR THE RECORD -- WEGCASH SHAVES

so sue me , you all know they shave but they pay the best of any sponsors out there, so you keep your mouth shut and you keep sending hits, and so do i. Hopefully in the future sponsors will stop shaving , and while were at it hopefully politicians will stop lying.

[monro]

Originally posted by GeXus
Most programs shave.. so you need to either A. make your own sites, B. accept it (which many do, and many still make LOTS of money) or C. whine about it and end up no where

See what I mean?
The first defender of shaving (theft) More to come. We can never stop it if it is a lot of webmasters like you around.

I wonder, if you pay for a full tank of gas and got 75% is that ok if the gas is of good quality?

Next time you sponsor needs some extra money, and your stat show 0:10.000 still happy?. Or do you got a shaving % in your agreement?

[J-D]

Like your style Smokey a real no bullshit approach to things well done bud

[J-D]

Ok guys, I'm curious.... What would you rather, a sponsor who shaves and pays $35 per trial signup, or a shave free sponsor who pays $15-$20 per signup?

It all boils down to the amount you earn per CTR

Just my thoughts ???

[Smokey The Bear]

Originally posted by J-D
Like your style Smokey a real no bullshit approach to things well done bud

I just tell it like it is


I would much rather promote a good sponsor for free than a bad one for a few bucks.

There are many more things to also consider than shaving.

Like poor support lack of content terrible conversions.

I would much rather have a sponsor that shaves %25 than a sponsor that doesnt convert and doesnt answer my emails has shitty sites and lots of downtime.

Like in life what it all boils down to is $$$ at the end of the day.

[GeXus]

Originally posted by monro


See what I mean?
The first defender of shaving (theft) More to come. We can never stop it if it is a lot of webmasters like you around.

I wonder, if you pay for a full tank of gas and got 75% is that ok if the gas is of good quality?

Next time you sponsor needs some extra money, and your stat show 0:10.000 still happy?. Or do you got a shaving % in your agreement?

Look, I dont agree with it, Nor do i defend it.. BUT its a lose-lose situation.

You think you can just ban together with other webmasters, and presto shaveing is gone? No.. There is no way around it, shaving exists, its just part of the game.. Either you find a way around it, or you just accept it... You arent going to stop it.

[Milena Dickman]

Hi there!

If you rather promote a sponsor that shaves you because of the high payout on trials and stuff that's strickly up to you, and I really hope you make lots of money.

But for those who aren't that happy with shavers, I suggest you to stick with sponsors that use a 3rd party processor - so you can be sure you are not being shaved.

kisses,

Milena

PS: BTW, 18Honeys does all it's processing through CCbill

[mrthumbs]

reading this thread leads me to only one conclusion:

im calling my programmer to have that shave option installed
on the fly!

Why didnt you morons tell me in advance it was ok to keep an extra 25% from your stats.. GREAT!

But seriously: beside the fact you get fucked over and cash
stolen from you: what use are statistics if they are not accurate?
So beside the plain stealing you also have numbers and conversion ratio's you cant count on. so you know nothing.

But thats ok right? As long as a sponsor pays you.

Fucking idiots. I really should stop being so honest and fuck over
my affiliates. Ill probably get more credit for things that way!!

[{fusion}]

if they wair shades, have loads of pussy, drive flashy cars then they shave

[Smokey The Bear]

Originally posted by mrthumbs
reading this thread leads me to only one conclusion:

im calling my programmer to have that shave option installed
on the fly!

Why didnt you morons tell me in advance it was ok to keep an extra 25% from your stats.. GREAT!

But seriously: beside the fact you get fucked over and cash
stolen from you: what use are statistics if they are not accurate?
So beside the plain stealing you also have numbers and conversion ratio's you cant count on. so you know nothing.

But thats ok right? As long as a sponsor pays you.

Fucking idiots. I really should stop being so honest and fuck over
my affiliates. Ill probably get more credit for things that way!!

Your the idiot. Every sponsor shaves in one way or another , We are just stating facts. All the major sponsors shave and the bottom line is $$$$ not if you shave or what you shave , If your the only honest sponsor out there and you installed a shaver the cash starts dropping and your "affiliates" move on thats the point. The bottom line always lies in what you take home not how much you got ripped off.

If someone said " hey i have a job for you it pays 2 million dollars and all you have to do is make me a simple logo , BUT im going to have to take a million of that for myself because i need a vacation" and another guy walked up and said " hey i have a job for you it pays $500,000 and all you have to do is make a simple logo for me , im an honest guy and i never would take any of your money " who do you pick ? Make a million , but know the guy is stealing a million from your , or take the $500,000 and make half as much knowing your with a guy who doesnt rip you off ?

[JamesK]

Originally posted by *Smokey The Bear*


Your the idiot. Every sponsor shaves in one way or another , We are just stating facts. All the major sponsors shave and the bottom line is $$$$ not if you shave or what you shave , If your the only honest sponsor out there and you installed a shaver the cash starts dropping and your "affiliates" move on thats the point. The bottom line always lies in what you take home not how much you got ripped off.

If someone said " hey i have a job for you it pays 2 million dollars and all you have to do is make me a simple logo , BUT im going to have to take a million of that for myself because i need a vacation" and another guy walked up and said " hey i have a job for you it pays $500,000 and all you have to do is make a simple logo for me , im an honest guy and i never would take any of your money " who do you pick ? Make a million , but know the guy is stealing a million from your , or take the $500,000 and make half as much knowing your with a guy who doesnt rip you off ?

I'd pick the guy that rips me off.

[fedfest]

Originally posted by *Smokey The Bear*


Your the idiot. Every sponsor shaves in one way or another , We are just stating facts. All the major sponsors shave and the bottom line is $$$$ not if you shave or what you shave , If your the only honest sponsor out there and you installed a shaver the cash starts dropping and your "affiliates" move on thats the point. The bottom line always lies in what you take home not how much you got ripped off.

If someone said " hey i have a job for you it pays 2 million dollars and all you have to do is make me a simple logo , BUT im going to have to take a million of that for myself because i need a vacation" and another guy walked up and said " hey i have a job for you it pays $500,000 and all you have to do is make a simple logo for me , im an honest guy and i never would take any of your money " who do you pick ? Make a million , but know the guy is stealing a million from your , or take the $500,000 and make half as much knowing your with a guy who doesnt rip you off ?

So.. If a guy promises you 2 million for a job but only pays you 1 million.. you won't get pissed ???

The thing is.. The shavers don't say "I give you x$ and then shave x%" The deal you make clearly states that they pay x$ for EVERY signup.. doing anything else simply is fraud !

Another thing.. Why do people here automaticly asume that honest guys pay you less than your work is worth.. I'm sure if your logo is worth 1 million they would both pay you that.. only difference i see is that the shaving guy would have promised you 2 mill. to trick you into doing it and still only pay the 1 million, or even less...

[mrthumbs]

Originally posted by *Smokey The Bear*


Your the idiot. Every sponsor shaves in one way or another , We are just stating facts. All the major sponsors shave and the bottom line is $$$$ not if you shave or what you shave , If your the only honest sponsor out there and you installed a shaver the cash starts dropping and your "affiliates" move on thats the point. The bottom line always lies in what you take home not how much you got ripped off.

If someone said " hey i have a job for you it pays 2 million dollars and all you have to do is make me a simple logo , BUT im going to have to take a million of that for myself because i need a vacation" and another guy walked up and said " hey i have a job for you it pays $500,000 and all you have to do is make a simple logo for me , im an honest guy and i never would take any of your money " who do you pick ? Make a million , but know the guy is stealing a million from your , or take the $500,000 and make half as much knowing your with a guy who doesnt rip you off ?

i know where you are coming from and what you mean
but this is not about "what ends up in your pocket"
its about stealing and trust. And whatever math you do
on the subject its just not acceptable.

[Smokey The Bear]

Originally posted by fedfest


So.. If a guy promises you 2 million for a job but only pays you 1 million.. you won't get pissed ???

The thing is.. The shavers don't say "I give you x$ and then shave x%" The deal you make clearly states that they pay x$ for EVERY signup.. doing anything else simply is fraud !

Another thing.. Why do people here automaticly asume that honest guys pay you less than your work is worth.. I'm sure if your logo is worth 1 million they would both pay you that.. only difference i see is that the shaving guy would have promised you 2 mill. to trick you into doing it and still only pay the 1 million, or even less...

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE $$$$$

I didnt automatically assume anything. The example i gave stated 2 scenarios. You either get paid a million or half a million thats the bottom line . At the end of the day the guy who has the million is better off. Regardless of how it came to be. We can all wish for fantasy worlds where politicians tell the truth and sponsors dont shave and cops dont lie, but who are we kidding.

In the example i pointed out ti wouldnt matter if neither of them ripped me off or if both of them ripped me off what matters is how much you walk away with in your pocket.

There are other things to consider as well though , so im not using this example as every person for every instance, lets say the numbers were a little closer like 800,000 and you know they guy is stealing 100,000 or get paid 700,000 from a guy who always keeps his books open. Then i would pick the lesser of amounts because to be associated with someone you know is already ripping you off , will usually end up leading to even more problems in the future , or even by association.

[roly]

Originally posted by *Smokey The Bear*


Your the idiot. Every sponsor shaves in one way or another , We are just stating facts. All the major sponsors shave and the bottom line is $$$$ not if you shave or what you shave , If your the only honest sponsor out there and you installed a shaver the cash starts dropping and your "affiliates" move on thats the point. The bottom line always lies in what you take home not how much you got ripped off.

If someone said " hey i have a job for you it pays 2 million dollars and all you have to do is make me a simple logo , BUT im going to have to take a million of that for myself because i need a vacation" and another guy walked up and said " hey i have a job for you it pays $500,000 and all you have to do is make a simple logo for me , im an honest guy and i never would take any of your money " who do you pick ? Make a million , but know the guy is stealing a million from your , or take the $500,000 and make half as much knowing your with a guy who doesnt rip you off ?

the more webmasters that openly talk about it being ok to shave, means that the sponsors don't have to worry about possible exposure, and they can all turn up the shave machine another, notch as "the webmasters know we all do it anyway and even they think it's ok". what a joke.

[DeadFidel]

All shave, paysite affiates are the worse. Some will give you $3.95, whatever, and then keep the re-bills.

Advice: run your own shit. I have a bunch of AP, but the $ coming in is just extra cash. There is NO fucking way I would trust a second party to pay bills. What ever amount it is $300-$600 a week is fine with me...it's all their transfer cost anyway.

I don't get it. It's been done since day one, we all know it.....
Stop bitching, it's the game we play.

[Smokey The Bear]

Originally posted by roly


the more webmasters that openly talk about it being ok to shave, means that the sponsors don't have to worry about possible exposure, and they can all turn up the shave machine another, notch as "the webmasters know we all do it anyway and even they think it's ok". what a joke.

Your obviously not getting the point

This theory doesnt wash for the same reason telephone companies are starting to be more competetive. Because the new guy can always jump into the game with no shaving machine and make a quick buck.

The more webmasters talk about it OPENLY then we figure out who is paying well not who is shaving worst.

Tell me the companies you work with that are complete honest guys that never shave and are clean as sheets. ? Ill show you an ostrich with its head in the sand.

Many sponsors have shaved themselves into oblivion before and have been dropped like a hot rock.

The alternative is ?

[monro]

Originally posted by GeXus
Most programs shave.. so you need to either A. make your own sites, B. accept it (which many do, and many still make LOTS of money) or C. whine about it and end up no where

I have a paysite as well. Should never dream of stealing from my affiliates.

My hope is that you will be beaten up and robbed! And the police says: "whine about it and end up no where"

[Gemini]

Oh shut up Smokey. Did you get dropped on your head as a baby or just born dumb?



The law will catch up sooner or later to the net...

[steve90]

it may be theft, but we all know it goes on at many companys.
theres one i promoted that i got 1 sale at the first day of the pay period with normal traffic and the rest of days my traffic is 1/8th with 0 sales. i actually promoted their program MORE after i saw the drop in traffic and it stayed extremely low. every payperiod i make a sale on the first day only. its amazing how my traffic knows just when to buy from that sponsor. btw, traffic stays about even on the other sites i still promote.

[Dirty F]

Everybody who comes up with any excuse why its ok to shave please raise your hand:

1 youre a complete idiot.
2 you should be punished for saying that.
3 when i open my webmaster program i'll have a special section where you guys can sign up.

Thanks.

[Cash]

Originally posted by *Smokey The Bear*
FOR THE RECORD -- GAMMACASH SHAVES
FOR THE RECORD -- CECASH SHAVES
FOR THE RECORD -- NASTYDOLLARS SHAVES
FOR THE RECORD -- PORNKINGS SHAVES
FOR THE RECORD -- WEGCASH SHAVES

You say this, but in your sig you promote them all and say:
Cecash . Highly respected and pays great
I trust your sig.

[Gemini]

3 when i open my webmaster program i'll have a special section where you guys can sign up...

Too funny! I bet it's inundated too.

[pussyluver]

Flip side - affiliates cheat.


Hit bot for awhile, buy 50 memberships and then vanish after a check or two. Takes a little organization, but..... Then do it all over again under a different name.

So you're a sponsor and get screwed a couple of times. Ya get pissed off and a bad attitude. Throw in some major greed...

I'd rather rev share and get $8.23/month for active memberships than the big hit for converting a trial or one month.

Makes cheating not as likely.

[Dusen]

Isn't the whole idea here to know your traffic, and send it to the sponsor that makes you the most money?

But what do I know, I haven't gotten a signup in my life. I just post here for fun.

[brand0n]

its part of the biz, get used 2 it. shaving is like spam. gonna be around for ever