i keep telling myself to buy some post-it notes (the little ones) next time i get supplies. but usually when i do that, my monitor gets covered in little notes, lol.

i can deal with it if they don't know what they want stuff to look like, that's not as much of a problem.

the problem lies in the fundamentals of the site. things like how they're going to promote the site (who to/how it's going to be marketed), that sort of thing. then it's pretty much shooting blind.

but, what is important for a designer is research. not to duplicate others, but to find out what works, what doesn't. sure, you can waste a few hours doing that, but it's time well spent.

exactly... that's what it all boils down to. The designer needs to know the purpose and the premise of the site, more than "I wanna get rich!" (and the marketing doesn't hurt either) then you can build it well.

oops... i made a typo in my post. when i said shooting blindly, i meant without knowing the target audience. although i'm sure you know what i meant.

overthinking is the enemy!

I battle it constantly.

any site specifically?

I have a sort of a different take on party style sites. Rather not give out specifics here though.

Something like this: http://tour.wildandready.com/nc.html

yeah... that's some serious overkill there. But not my work bro. :winkwink:

Not your work?? I was damn sure you made that one????

nope... that one is a product of the infamous pensfan.

Strange, well ok sorry bout that ;)

50 elements of something something

it must look profesional

you got it all wrong man....

it must BE professionally DONE..... looks are a product of the plan.


okay, I'm tired and half looped. Time to go to work. My posting skills are diminished.

Not realy, like amp said it must be proffesionally done. Why do you think the most shitty sites convert the best?

you got ICQ :)

edit: Quashe

A designer has to know how to sell. The prettiest design in the world doesn't mean shit if it doesn't sell to the surfer. I have no doubt that a plain text site could sell better than some of the people pushing out paysites for 200 dollars these days.

this is my whole point. Too many people today are locked into this mode of "pretty" design.... buyers and "designers" alike. There is a time and place for everything. Pretty isn't always appropriate.... and plain text isn't always appropriate either. Both can work well if used in the right context, but there is alot of middle ground between those two also.

Of course not. Especially not for porn. I was just making a point about how shitty some of these pure eye candy websites are when it comes to making money. Even plain text would beat them.

Personally, if i was going to make myself a paysite, it would be pretty basic. Heavy on text, and graphics to compliment it. Why? Because i know how to use text to pull in a surfer, more than i know how to use images to grab their attention. That, and i suck at making stuff look pretty anyways.

i dont know WTF you call it, but whatever Quashe does, he's got THE RIGHT STUFF goin on....

I think it can partially be attributed to the fine weed he gets in Amsterdam

I think one of the key factors in design is NOT just beign able to make pretty things. 90% of people miss the point of GETTING a design done in the first place. MARKETING. Sad to say, the majority of designers now have NO knowledge in marketing, know nothing about their target audiences, the niche they're promoting, have no understanding of the dynamic of that little corner of the market. Paysites, galleries, all of them, are basically newspaper ads. You are not tryng to dazzle surfers with the beauty of you're creation. You are trying to SELL THEM A PRODUCT. Just like an ad in the newspaper.

You don't make a newspaper ad all pretty and not incorporate anything to do with your product. IT SHOULD BE ALL ABOUT THE PRODUCT! Myself I come from a strong background of advertising, print marketing, etc, otherwise I would be one of the many who don't understand this part of the business. TRULY good designers aren't the ones who make the most wonderful webpages to look at. They are the ones who make the webpages/galleries/ads with the most impact, productivity and generate the most interest in the product. This is why simplicity often works better than elaborate, if nice, designs. Because when all is said and done, pretty pictures are nice, but it's your MARKETING skills that will make the end user whip out the plastic. I think more designers would do well to do some research before taking on projects. A few hours of investigation can go a long way in producing results that will blow a client away with productivity.

This is why one person will buy a design from someone and have it work REALLY well, and someone else will buy a design for another niche from the same person and have it flop. Some designers just design better for certain niches, because they understand them better, either through experience or whatever.

Blending aesthetically pleasing design and good marketing is a science, even an art. But it's not something just anyone can do well, and it's definitely not something that happens overnight.

Now I'm done my short novel. I feel cheated somehow :P

Excellent post LM, so are yours AMP

Basically the most important things have been stressed: Having a plan that would work for your project (considering product & target audience) is number one, and can be done by anyone who has a good understanding of marketing (although this already rules out a lot of the designers out there). Blending it into a design is where the real skills and magic kicks in, and only a talented few manage to do this.

For my personal projects I do all of the design work myself, but if I could make a top 3 based on price and quality I'd say:

1) QuaShe (very cheap for what you get - quality)
2) Dickmans Design (excellent middle ground, decent price & great design)
3) Amp (need I say more..)

My 2 cents

Agreed, which is the constant headache. I love getting good detailed specs and high level of interest/decisions from the client. These always turn out to be the more successful projects.

Some of this needs to be controlled by the client. They should check each designers portfolio and match appropriately. If you're looking for plain, cheap design don't ask someone with a fancier, pretty style to do the work. Should go without saying but..

:thumbsup Great reading - 'bookmarked' !

That looks like a serious case of PLEASE CLICK THE THE JOIN LINK.

:1orglaugh

Appriciated :thumbsup

So very true.

:thumbsup

Great thread.

Can someone post a link to Amp's portfolio?

nice