JimmyStephans

Chargebacks on ourselves?????

Jimmy here from LPZip.com -- a small instant download content site. I have an interesting scneario I would like some opinions on.

I've been running a special deal with 1GB of content for $200.00. I've had a few takers over the last few weeks and all has gone well. Except, yesterday I got notice from my bank that I have a chargeback from one of the buyers of that special.

I checked everything. He signed for the CDs when I sent them by FedEx, he completed the online license agreement, etc. The only thing I could think of is a simple mix-up. My company name is Lifestyles Photo Company, but the site is LPZip.com. The receipts he would get by email when buying say Lifestyles Photo Company, and it clearly says on the site several places that Lifestyles Photo is what will show on the receipt and VISA statement. But, I thought, maybe he didn't recognize that name.

I called the guy down in Texas yesterday afternoon and calmly introduced myself. I explained why I was calling and asked why he would charge back the $200.00 purchase.

His answer was "Everybody else does it on the net, why shouldn't I?" He then hung up. I emailed him a few minutes later and the email address he used for the license bounced, but the one on the receipt didn't and he replied just today by saying "What, you think I'm a fucking dumb ass and will pay for something I don't have to?"

Frankly, I'm almost speechless. The guy -- who should be part of the adult internet community and helping fight chargebacks so we can all stay in business -- clearly thinks its OK to chargeback (which in my mind is fraud or stealing).

Now for the part i want help with. What do I do?

A Drop the issue?

B Post his real name / email name on these types of boards to let others know?

C Contact his sponsors and let them know he is hurting the adult business community -- including their own business?

D Fight the charge back with the FedEx receipts (which takes a bunch of my time -- time I'm already short on daily)?

I'm lost....

Jimmy

Libertine

B, C & D. That fucknut needs to be brought down, whoever he is.

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some_idiot

E: Call the cops, that's credit card fraud. Plain and simple.

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doober

that is fucking wrong

post his info so we can out this bastard...as if biz inst hard enough!!!

chemicaleyes

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ukxtra

All except A. bring this fucking bastard down and sue the balls off the fucker too. And as he didn't pay, surely the license is invalid too?

Theo

wtf

detoxed

Sue him. He admitted that he did a chargeback just because the credit card company lets him.

chemicaleyes

do you have an email with him saying:
"What, you think I'm a fucking dumb ass and will pay for something I don't have to?" ..?

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Theo

let this for a couple of months fade away and one day have a bulker start spamming his personal info to a huge remove/antis list. Not for a day or two, but for a whole month.

wyldblyss

Welcome to the club and good luck in any attempt to fight Visa on the chargeback. Visa has gone so far as to tell companies that if anyone files a chargeback for any transaction that takes place on the Internet they automatically get it, no questions asked.

I have a mainstream business that has nothing to do with the adult industry and I have been hit hard by chargebacks. I have yet to "win" with Visa. I have tracking information, proof that they received what they paid for but that does not seem to matter to them at all.
It is frustrating and makes me so angry sometimes I just want to close up shop. The biggest problem though is the Internet itself which inspires communication. Put frankly, people talk and word gets around FAST. Everyday there are more and more people that find out that it is very easy to get a ton of free stuff. They hear how easy it is, do it themselves and then tell 10 others that do the same.

I honestly don't see an end to the problem unless half of the companies on the Internet band together and file a suit against Visa forcing them to investigate claims and only allow chargebacks if they are deserved. Visa isn't about to do that though because it would be costly for them. As it stands now, most people fill out a simple form at their bank and they get their money back. Heck, I don't even know if filing a suit against Visa is even legally possible.

the only other solution would be an alternate payment method that does not yet exist. Some companies I know of have stopped accepting credit card payments and have moved to just money orders.

To me it is theft, but the people doing it have this belief that all companies are rich and it is a " tax write off" and they never actually lose anything so what they are doing isn't actually stealing.

Is there any way that you can revoke his license for the content?

Snowone

Didn't he just invalidate the content license by charging back the purchase??? Watch his sites and when he uses the content nail him to wall via his host.

The fedex slip should be faxed to your cc processor as proof delivery.

You probably should have a hard copy of the signed license mailed back to you instead of using a online form.

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Freeway

What a dick.

nofx

B Post his real name / email name

post a phone # and i can assure you he will have to change his number within the week, post an address if you want to make his life miserable

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Peter Romero

Just like on a model release... if the item was not paid for, the license is invalid. Post his name & call your lawyer. If you don't have a lawyer and you are in the porn biz... then it's your fault. BTW - remind him that any other purchases done by him online will be declined by the third party CC processor because of the chargeback.

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BillyHoe

Revoke the license, and then go after him with a DMCA claim. Where ever, or who ever he's using the content for will be shut down immediately.
Hopefully your license asks for domain names. If the license does you have the domains you have him by the nuts. Contact his host, processor, and sponsors anyone who is directly profitting from him will have to drop him asap.
just my 2 cents but that should help

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CoSMeTiC

Well I was checking out your content deal, as I'm always on the lookout for good buys and decided to see what other people had to say about LPZip. Maybe the guy charged back cause he didn't want to support child porn?

Are you the same James Steven Grady?

MakeMeGrrrrowl

I'm not sure why you think that's so hard. All you do is call the card holders issuing bank, and fax them copies of the signed receipts. They will not allow him to charge back, or at least they MOST LIKELY wont allow it. I'd fight it with his bank, AND with Visa/MC whoever the card was with. Also fax them copies of the signed fed ex slip, it should be pretty simple.

Shannon

twistyneck

James Grady was found not guilty. http://reason.com/hitandrun/002601.shtml

jigg

DMCA him and get a lawyer
If he doesn't pay back you can either sell his debt to a collection agency or take him to small claims court, that way he'll pay your court, lawyer and chargeback costs

i wouldn't let him get away
the reason people think it's okay to charge back it's because nothing will happen to them, everyone is just passe
We've learned to chalk it up and move on
And that's wrong.
You wouldn't let people walk out of your brick and mortar store without paying you why should it be any different for online?

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Ron Bennett

He doesn't have a signed credit card receipt. All he has is a FedEx slip. So ok, say the guy signed for it...still doesn't document he actually made the purchase.

Fighting a charge back on a "Card Not Present" transaction is extremely difficult...

Some approaches on-line merchants use to reduce charge backs:

Some on-line merchants require one to fax a copy of their credit card, including the back for the signature part (or another ID that has a signature). Quite inconvenient - also may be against VISA/MC's rules for merchants to be requiring folks to do that.

A less extreme approach is a merchant will accept the credit card information, etc on-line, generate a receipt, and then require the purchaser to print out the receipt, sign it, and then fax it back to the merchant as proof of purchase.

None are fool-proof...ultimately, this guy may lose (or not fight it) the chargeback.

But not all hope is lost...just because the credit card company didn't accept the payment, doesn't mean the debt disappears.

He could simply send the customer a bill for the product/service received, including the chargeback fine, shipping, etc. And then if the customer doesn't pay, he can send it for collections and/or file suit in small claims court (though he'd likely have to fly to Texas where the purchaser is located).

Ron

CoSMeTiC

My most sincere apologies, perhaps I should expand my search beyond the world of GFY from now on.

Dirty F

That was pretty bad dude.

doober

gfy isnt the holy grail of all adult info.....

Dirty F

No Oprano is!

;-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

doober

Serge loves you Battuss

JimmyStephans

Hey everybody - thanks for the tips.

I've come up with a third option that I think will work.

I'm going to send him links to this board so he knows what others think of him and what others think I should do.

Then give him a short time to correct the problem and pay up.

If he doesn't, then I follow the suggestions here and post his name / email.

As for going to his host. Well, you can get his main listed site, but how many others does he have / use. DCMA calls for a pretty exact description of the image in question -- but my $200 content deal is over 10,000 images

Who has time to list all that -- I mean if the host is a stickler and insists that DMCA be followed exactly, like some of them do.

I'll keep everyone posted.

As for those fake Child Porn Charges -- If anybody is up for a long look into that case, here is two links.

Local Tv Stations site:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/tech...77/detail.html

But, even better. A local newspaper assigned a very experienced investigative reporter to look into the matter. He worked full time for 6 weeks -- reading the charges, looking the the pictures, reading the entire transcript of the motions hearings and trial, and interviewing models, parents and others from all across the country.

His very ong and detailed story can be found here:

http://westword.com/issues/2003-08-1...l/1/index.html

You can get a PDF there if you want.

But, I think these two paragraphs from that story say alot about it:

"In examining how this massive child-porn ring evaporated into thin air, one thing stands out: how little law-enforcement authorities understood the law. A review of court documents, as well as interviews with legal experts and participants in the case, shows that cops and prosecutors had far more than their share of misinterpretations, misunderstandings and flat-out mistakes. Some may have been intentional.

"They jumped in with both feet, without knowing what they were getting into," says Andrew Contiguglia, one of Grady's lawyers. "They didn't understand the law, and they didn't understand the facts."

When all was said and done, James Grady understood the law better than anyone."

Take note of the line: " Some may have been intentional. "

The cops made it all up to film a TV show and feed their egos -- nothing in my pictures is different than what can be bought at the local grocery store with models of the exact same age -- as we showed the jury.

Jimmy

MakeMeGrrrrowl

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Bennett
[B]

He doesn't have a signed credit card receipt. All he has is a FedEx slip. So ok, say the guy signed for it...still doesn't document he actually made the purchase.

Fighting a charge back on a "Card Not Present" transaction is extremely difficult...

It's not as hard as everyone makes it seem. With the signed fex ex receipt he should be fine. I fax in my toll free phone bills showing that someone called from that persons house and how long the call was which matches the charge, and I've been returned the money on several occasions with NO signature. Then again, I'm a really agressive person who wont take no for an answer.

darksoft

Write it off and move on. I've gotten more webmaster chargebacks than I ever got from surfers.

Gemini

1) Remove Visa from the equation...
2) Remove 'chargeback' from the equation...

What's left? Theft across state lines and who knows what else.

Call the Prosecutor in his city and see what info he'd like to see before he sends some cops over to pick the guy up on Felony Charges.

Post his name and city so we can email the inmates before he gets there. ;-)

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Matt_WildCash

I'd personally write it off as part of doing business in the adult industry. Everyone gets chargebacks, everyone loses money to crooks in this business sooner or later, hey you only lost $20-30 for shipping count yourself lucky. His licence isn't valid anymore. And he will be using other peoples content he downloaded too so he will be in trouble sooner than later.

The guy sounds like a prick but is he worth wasting your time on?

Ron Bennett

You don't have to document every single infringement nor every page/site on a particular internet provider (includes most webhosting companies)...documenting enough to show to that infringement exists is sufficient under the DMCA.

For example, say someone copies all 10,000 of your images...document a sampling of images and URLs and you're good to go. No need to send a list of all 10,000 nor all URLs - DMCA is written to make "takedown" relatively simple.

The only area where things get tricky under the DMCA is if the infringing party responds with a counter-notification...but even then it's not necessary to document every infringment - showing a pattern is sufficient - same is also true in getting a court order, should that prove necessary.

Ron

JimmyStephans

UPDATE --

Thanks for all the advice.

After a email from me and links to 3 borads with this discussion, he sent a PayPal today for $200.00 to keep me from posting his name.

I guess its over.

Jimmy

http://www.lpzip.com/ 1GB Content for only $200.00

icedemon

I'd let out his name anyway unless he gives you more money for going through this whole thing. If he tried screwing you over, he's going around screwing over other people also.

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slapass

Jimmy,

The way you handled this whole thread was cool. Good luck in the future.

Weppel

He fucked you, you fuck him.

Post his name anyway

SpaceAce

No kidding, what kind of bullshit is this? You got your $200 so now you'll just leave us to get burned by this asshole one by one? Without the threat of exposure, which wouldn't have worked without all of us webmasters, you would not have gotten paid. If your story is true, outing this dumbass is the only way to go.

SpaceAce

stocktrader23

I would have gotten my $200 AFTER I called him out publically.

Cheers.

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crockett

least you finally got paid, but think of it this way.. he wasn't going to pay you intill you were going to go public.. this means he is probally scamming others aswell or plans too..

you should do everyone a favor and post his info..

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JDog

He should pay for the chargeback too! Shit, I know those aren't cheap. If he does, fuck him, like he fucked you!

jDoG

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