Well, when an average looking guy and an average looking girl walk into a bar and both ask 10 strangers if they would sleep with them, the girl would probably get 8-9 yes answers, but the guy would be lucky to get one yes. The fact it's so easy for a girl to score a guy makes her a slut when she has sex with a lot of different guys in my opinion. When a guy scorese a lot of girls he's the man!

Well i'll just keep waiting then

i dont need men who dont agree with that in my life

But what do you consider being "treated like a woman"?
Not having to take responsibility for your actions? (hitting someone and not getting hit back)
Not being expected to work equally hard? (lifting heavy stuff when moving, for instance)
Not being expected to be able to control your own finances? (paying for dinner and such, for example)

Sorry, but if you want to have rights, that also brings along duties. Ofcourse, there are differences between men and women. That doesn't, however, exempt you from the bad things life has to offer.

goodnight??? it's 9:45 in the morning! (6:45am for you, right?)

did you pull an all-niter over this Jen?

im gonna think on that... im too confused tonight to respond... good points though.

maybe.....

Can you pop a baby out of your dick and have it suck on your nipple to survive? Maybe when you can you might have a point.

So, because women can have babies they don't have to take responsibility for anything else in life?
Ridiculous point.

Ofcourse they have to take responsibility for other things in life, but really buying a girl a dinner is the least you could do. And as for lifting heavy stuff, do you seriously think women are capable of lifting things of heavy weight as a man is?

I totally agree with punkworld. I'm a women and have had three kids "popping" out AND sucking on my nipple. So what? As was stated before there are obvious diffrences. Just because women can have kids doesn't mean we should be treated diffrently. Maybe at times *periods, pregnant* but other wise no. The same goes for men.

Of course we all live with different rules. No one ever said life was fair and equitable.

The trick is to get to a point where it doesn't matter. For the most part it really doesn't matter what other people think of you. The only exception to this is when you are trying to get to the top in the business world. Once you get there, you can do pretty much what ever you want as long as you don't really piss off the FTC.

Buying a girl dinner is the least I could do for what? Because she may have someone's children by her own choice at some point in the future?

And as for lifting heavy stuff, ofcourse there are physical differences. Just like with weaker men. Heavy is ofcourse a relative concept, so she can lift the tv while I lift the couch.

It is a never ending arguement either way you want to put it. I guess in reality it is just going to come down to the man and the woman involved. I could argue you all night, but you are a female and it would obviously be a waste of time arguing how a woman *should* be treated to a woman herself.

If you want to be treated like a bloke and get punched back by your husband than by all means. But for me I could never do that, and I would never want to marry a woman that would expect me to do that, or attempt to raise my children to act like that.

:)

We're in 2003 not 1964 anymore. If I go on a date either I or the guy could pay. Doesn't have to be him. Why should it? "The least you could do is buy her dinner"...? The least you could do ? WTF does that mean??
I have been with my husband for 5 years now and I don't expect him to open the door for me , push my chair in , pay for dinner and a movie etc...He does it when we wants to or when I want to get my way :Graucho But there's no reason why men "should" have to do these things JUST because they're men :2 cents:

So if I want to beat on my husband as much as I want and him just take it?

Your husband would be a fool to marry (or stay with) such a woman. But in my opinion he would be an even greater fool to beat you back.

blah blah blah. You want to be treated like a guy whatever, your life. And just because it is 2003 doesn't give any excuse for tradition, culture and morals of the past to be totally thrown out the window.

Same here.

I don't look at it from the fact I'm a guy (maybe I do....) its just that I've been brought up all my life not to do anything untowardly to women. Treat a woman good I was always told by my mum! So I do...

Some morals and traditions I believe in and some I don't. Simple as that. As you stated before we could talk about thi sall day. Everyone lives their own lives, we're all diffrent and thats what makes the world go round.

:)

Yep it does. Not neccesarily in a good way at all times tho!

A wise proverb I made up quite a few years ago: Smack man with impacted tooth, plan on butt impact with floor. :1orglaugh

ARGGGGGGGGGGG !!! :1orglaugh
Just like a man... always has to have the last word eh ;)
lol

Traditions throughout history:
-slavery
-burning "witches"
-no voting rights for women
-human sacrifices
-religious persecution
and a few thousand other things.

Just because something is a tradition doesn't mean it's good.

Should I list the Western traditions that are good? They could go on for a few pages you know? And morals are what hold together a society - and as such their deconstruction should not be taken lightly.

My bad. :thumbsup

As could the bad ones. The point is, something being tradition does not make it good or bad, so something being tradition isn't an argument for anything.

Hell, if humanity should stick to traditions, we should all still be living in caves eating raw meat with our bare hands.

And if society over the years were to have totally disregarded tradition, culture and morals we would likely be doing the same thing.

Where did you get the idea that morals are what hold together a society?

And, as you should know as a sociology student, morals tend to change over time. It's called progress. Being the huge fan of Islam you are, you should see the worth of adjusting morals over time and not blindly sticking to the ideas of the dark ages.

Who said anything about disregarding those things?
It's quite simple to take a concept, evaluate it, and see if you should keep it or throw it out the door, without considering "tradition" a reason to keep it.

"Caves or houses? Ofcourse, houses work better, are more logical and give numerous benefits, but caves are tradition, so let's just stick with those."

The socialisation of any person involves the passing down of morals, values and a way of life from one generation to another generation. If this process were not to take place, a human would turn out to be little more than an advanced ape.

I am no fan of Islam, but I have studied it a bit recently. Their morals don't appear to restrict them to living totally in the dark ages, and I see nothing wrong with them developing their own society based on them.

I think women should learn to take responsibility for their actions. Most women know that a man could kick their ass, but they will hit them anyway, because a man "shouldn't hit a woman". I call bullshit! If you put yourself in a man's shoes, expect to be treated that way. It pisses me off to see a woman do that, and then say "He can't hit me back cuz I'm a girl". If she is the type of person to do that, then she is the type of person who needs a good ass whoopin'.

Grow the fuck up, and don't hit someone without expecting that person to react accordingly.

"Working women or non-worken women? One interesting point to make about women entering the workforce is that it actually decreased the standard of living for the majority of people. Previously, a sole income was enough to raise a large sized family, but due to the inflation, etc caused by the entering of women into the workforce, most people can not even raise a family of 2 or 3 without a dual income - all in the name of 'progress' I guess." (Not all 'progress' is necessarily good 'progress'.)

Nice dodge, but Islam was just an example, as you well know. Do you see the worth of adjusting morals over time or not?


You seem to be confusing morals with the entirety of a culture.
Besides, it still isn't a reason to stick to the exact same culture as time progresses and avoid any form of change.

So what reasons do you have for believing that tradition alone is a good reason for keeping aspects of a culture?

Where exactly did I say that everything should be changed blindly for the mere sake of change?
I do recall saying "It's quite simple to take a concept, evaluate it, and see if you should keep it or throw it out the door, without considering "tradition" a reason to keep it." in the post you only partly quoted.


Besides that, do you think women should be denied the right to work because of the decreased standard of living? Do you even realize that there is more than just a material standard of living to life?

Ofcourse things will change over time, but my point is that the deconstruction and removal of certain morals (part of the foundation of current society) can never be taken lightly. For one to simply dismiss it as 'progress' is rather ignorant.

I believe I intially said morals, traditions and culture. You singled out tradition and morals, and attacked me in the belief that I thought they were the only things holding society together - something which I obviously do not believe.

Remember you were the one that isolated tradition, not I. I never said that tradition ALONE was a good enough reason for anything.

Is being able to feed a child, or being able to have enough children to meet replacement levels a material thing? I don't think so. And no, I do not wish to deny all women the ability to work if they choose, but I would not be opposed to the promotion of the traditionally structured family (ofcourse, as I mentioned, it is a bit hard to maintain now).

Anyway punkworld, you are an interesting guy to debate, but I really can not afford to waste my time doing so. I got an essay due at 8AM and it is now almost 3. I am sure we could argue each other into the ground all night, and neither's point of view would differ.

I have to go now myself, but I'll gladly continue the debate at another time. Remember, the goal of debating is not just to persuade the other, but also to see your own standpoints in a different perspective. :glugglug

I could never hit a women, not even if she started laying into me...

i just had a baby girl 2 months ago, my best friends wife is preg with his 1st son

he called me and told me this

when you have a boy, you only have to worry about 1 penis, when you have a girl, you have to worry about them all

Yeah but when you throw that hook and see her hit the ground its soooooooooooo satisfying :thumbsup