50 :D

Nah youre wrong they, dude are allowed to have those weapons, wanna know why? Because....because....err...because they are the USA!

well obviously all motives for action might not be fulfilled so quickly. i'd imagine iraq had a lot of time to get those WMD out of there, i mean, physically they couldn't have taken up the area no bigger than a football field, and they had a whole country to hide um in. so it'd be clearly idiotic to assume we'd find them quickly. tell me how long it'll take you to find a needle in a haystack

3 posts deleted???? Who and why?

and it takes much longer if theres no needle inside :winkwink:

Beside tthe point.. as usual...

Here goes again:


PS: In the UN , Powell clearly showed the locvation of the "presumed" WMD. Rumsfeld saisd over and over again that they knew where they were...

i wasn't beside the point... i addressed it:

"well obviously all motives for action might not be fulfilled so quickly. i'd imagine iraq had a lot of time to get those WMD out of there"

as in, perhaps the WMD wasn't a fake motive on behalf of the US. you can't automatically assume we can account for everything, especially something a country had the ability to hide in advance.

edit: therefore the motives they did have for persuing the war (WMD and ridding iraq of saddam) were true. they fulfilled one objective, the other might be a bit harder.

But you can go to war over" unaccounted something"....

You said above:
So be honest with yourself if you can't be with others...

The war had nothing to do with WMD ( a diversion operation, that's all!)

Sure they are.
They are just run by americians now.
http://www.phrusa.org/waronterror/letter_032103.html

i m sure that the 11-09 was made by rumsfield

http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/IMG/jpg/doc-807.jpg

he looks sooo innocent

perhaps they weren't un accounted for? maybe iraq had hid um well? logically they could do that pretty easily w/ the space allowance of say, a full country.

so it'd be stupid to totally assume the war had nothing to do with WMD unless you had direct intelligence that they never existed. which you don't.

therefore you must wallow in speculation. but never think you know ;)

obviously a lot of you are just taking hold of this oppurtunity and milking it for all it's worth since its a republican in power and we're all democrats here right? i'm sure if it were big bad pornstar bill clinton you'd be behind him all the way. or atleast more open to the war ;)

Actually, you can't hide them that well. Sure, a test tube of whatever, but you have to make the 'whatever', you have to have the missile delivery apparatus, you have to train the guys to use it, you have to have the antidote, you need the repair bays, you need the support apparatus....... and heaven forbid they should buy any of it and leave a paper trail, like the fake Niger nuke papers the CIA 'found'.

All that's been found so far is some papers from 198'something' in a back garden which could have been a students thesis or anything, some trailers with dual use purposes, some missiles with a length 1cm over the proscribed length and some aluminium tubing also known to be dual purpose. Even if you argue that's a 'liberal' view of the above items, it's still a whole galaxy away from a single WMD.

Given the time elapsed, and more importantly, the chance to use some dodgy interrogation techniques on all the scientists, generals etc. which have brought up diddly squat, I think it's safe to assume Bush either lied to everybody, or it was the largest failure of intelligence I've ever known. Gawd damm big failure, so big it is genuine unbelieveably.

Go oil. Go petrodollar.


The sad thing is it looks like America has sowed the seed of another few decades of increased terrorism. Hope the oil was worth it. What goes around comes around I guess.

:thumbsup

And to think people call the French pussy's...

there never was any.. if they had any they would of used them by now for sure.. the second usa started coming twards them they would of fired off everything.. they didn't have anything

Between 1991-1998 when the UN inspectors withdrew from Iraq there were tons of WMD materials/rockets/artillary rounds destroyed. When the inspectors pulled out in 1998 they estimated that 95% of the WMD's had been destroyed. It was the remaining 5% that Resolution 1441 called for the production of and destruction of. Saddam said that they had took it upon themselves to destroy the remainder of the WMD's but failed to offer one iota of proof of this...thus did not comply with 1441. Resolution 1441 was passed 15-0 and stated that he would comply or suffer "severe consequences"...he did not comply...thus the US and its coalition forces supplied the "severe consequences".

Go Go Go Bush

BTW anybody saw how welcome Mr Bush was in England :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

UN resolution ... but why:

- Is it the US that started the war, not the UN?
- the US decided against going back to the UN to get a formal endorsment?


You can spin it as much as you want, there wre no WMD, so the war was "sold" on false pretenses and false documents.

they're buried and hidden deep in the underground channels that Iraq has running all underneath the country. Says me. :2 cents:

How is that relevant ? As you say, it was a UN resolution and for the UN to apply whatever the UN deemed 'severe consequences'.

You can hardly justify Bush's actions by referencing a UN resolution because it wasn't the UN that invaded.

It was Bush who invaded prolly following those little voices in his head.

I think it's irrelevant whether Saddam hid WMD in heap of camel dung or not. People will always try to justify their actions or conceal their motives by some sort of rationalizing or moralizing...

I wouldn't pass judgement on Bush or the war but I feel it is not going well. Warren Buffett has said that you shouldn't spend money to SOLVE problems, you should AVOID them.

So the problem is here, money will be spent and lives will be lost... not sure if anything good will come out of it though.

Why not the UN...because the UN is a weak debating Society and has acted only in the case of Korea and that was only because the Soviet delegate fucked up and was not present for the vote...or they would not have acted then.

The US and Great Britain being members of the Security Counsel decided not to wait another 12 years for the UN to debate some more. It was they that had the expense for 11 years containing Saddam. Saddam made Iraq a target.

I have always stated that...in my opinion...WMD's were not on the short list for the Invasion of Iraq...but that does not mean that there were any "false pretenses". You...nor I...nor the media...have access to the documents in the 14 intel agencies that pertain to Iraq. The Senate Intelligence Select Committee has been investigating for the past several months...and are still investigating the intel that was provided to the President. When their investigation is completed there will be a report as to...the Administrations exaggeration/lies or an intel failure.

Do not forget another thing. The UN imposed sanctions against Iraq...and by some accounts (which I do not entirely accept as being accurate)...there was a loss of several hundred thousand to in the millions of Iraqi' lives because of the sanctions.

Because of the US actions and asking the UN...these sanctions have been reluctantly lifted by the UN. Is it that you and those like you would have preferred the sanctions remain in place for another 11-12 years while the great debating society...the UN...debated the Iraq "problem"?

And only you and about 5% of the American people believe that was the real reason we attack and/or that the weapons even existed.

Btw..the U.N. **NEVER** gave the United States permission to carry out anything related to "Resolution 1441".

With leaders like the Bush's (yes both monkey boy and his dad) who needs to pick any other country when we can't even get our own shit together long enough to be considered a coutnry worth a fuck.

We are the youngest on this planet but yet we have to have leaders who think we rule all other countries and what we say is the final saying.

USA still has alot to learn about democracy, taking the blinders off their eyes and liberating this god damn country that shuns anything and everything that is not christian like.

Nothing against anyone who lives in the USA or is an American (because I am a fucked up american too), but I so wish I had been born in either Ireland or Canada...I hate living in the USA ARRGGGG :321GFY YOU BUSH!!!

Yes! Then we would not have the mess we have in Iraq with American troops dying daily!

If there is no threat to the United States from Iraq (which there wasn't), it's always better to talk than to fight!

That requires a president that has the capacity to do so, other than:

" Bring them on"


TheKing, How can you justify the invasion on resolution 1441 passed by a " weak debating Society " ( your words )...
And when is Israel going to be invaded on the basis of 30+ not respected UN resolutions???
Or is there 2 justices...

You still have...and apparently always will have...a comprehension problem. I have never stated that I believe "that was the real reason" and in fact have repeatedly stated otherwise.

"weapons even existed"...I suppose the tons of WMD's and WMD facilities that were destroyed by the UN inspectors between 1991-1998 was just a propaganda ploy. Who knows...I was not a member of the UN Inspection Team.

This has been argued by legal scholars...and will be...I suspect for the next one hundred years or so...and will never be definitively resolved.

Is it a felony record that prevents you from obtaining a passport and moving from the country you hate? Hell...just be a stowaway...as many of the Irish did...when they were migrating from that wonderful land...to America.

The weapons of mass destruction are in my basement :Graucho

Did you ever hear me say that "I justify" the invasion of Iraq based on 1441. I believed prior to the invasion...and still believe...the invasion of Iraq is an extention of the global war that was declared on "terrorists" after 9/11. Saddam...being the fool that he was...made himself...thus Iraq...a target...so the US took advantage of this and strategically positioned themselves to confront the entire middle east if need be...and hopefully that need may not arise...if the mission to make Iraq a Democratic Republic succeeds...and I am not sure that it will.

As for Israel...it is a teachers pet...and the US will...in perpetuity...protect Israel. Many wrongfully believe it is because Jews control this or that in our country. American Christians represent the largest number of supporters of Israel...and they have a reason for their support.

Saddam????