Who says they won't Kevin?

Thank you, sir.

Brad, good call, lets see the fucking sponsors! I wanna see them stand up against this!

Theft is theft.
If the robber this month takes less than the robber who dropped by last month, should I thank him for that and invite him back?

They're both thieves.

Carrie, don't be naive, girl.

When I was writing software for sergescash,
first thing I have done was sending traffic to Ron Levi and Al Hadhazy, which was counted by me as outgoing.
In both cases I was given credit for ...between 80 and 86% of the hits sent. THEIR counts gave me the "magic number" of multiplier for my counting engine.

And guess what? I was VERY competitive with them and had no problems finding webmasters to send me traffic, webmasters who were sending traffic to Ron and Al and who knew my counts are similar to those of the above.

SOME people swear they got with me bigger checks than with Al and Ron for the same amount of traffic sent, some didn't...
\
But the proof is in the pudding....$34,000,000 worth of traffic was sold in one year, the traffic they could easily sell to other sponsors if they chose to do so or beleived they can get more money from others.

WHY should I give away 15% others don't? just to be called "honest Serge" bt Carrie and few others with high principals and low business sense?????

it aint worth $5,100,000.....

Christ this is so true.

yeh, who wants to hear the names of siccash, ce, cen, mostcash/pbits, intergal, etc, etc, etc...

what a shocking revelation ;)


NOTE: all comments used in the spirit of parody only...


:thumbsup :thumbsup

that would be cool

LOL, I hope they do. It will be interesting to see what happens.

WAY off topic, but....

Brad, can you please hit me up on ICQ, 52175714

Thanks

Fiddy :thumbsup

50 liars!

Loser :thumbsup

yo baby daddy!

The choice isn't as you imply: between a dishonest sponsor from whom you earn well and an honest sponsor from whom you earn less well. There is absolutely no reason you cannot make your choices between honest sponsors.

I'm not willing to be constantly looking over my shoulder to see if someone has turned up the shave-o-meter, any more than I will waste my time chasing someone with a question for a week.

Why should I work with people who think that honesty, efficiency and courtesy are options, when there are plenty around who conduct themselves professionally?

but how can you really tell? and I think that is the situation - you've got to assume everyone shaves and just look at the bottom line - It sucks but what else can you do?
I think the lie detector thing is funny, but they're not 100% accurate - would suck for someone to get over-nervous and fail even if they were innocent.

start your own program and don't shave yourself is the only answer :)
what sort of proof would assuage your shaving fears?

My post was solely intended to address KK's question as to whether the issue mattered...

But you are right that it is usually impossible to be certain that someone is not shaving.

That said, if sponsors behave professionally in ways you can determine - including how they conduct themselves on boards like this - and to all outward appearances run dynamic, solid businesses (check out their tours, consoles, webmaster tools, processor, etc), they must represent a better risk. There will always be exceptions, but people are usually consistent.

If someone acts like a cowboy and has an outdated business model, he may not be a cheat too, but there are certainly better people to choose to work with.

This is all true.

I'll pitch in for the rental.

Interesting. I got an email from what many would term a 'cowboy' just the other day.

I'm way more inclined to deal with this person, whose been around for years, than I am to deal with a new program or someone I dont know.

I guess the old timers just look at things differently, especially in light of reading Serge's post

do it and post results

That wouldn't take long. The cowboy prepays.

Another one making assumptions: I have been doing this since '96 and I'm 53 years old. On both counts I probably score as an "old timer"... if indeed that is any recommendation.

And you are doing the same thing again as in your first post: implying that the choice is between two opposites when it isn't. There are plenty of sponsors who have been around a while who have not fallen for their own legends.

There's a reason they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream.

I'd have them arrested and thrown in jail. It is a crime. It is against the law. I'm not talking about a civil issue here. It is fucking fraud. What the fuck are you guys thinking?

KK, I agree with most of the things you say but there is nothing OK about a sponsor shaving and if I here you say it again I'm going to be real nervous next time you ask me for traffic. For God's sake can we get some integrity up in here?

Agree completely.

That'd be a funny indictment though. People of the State of California v. ---- Bucks

Count I - Shaving

Count II - Theft of clicks

Count III - Traffic Re-Direction

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

See, despite what some of you may think, you have to admit Brad does have some good ideas.

:thumbsup

Do you fill out a 1099 for the sponsors? If so, you are a contract employee and they are stealing from you.

First off, I'd have to ask you for traffic.

And we've had this discussion how many times over?

I'm not going to rehash it again, but the company you keep is as telling as not.

And before anyone starts guessing that was a general comment,.

I think both sides are right.

It does'nt matter if they shave or not... it's the check you get.

And personally, I'd stop promoting a sponsor who says out right that they have. No matter if you they need me or not.

My opinion is it's bad business... if you know they are shaving :Graucho

id pay money to see this

Very well said Rick.:thumbsup

Jeeez,

Kimmykim is right. (Those words make me shudder) ;)

Shave...who cares.

When chosing who to send traffic to , three things matter.

1.) The check amount
2.) The cheque amount
3.) The wire amount.

My most profitable deals were done with 3 firms who would certainly be known for circling the wagons.

Between the three of them they probably paid me CAN$ 10 million.

Am I happy with being shaved?

You fucking betcha!

;-))))

I'm afraid to look over my shoulder now, there might be four horsemen coming over the horizon.

Shaving is the equivalent of fraud two times over -

Why?

1) By offering X per sign up (Usually a high amount smaller programmes can not compete with), the shaver gains many, many more webmasters to promote his biz - This is giving him an unfair advantage over smaller programmes.

He keeps conversion ratios down by only showing 2nd and 3rd page hits - Not first page hits - Giving the impression webmasters are getting good results.

2) He is stealing your cash - Downright stealing.

Thieves like this don't just stop there, do they?

How anyone can agree with this is beyond me.

Oh grow up!!!!!

If you don't think you are being shaved , the program owner is doing a good job.

1.) Prolly 8% of all clicks never register anyway
2.)You prolly don't get credited for back up processing when primary fails 10 -15% , and checks 3%
3,)Then there is of course the "instashave" in the program , or just switching MKstats off. ;-))))

Get real people!

you are being shaved.

Some shave less than others thats all.

Its reality.

and Brad , the ones that took the lie detector test and said

"" We'll we shave a bit (sheepish grin)""

Are the ones I'd do business with

The easiest thing is build a tiny paysite of your own. Send the same traffic to it which you were sending to affiliate A.

check your numbers :-))

Whyy do you think ,ev entually , all traffic whore players open the own paysites.

Jeeeeeez....you guys are dumb!!!!!

;-))))))

What shes trying to tell you is watch what happens to affilaite programs in the near future.

Serge I still send traffic to sponsors who I know shave me. I chuckle every time a program that I haven't promoted in a while suddenly kicks me back a signup out of the blue (the shave program encouraging me to send traffic again).
I work with it and I acknowledge it, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. :)

Btw others have said "if you don't like it, open your own paysite and send your traffic to that"... wise words that I've followed. Now just working on getting the promo materials ready so we can really push the traffic!

In-house promotion and small groups of established traffic-sending affiliates. :thumbsup
If you're not working for someone or in that small group, things aren't going to be fun for you...