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Far-L

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#1

Matrix and Acacia

10-24-2003, 09:55 PM

I would like everyone to know that Norm from Matrix was one of the first to lay down big cash to fight this despite their being offered a ridiculously cheap licensing deal. Matrix continues to support the IMPA.

If Norm says he did not give the list to Acacia then I believe him. He supported us when no one else even knew what Acacia was.

After speaking directly with Norm, whom I have only good reasons to trust, I know there are other explanations of how the Matrix list got out. Matrix is actively seeking the source and intends to prosecute if necessary for the misuse of that highly confidential information.

We are also concerned about our customer list being used inappropriately and if anyone has any information we would be very interested in the details.

Everyone needs to be patient and wait for facts to come out and not make any further conclusions drawn from possibly inconclusive circumstances. The truth will come out soon enough.

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#2

10-24-2003, 10:03 PM

Yes.
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#3

10-24-2003, 10:32 PM

And when it does... hopefully... everyone will have all the information that they need about who did what to whom when and how...

Until then...

Everyone needs to chill and look forward to the day in Court.

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#4

10-24-2003, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by Far-L
And when it does... hopefully... everyone will have all the information that they need about who did what to whom when and how...

Until then...

Everyone needs to chill and look forward to the day in Court.

I seriously hope that part of your discovery can be finding out who gave Acacia Webmaster information and who is consulting with them.

Who has given Acacia webmaster information is important in your discovery because you are being named as a possible source by webmasters and it could be said that whomever has given Acacia webmaster info is doing that to hurt your business.

Whoever is consulting Acacia is important to your discovery because they could be targeting you on purpose to make it seem as though you are giving Webmaster information to Acacia.

If the above angles don't work, there has to be some angle where you can work in a valid reason for discovery of this information that is pertinent to your case.

It could be said that whomever is consulting with Acacia is purposely targeting certain companies to make them look bad and eliminate competition if they are in the industry. But we don't even know if anyone is consulting with them so this is all hypothetical at this point.

Last edited by Bladewire; 10-24-2003, 11:02 PM.

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#5

10-24-2003, 11:05 PM

Thanks for the post Far-L, I will wait to find out more before making up my mind about what happened.

Thanks to Matrix too for putting money into the fight against Acacia.

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#6

10-24-2003, 11:07 PM

It's a known fact that these recent attacks from ACACIA were leaked through Matrix. I just hope they figure out exactly what happened and not spit out some bullshit to protect their reputation and business. I have nothing against Norm or Matrix Content and have never done business with them but this is bullshit.
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#7

10-24-2003, 11:09 PM

I play with Google.
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#8

10-24-2003, 11:11 PM

i have heard the same things as Far-L, as the case probably is with others speculated as to have handed over lists to Acacia, there are other possibilities as to how Acacia got information from certain databases.

most likely the situation for many of the companies being accused of these acts is more a case of 'if you sleep with dogs, u get fleas'.

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#9

10-24-2003, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by JSA Matt
It's a known fact that these recent attacks from ACACIA were leaked through Matrix. I just hope they figure out exactly what happened and not spit out some bullshit to protect their reputation and business. I have nothing against Norm or Matrix Content and have never done business with them but this is bullshit.

FALSE

The FACTS are that people have gotten packets that NEVER did business with Matrix. Another FACT is that people have gotten packets that did business with people including Matrix.

I don't think it's wise to be blaming one of the TWO people that have stood up against these accusations by us.

Am I still the only one who finds it odd that NONE of the other sponsors are coming forward to say that they HAVEN'T given our info out? They have remained silent and that says a lot more to me then someone standing up against our accusations!

I'm not taking sides and I'm not making any judgements. I don't do business with ANY of the people involved and I'm impartial. I have no loyalties. Nobody's paying my bills while I'm busting my ass with this Acacia issue.

I think that through this court process we will find out who has given our information out and we can act accordingly. Until then take notes and stay informed.

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#10

10-24-2003, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by Squirtit

I think that through this court process we will find out who has given our information out and we can act accordingly. Until then take notes and stay informed.

Agreed,

And as soon as we find out who. BLACKLISTED. The motherfuckers who gave out contact info will PAY in some way or another.

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JSA Matt

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#11

10-24-2003, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Squirtit
FALSE

I'm sorry Squirt, but as far as my situation goes, it IS a know FACT that this name and address came from Matrix. I have heard others that have never even touched the Matrix site in their life that got the same letter and this just leads me to believe that there are more sponsors that gave out information.
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#12

10-24-2003, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by JSA Matt

I'm sorry Squirt, but as far as my situation goes, it IS a know FACT that this name and address came from Matrix. I have heard others that have never even touched the Matrix site in their life that got the same letter and this just leads me to believe that there are more sponsors that gave out information.

Matt if Matrix was the only possible reason Acacia got your info.. is it feasible that big companies share/sell their lists? I'm not saying Matrix has done or does this. But if they did this... and one of the big guys started consulting with Acacia.. is it fair to say that Matrix could have inadvertently given the list to someone who gave it to Acacia at a later date? This is all hypothetical?.. but consider other possibilities other then Matrix purposely giving it's list directly to Acacia.

Again.. we don't know all the facts and circumstances.. until we do it's important to take notes and keep informed.

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JSA Matt

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#13

10-24-2003, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by Squirtit

Matt if Matrix was the only possible reason Acacia got your info.. is it feasible that big companies share/sell their lists? I'm not saying Matrix has done or does this. But if they did this... and one of the big guys started consulting with Acacia.. is it fair to say that Matrix could have inadvertently given the list to someone who gave it to Acacia at a later date? This is all hypothetical?.. but consider other possibilities other then Matrix purposely giving it's list directly to Acacia.

Again.. we don't know all the facts and circumstances.. until we do it's important to take notes and keep informed.

I do understand that there are other possibilities but either way Matrix would be at fault. If they shared my information with anyone without my consent, they are at fault. If the information was stolen, they are at fault. I honestly have nothing against Matrix Content. I've always loved their stuff and this hurts me to point the finger at them but I cannot stand by and watch this happen. Something needs to be done or the direction of this industry will continue to go DOWN HILL.
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#14

10-25-2003, 12:00 AM

JSA Matt: Nobody is doubting what you are saying. I am simply pointing out that others had access to the Matrix DB and I trust Norman when he says that he did not sell out his customers.

I like to follow the money in situations like this and that usually helps reveal the intricacies of what is actually going on.

When I follow Norm and his wallet, it has been to our benefit and he has continued to support us, unlike others that have actually lied about helping.

When everything comes out in the wash, I think you will find Matrix has been very clean, upstanding, and worthy of praise.

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#15

10-25-2003, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Squirtit

Matt if Matrix was the only possible reason Acacia got your info.. is it feasible that big companies share/sell their lists? I'm not saying Matrix has done or does this. But if they did this... and one of the big guys started consulting with Acacia.. is it fair to say that Matrix could have inadvertently given the list to someone who gave it to Acacia at a later date? This is all hypothetical?.. but consider other possibilities other then Matrix purposely giving it's list directly to Acacia.

Again.. we don't know all the facts and circumstances.. until we do it's important to take notes and keep informed.

I have nothing against Matrix, but if Matrix did give another big company it's list of customers do webmasters want to be doing business with a company that sells or gives out their personal information freely? I certainly don't!!!!!! (again, this is my personal feelings, I do feel that a business I'm doing business with should respect my privacy)

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#16

10-25-2003, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by Far-L
JSA Matt: Nobody is doubting what you are saying. I am simply pointing out that others had access to the Matrix DB and I trust Norman when he says that he did not sell out his customers.

I like to follow the money in situations like this and that usually helps reveal the intricacies of what is actually going on.

When I follow Norm and his wallet, it has been to our benefit and he has continued to support us, unlike others that have actually lied about helping.

When everything comes out in the wash, I think you will find Matrix has been very clean, upstanding, and worthy of praise.

I still can't believe that people lied about helping. Why do you think they did that?

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#17

10-25-2003, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by Squirtit

I still can't believe that people lied about helping. Why do you think they did that?

This industry has grown to be way too fucking superficial. It's all about reputation and money.

If I had money to contribute to this cause I would be all over it. Just like most people here, i'm living paycheck to paycheck and doing what I can to get by.
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#18

10-25-2003, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by JSA Matt

This industry has grown to be way too fucking superficial. It's all about reputation and money.

If I had money to contribute to this cause I would be all over it. Just like most people here, i'm living paycheck to paycheck and doing what I can to get by.

I hear ya!

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#19

10-25-2003, 12:39 AM

We have not given out any information about any of our affiliates and do not intend to.
I do know for a fact most of the companies we buy content from have settled, in the early stages, with them.
what I mean by the early stages, The early stage was before the contract was changed and no longer required info on who they sold content to.

Originally posted by Squirtit

Am I still the only one who finds it odd that NONE of the other sponsors are coming forward to say that they HAVEN'T given our info out? They have remained silent and that says a lot more to me then someone standing up against our accusations!

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#20

10-25-2003, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by Stud Money
Yes.

you are just annoying now
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#21

10-25-2003, 03:55 AM

A shrewd old businessman once told me early on in my career,

"If there is one thing to always remember and live by in business, never believe anything people say at its face value when money is involved."

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#22

10-25-2003, 03:56 AM

no

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#23

10-25-2003, 03:59 AM

Originally posted by Wildcard
no

what he said

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#24

10-25-2003, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by KRL
A shrewd old businessman once told me early on in my career,

"If there is one thing to always remember and live by in business, never believe anything people say at its face value when money is involved."
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#25

10-25-2003, 06:17 AM

not once in my life have i ever chilled out and waited for my day in court...

want to buy this spot for cheap? it is of course for sale. long term deals are always the best bet. brand0n/ at/ a o l dot commies.
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#26

10-25-2003, 06:38 AM

If it's one thing I figured out about Norman from talking to him, he has a very extremely strong sense of integrity. If he says he didn't sell his customers out, he didn't. His customers are EXTREMELY important to him, and I don't think in a million years he would risk his reputation and business he's spent so long and hard working to build and break that integrity. I'm sure there's another explaination and it will come out in time.

Even still, Matrix's database is NOT the only one that Acacia has, and honestly, laying the blame at anyone's feet at this point is moot until there's 1) proof and 2) an explaination.

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#27

10-25-2003, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief
If it's one thing I figured out about Norman from talking to him, he has a very extremely strong sense of integrity. If he says he didn't sell his customers out, he didn't. His customers are EXTREMELY important to him, and I don't think in a million years he would risk his reputation and business he's spent so long and hard working to build and break that integrity. I'm sure there's another explaination and it will come out in time.

Even still, Matrix's database is NOT the only one that Acacia has, and honestly, laying the blame at anyone's feet at this point is moot until there's 1) proof and 2) an explaination.

This is very true LM. Norm would have to be a fool to do that. However everything from everyone seems to have MC as the common link, so ultimately if it shows MC is releasing confidential clients records either intentionally as part of the deal with Acacia or without realizing it by employee theft, careless server database protection, reselling lists, or whatever, MC is responsible and should accept responsibility.

Its a pretty sad state of affairs now because webmasters are going to be extremely reluctant to place their personal information with anyone because a zero trust factor has arisen with companies most people thought were safe to do biz with.

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#28

10-25-2003, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by KRL

This is very true LM. Norm would have to be a fool to do that. However everything from everyone seems to have MC as the common link, so ultimately if it shows MC is releasing confidential clients records either intentionally as part of the deal with Acacia or without realizing it by employee theft, careless server database protection, reselling lists, or whatever, MC is responsible and should accept responsibility.

Its a pretty sad state of affairs now because webmasters are going to be extremely reluctant to place their personal information with anyone because a zero trust factor has arisen with companies most people thought were safe to do biz with.

Very true.. the trust level will be absolutely 0. And what's really tragic is that I honestly don't think Norman would do that to his customers.. so the loss of trust really wouldn't be his fault. He has to suffer for someone else's unscrupulous activities, be that person within his company or from without. In fact, the ramifications for the industry as a whole are going to be extreme, I fear.

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#29

10-25-2003, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief
If it's one thing I figured out about Norman from talking to him, he has a very extremely strong sense of integrity. If he says he didn't sell his customers out, he didn't. His customers are EXTREMELY important to him, and I don't think in a million years he would risk his reputation and business he's spent so long and hard working to build and break that integrity. I'm sure there's another explaination and it will come out in time.

Even still, Matrix's database is NOT the only one that Acacia has, and honestly, laying the blame at anyone's feet at this point is moot until there's 1) proof and 2) an explaination.

Very well said. While I have never bought content from them at all, I do have a membership with Matrix and always have had, and have done business with them on different levels other than content purchases and I have to say that Norman is one of the most upstanding people I have met in this business. There have been a couple of situations over the years where Matrix and I have found ourselves involved with one another and every single time, they have been right there BESIDE me, helping me and so on, never once did they ever NOT help when I needed the help and always did it with the most professional attitude.

So when it comes to Norman and Matrix, if he says it is so then I believe him as well. ;)

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#30

10-25-2003, 06:52 AM

Does anyone know if Norm had any disgruntled employees within the past 6 months? Or fired ones etc?

I doube it would be Acacia hacking.

Has Norm stated for a fact whether he has or has not ever sold lists with everyone's data on it?

These are questions that should be answered.

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#31

10-25-2003, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by Tam

Very well said. While I have never bought content from them at all, I do have a membership with Matrix and always have had, and have done business with them on different levels other than content purchases and I have to say that Norman is one of the most upstanding people I have met in this business. There have been a couple of situations over the years where Matrix and I have found ourselves involved with one another and every single time, they have been right there BESIDE me, helping me and so on, never once did they ever NOT help when I needed the help and always did it with the most professional attitude.

So when it comes to Norman and Matrix, if he says it is so then I believe him as well. ;)

Absolutely.. He may be my competition, but I can't lie and say he is anything but what he is. And he's also a damn nice guy, too.

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#32

10-29-2003, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by Far-L

Matrix is actively seeking the source and intends to prosecute if necessary for the misuse of that highly confidential information.

Is OJ still looking for Nicole's real killer?

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#33

10-29-2003, 07:37 AM

if you have proof that your info was given to acacia from the matrix database, contact matrix. norman says he will contact law enforcement. at least give him the chance before deciding he is guilty of deliberately giving out his list.

i don't know him, but IF that list was stolen, acacia will have to explain this. i would love to see that happen!

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#34

10-29-2003, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by 12clicks

Is OJ still looking for Nicole's real killer?

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#35

10-29-2003, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by Far-L
I would like everyone to know that Norm from Matrix was one of the first to lay down big cash to fight this despite their being offered a ridiculously cheap licensing deal. Matrix continues to support the IMPA...

Folks seem to be missing the key fact that Matrix Content SETTLED with Acacia...

...thus whatever Matrix Content and its agents publicly state at this point is likely very tainted and should be taken with a grain of salt...people in business lie all the time...

...while folks debate the list, one should stick with the known facts...the primary fact being, Matrix Content settled with Acacia. That alone says a lot about the company...

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#36

10-29-2003, 09:15 AM

All I know is Acacia sent me two letters and one had the info I used to signup at Matrix, I know this for a fact. I don't care how Acacia got it from Matrix, fact is THEY GOT IT FROM MATRIX.

Therefore, fuck Matrix, no matter how much I want to buy some of their content, I will never buy any ever again.
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#37

10-29-2003, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by Far-L
I would like everyone to know that Norm from Matrix was one of the first to lay down big cash to fight this despite their being offered a ridiculously cheap licensing deal. Matrix continues to support the IMPA.

If Norm says he did not give the list to Acacia then I believe him. He supported us when no one else even knew what Acacia was.

After speaking directly with Norm, whom I have only good reasons to trust, I know there are other explanations of how the Matrix list got out. Matrix is actively seeking the source and intends to prosecute if necessary for the misuse of that highly confidential information.

We are also concerned about our customer list being used inappropriately and if anyone has any information we would be very interested in the details.

Everyone needs to be patient and wait for facts to come out and not make any further conclusions drawn from possibly inconclusive circumstances. The truth will come out soon enough.
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#38

10-29-2003, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief

Absolutely.. He may be my competition, but I can't lie and say he is anything but what he is. And he's also a damn nice guy, too.
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#39

10-29-2003, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by 12clicks

Is OJ still looking for Nicole's real killer?

I bet the real killer and the one who leaked all the info to Acacia are one and the same!!!

This goes all the way back to the Kennedy Assasination, man!!!

Knights of the Templar, secret society shit!!!

I hope that I am not "snuffed" out before this is all done!!!

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#40

02-20-2006, 01:21 PM

Minions???
" would like everyone to know that Norm from Matrix was one of the first to lay down big cash to fight this despite their being offered a ridiculously cheap licensing deal. Matrix continues to support the IMPA.

If Norm says he did not give the list to Acacia then I believe him. He supported us when no one else even knew what Acacia was."

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#41

02-20-2006, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by AlienQ

Minions???
" would like everyone to know that Norm from Matrix was one of the first to lay down big cash to fight this despite their being offered a ridiculously cheap licensing deal. Matrix continues to support the IMPA.

If Norm says he did not give the list to Acacia then I believe him. He supported us when no one else even knew what Acacia was."

You are kidding right? Matrix attended one meeting to organize and then disappeared. They didn't put forth one dime for the defense group.

This is a ridiculously old thread to bump and one that can only hurt your palsy walsys...

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#42

02-20-2006, 01:38 PM

We made that statement at a time when that was all we had to go on. Now we know a great deal more but I have to keep mum on that - Ask your lord protector to lift the confidentiality order he demanded and i would be happy to give you the details though...

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#43

02-20-2006, 01:41 PM

So they DID do it? Damn

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Far-L

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#44

02-20-2006, 01:42 PM

Oops... my bad, Matrix did chip in for the original attorney meetings when we were getting the group together.

Then of course they settled and Acacia wouldn't let them spend another dime to help us...

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

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#45

02-20-2006, 01:49 PM

Ahh huh...

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Pornwolf

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#46

02-20-2006, 01:53 PM

Doh! That bump hurt.

I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade...

Webair, bitches.
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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

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#47

02-20-2006, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Pornwolf

Doh! That bump hurt.

It probably gets better actually...

I wonder where that money came from?

Which might actually lead me to another bump...

Since there was an interesting period where Matrix was not signed by Acacia yet they donated money for the initial meetings. Somebodies arms must have been tied...

But it never stopped the urge to fight.

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ForteCash

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#48

02-20-2006, 02:02 PM

SO, whats the deal with acacia right now? have heard or read anything about it in a while.....

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

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#49

02-20-2006, 02:06 PM

And that something I speak of is just a hunch...

But a crux of somthing very Heroic that no one would ever know.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

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#50

02-20-2006, 02:07 PM

And thats somthing I would bet why some papers will never see the light of day.

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