Congress supports Tax on Adult Websites - GoFuckYourself.com

FightThisPatent · 10-19-2003, 09:41 AM

For those that haven't been following the threads and news about Acacia, let me briefly bring you up to speed so you can understand why the thread topic is titled the way it is.

Acacia Research (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com) has some patents (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/patents.htm) that claim essentially to owning the process of downloading audio or video files from a web server.

They sent out "information packets" to many companies, some adult, some to schools and universities.

They are demanding license fees (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/te...t_adultent.htm) for payment of using their "patent".

Some adult websites have licensed their patent (see Press Releases at http://www.acaciatechnologies.com) while others have joined together to form the IMPA (http://www.impai.org) and to also become defendants in litigation.

FightThePatent.com (http://www.FightThePatent.com) was formed on August 12th as a one-man crusade to bring awareness to these issues and to assist the defendants to find prior art (with no compensation).

Many GFY'ers jumped into the search for prior art, using this page http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Searching.html to help find stuff to look for, and http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Squirt.html to see what prior art examples were posted.

FightThePatent.com has now broadened its scope to propose the start of Fight the Patent Foundation ("FTPF")(http://www.FightThePatent.com/go) to help fight against patent abuse.

And now that you have been brought up to speed.......

Acacia's licensing structure includes a minimum payment of $1,500/year if you make likess than $50K/year. If you make more, then the figure is like 2% of GROSS.

In licensing their patent, you have to open your books to them so they can verify your GROSS sales. When you sign the license agreement, there is a provision that states if the patent is found invalid, YOU DON"T GET YOUR MONEY BACK.

Having someone take 2% of your GROSS REVENUE is exactly like a tax...except you know the tax by the government is legit (whether you agree with it or not is a separate story). The Constitution created the provisions to start the Patent Office and Congress created Patent Laws. So companies like Acacia are enforcing their rights to (abuse) patent and civil law to enforce their claims.

What's of greater concern, besides my opinion that the patent is invalid given prior art, is that there are other patent holders in this space making similar claims with their patents (USA VIDEO, SIGHTSOUND).

If each one of these companies came around to charge 2%, along with other patent holders like patents on shopping carts, e-commerce, exit consoles, etc.... the resulting total tax would put the current corporate tax structure to shame.

At least with the IRS, you can deduct expenses to reduce your tax base.. .with these licensing fees, it's off the top. So 2% of GROSS could actually be like 20% of NET (or higher).

Do you want to pay more "taxes"?

If this makes you mad, join IMPA as a member... it's an adult industry organization that is a watchdog on many issues that concern webmasters, with patents being one of them.

Pledge $100 or more support for FTFP to become an ACLU-like organization that fights against patent abuse.

Fight the Patent!

myjah · 10-19-2003, 12:07 PM

nice sum up and lots of good links...FIGHT THE PATENT!

FightThisPatent · 10-19-2003, 01:00 PM

For those who may think my thread title is misleading:

The titling of the thread was intentional to get people's attention who normally might otherwise skip over ones with Acacia in them.

The title is not misleading... Congress enacted the Patent Laws that give Acacia and other patent abuse holders the right to use Civil Law to "convince" people to license their patents.

I am not saying that i am anti-patents.. patents have their place, especially ones that are narrow and very specific, and instead of broad.

Since Acacia is claiming a 2% of GROSS on revenue, it's no different than IRS asking for 21+% on taxes (tho IRS allows for deductions).

Since Congress created both the IRS and USPTO, the indirect conclusion, tho admittly sensationalized to bring attention, is that Congress does support a tax on Adult Websites.

I realize it's like play 6 Degrees of separation of Kevin Bacon, but I felt that more attention needs to be drawn to this subject, and maybe approaching from a different tactic, ie taxes, would get people involved... afterall, the tax man cometh for all.

Fight the Patent!

FlyingIguana · 10-19-2003, 01:03 PM

misleading title should mean deleted thread like it usually does

Bladewire · 10-19-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingIguana
misleading title should mean deleted thread like it usually does

I think he tried but it doesn't let him edit the thread

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FightThisPatent · 10-19-2003, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingIguana
misleading title should mean deleted thread like it usually does

It's not misleading, maybe you didn't read my second post to explain things.

Fight the Patent!

FlyingIguana · 10-19-2003, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

It's not misleading, maybe you didn't read my second post to explain things.

Fight the Patent!

you can twist shit anyway you want, its still misleading

FightThisPatent · 10-19-2003, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingIguana

you can twist shit anyway you want, its still misleading

if you didn't feel like reading my long posts that explain things, that's fine.. but for those that do read it, its not misleading... its sensationalizing, but still on target to the subject.

There are FAR worse offending thread titles.... can you not see the point of the post was to bring attention to this Acacia issue for webmasters who just don't understand or don't get what this is all about?

Fight The Patent!

init · 10-19-2003, 05:52 PM

i never really read to much about everything with Acacia , but from what i hear basically they got a patent for an idea and not a solid product and want everyone to pay them for it?

FightThisPatent · 10-19-2003, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by init
i never really read to much about everything with Acacia , but from what i hear basically they got a patent for an idea and not a solid product and want everyone to pay them for it?

exactly! worse yet, what they INTERPRET their patent to mean, is different than what the patent says....

So defendants have to go to court to defend themselves against the infringement claims to show that what they are saying is invalid.

They have already managed to convince the big players to license their patent... this does not mean the patent is valid, just that these companies made business decisions to settle rather than fight.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-20-2003, 07:33 AM

bump

if you think you were mislead into reading this thread, and if my explanation post doesn't clarify things for you, please respond to let me know why my thinking was wrong.

Fight The Patent!

jact · 10-20-2003, 07:38 AM

You should probably mention that people who have not entered into license agreements by November, they're threatening to annex 15% of their gross revenue instead of this "generous" 2% with arrangements for previous infractions.

If you think 2% hurts, 15% is going to really take a chunk.

FightThisPatent · 10-20-2003, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact
You should probably mention that people who have not entered into license agreements by November, they're threatening to annex 15% of their gross revenue instead of this "generous" 2% with arrangements for previous infractions.

If you think 2% hurts, 15% is going to really take a chunk.

ya, what he said

Fight the Patent!

Brad-Wishing · 10-20-2003, 10:20 AM

*twitches* I hate acacia.

fiveyes · 10-20-2003, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact
You should probably mention that people who have not entered into license agreements by November, they're threatening to annex 15% of their gross revenue instead of this "generous" 2% with arrangements for previous infractions.

If you think 2% hurts, 15% is going to really take a chunk.

Ahhh, I recall when it was just 0.75% back in February of 2003. Those were the days...

FightThisPatent · 10-20-2003, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fiveyes

Ahhh, I recall when it was just 0.75% back in February of 2003. Those were the days...

I think that was their rate if you were a net radio station.

Fight the Patent!

fiveyes · 10-20-2003, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

I think that was their rate if you were a net radio station.

Fight the Patent!

Yes, it was, and that brings another observation to mind about the current situation:

If you go to http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/te...y_internet.htm you'll see that the "Adult Entertainment" section contains three on-line licensing documents, ready for signing and return. But, and this is what strikes me, the other six classifications don't. Instead, they have instructions for the individual companies to contact them, some by e-mail (the other three internet applications that use video or audio) and some by phone (cable, hotel and e-learning). What's all that about anyway???

FightThisPatent · 10-20-2003, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fiveyes

Instead, they have instructions for the individual companies to contact them, some by e-mail (the other three internet applications that use video or audio) and some by phone (cable, hotel and e-learning). What's all that about anyway???

Ya, like someone is gonna just call them up and say, "here's my money". I think those are just placeholders since they have their hands full right now.... those other industries would most likely put up a perceived fight, so their choice to go with the "low hanging fruit" was a better one.

Couldn't Miss Cleo see this thing coming?????

Fight the Patent!

Eyes_Without_A_Face · 10-20-2003, 04:43 PM

I say FUCK THE PATENT

FightThisPatent · 10-20-2003, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eyes_Without_A_Face
I say FUCK THE PATENT

You need to add an "S" to patent. There are soo many more patent abuse cases coming to a court room near you!

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-20-2003, 07:58 PM

Listen in on Acacia's 3rd quarter conference call on Tuesday (21st)

Anyone can listen .. it's at 1:30pst and if you miss the call you can listen to the recording for 30days. Will be interesting to see where these guys are coming from.

To listen to the presentation by phone, dial (800) 915-4836 for domestic callers and (973) 317-5319 for international callers. A replay of the audio presentation will be available for 30 days at (800) 428-6051 for domestic callers and (973) 709-2089 for international callers, both of whom will need to enter the code 309899 when prompted.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-21-2003, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent
Listen in on Acacia's 3rd quarter conference call on Tuesday (21st)

It's a free call.. freeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-21-2003, 09:40 AM

4 hours til Acacia's conference call...

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-21-2003, 09:48 AM

ooops..got the date wrong...bad source...verified it for myself this time, bad brandon, bad brandon..

Acacia Research Corporation Earnings Conference Call (Q3 2003)
Scheduled to start Wed, Oct 22, 2003, 4:30 pm Eastern

10-19-2003, 09:41 AM	#1
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	Congress supports Tax on Adult Websites For those that haven't been following the threads and news about Acacia, let me briefly bring you up to speed so you can understand why the thread topic is titled the way it is. Acacia Research (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com) has some patents (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/patents.htm) that claim essentially to owning the process of downloading audio or video files from a web server. They sent out "information packets" to many companies, some adult, some to schools and universities. They are demanding license fees (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/te...t_adultent.htm) for payment of using their "patent". Some adult websites have licensed their patent (see Press Releases at http://www.acaciatechnologies.com) while others have joined together to form the IMPA (http://www.impai.org) and to also become defendants in litigation. FightThePatent.com (http://www.FightThePatent.com) was formed on August 12th as a one-man crusade to bring awareness to these issues and to assist the defendants to find prior art (with no compensation). Many GFY'ers jumped into the search for prior art, using this page http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Searching.html to help find stuff to look for, and http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Squirt.html to see what prior art examples were posted. FightThePatent.com has now broadened its scope to propose the start of Fight the Patent Foundation ("FTPF")(http://www.FightThePatent.com/go) to help fight against patent abuse. And now that you have been brought up to speed....... Acacia's licensing structure includes a minimum payment of $1,500/year if you make likess than $50K/year. If you make more, then the figure is like 2% of GROSS. In licensing their patent, you have to open your books to them so they can verify your GROSS sales. When you sign the license agreement, there is a provision that states if the patent is found invalid, YOU DON"T GET YOUR MONEY BACK. Having someone take 2% of your GROSS REVENUE is exactly like a tax...except you know the tax by the government is legit (whether you agree with it or not is a separate story). The Constitution created the provisions to start the Patent Office and Congress created Patent Laws. So companies like Acacia are enforcing their rights to (abuse) patent and civil law to enforce their claims. What's of greater concern, besides my opinion that the patent is invalid given prior art, is that there are other patent holders in this space making similar claims with their patents (USA VIDEO, SIGHTSOUND). If each one of these companies came around to charge 2%, along with other patent holders like patents on shopping carts, e-commerce, exit consoles, etc.... the resulting total tax would put the current corporate tax structure to shame. At least with the IRS, you can deduct expenses to reduce your tax base.. .with these licensing fees, it's off the top. So 2% of GROSS could actually be like 20% of NET (or higher). Do you want to pay more "taxes"? If this makes you mad, join IMPA as a member... it's an adult industry organization that is a watchdog on many issues that concern webmasters, with patents being one of them. Pledge $100 or more support for FTFP to become an ACLU-like organization that fights against patent abuse. Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957 Last edited by FightThisPatent; 10-19-2003 at 09:44 AM..

10-19-2003, 01:00 PM	#3
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	For those who may think my thread title is misleading: The titling of the thread was intentional to get people's attention who normally might otherwise skip over ones with Acacia in them. The title is not misleading... Congress enacted the Patent Laws that give Acacia and other patent abuse holders the right to use Civil Law to "convince" people to license their patents. I am not saying that i am anti-patents.. patents have their place, especially ones that are narrow and very specific, and instead of broad. Since Acacia is claiming a 2% of GROSS on revenue, it's no different than IRS asking for 21+% on taxes (tho IRS allows for deductions). Since Congress created both the IRS and USPTO, the indirect conclusion, tho admittly sensationalized to bring attention, is that Congress does support a tax on Adult Websites. I realize it's like play 6 Degrees of separation of Kevin Bacon, but I felt that more attention needs to be drawn to this subject, and maybe approaching from a different tactic, ie taxes, would get people involved... afterall, the tax man cometh for all. Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-19-2003, 05:52 PM	#9
init Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 973	i never really read to much about everything with Acacia , but from what i hear basically they got a patent for an idea and not a solid product and want everyone to pay them for it? __________________ icq: 2721653

10-20-2003, 07:33 AM	#11
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	bump if you think you were mislead into reading this thread, and if my explanation post doesn't clarify things for you, please respond to let me know why my thinking was wrong. Fight The Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-20-2003, 07:38 AM	#12
jact Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oakville, Canada Posts: 9,134	You should probably mention that people who have not entered into license agreements by November, they're threatening to annex 15% of their gross revenue instead of this "generous" 2% with arrangements for previous infractions. If you think 2% hurts, 15% is going to really take a chunk. __________________ Free agent

10-19-2003, 12:07 PM	#2
myjah Back in the harbor Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 11,482	nice sum up and lots of good links...FIGHT THE PATENT!

10-19-2003, 01:03 PM	#4
FlyingIguana aspiring banker Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto Posts: 10,870	misleading title should mean deleted thread like it usually does

10-20-2003, 10:20 AM	#14
Brad-Wishing Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,415	twitches I hate acacia. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

10-20-2003, 04:43 PM	#19
Eyes_Without_A_Face Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The dark side of the moon Posts: 600	I say FUCK THE PATENT __________________ Poocis Pornstar Directory: English - Español - Português - Français - Italiano

10-20-2003, 07:58 PM	#21
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	Listen in on Acacia's 3rd quarter conference call on Tuesday (21st) Anyone can listen .. it's at 1:30pst and if you miss the call you can listen to the recording for 30days. Will be interesting to see where these guys are coming from. To listen to the presentation by phone, dial (800) 915-4836 for domestic callers and (973) 317-5319 for international callers. A replay of the audio presentation will be available for 30 days at (800) 428-6051 for domestic callers and (973) 709-2089 for international callers, both of whom will need to enter the code 309899 when prompted. Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-21-2003, 09:40 AM	#23
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	4 hours til Acacia's conference call... Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-21-2003, 09:48 AM	#24
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	ooops..got the date wrong...bad source...verified it for myself this time, bad brandon, bad brandon.. Acacia Research Corporation Earnings Conference Call (Q3 2003) Scheduled to start Wed, Oct 22, 2003, 4:30 pm Eastern __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957