Member wants 22 months of refunds. - GoFuckYourself.com

NetRodent · 09-30-2003, 12:25 PM

Just got the lovely email from a member who joined in November of 2001...

Quote:

I am so mad to find that you have been billing my credit card for
years now at $49.95 a month and I have been getting nothing for it!

I have not been accessing your site and I demand a full refund. My Account number, according to ibillcs, is (censored) and I have been billed $1198.80 by you fraudulently.

Ibillcs has indicated that they will issue an immediate credit for
$249.75 which leaves a balance due to me of $949.05 which I expect you to pay immediately. If I do not hear from you this week, I will take action including contacting the FTC as well as the consumer fraud division in Georgia.

Please resolve this improper billing ASAP.

(censored)

Come on, 22 months and he didn't notice he was getting billed? Seems less like a case of fraud than consumer carelessness or stupidity.

Dirty F · 09-30-2003, 12:27 PM

Find out his ip and then check your logs.

If he logged in then tell him to fuck off.

LadyMischief · 09-30-2003, 12:27 PM

Contact a lawyer.. There's no way he didn't see that on his statements, and if he did nothing to cancel it previously, I do believe he's in the wrong.

Kimmykim · 09-30-2003, 12:27 PM

I guess it's all going to depend on how many chargebacks his bank will let him push through. Be careful since it's possible for a consumer to get a chargeback and a credit for the same sale.

gornyhuy · 09-30-2003, 12:28 PM

Sounds like a case of fraud on HIS case.

twistyneck · 09-30-2003, 12:28 PM

Be sure to sue him for the $250 that ibill gave back.

beemk · 09-30-2003, 12:29 PM

cant you check his login to see how many times he logged in?

directfiesta · 09-30-2003, 12:29 PM

Don't you feel like stangling the guy????

At least ask his phone number, address, SSN, and so on... This could make him dissapear by fear of wife, employer, neighboors,....

And Ibill is at shame to reimburse him even a nickel.

loverboy · 09-30-2003, 12:30 PM

in the first place, if he was the one who signed up, he can always cancel them anytime he wishes to. i think he is too dumb to notice that every month, he being billed for that price. come on. if he files a case, a lawyer will come in handy.

baddog · 09-30-2003, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beemk
cant you check his login to see how many times he logged in?

he probably did, and saw that the guy did not login . . . sticky problem for sure

polish_aristocrat · 09-30-2003, 12:33 PM

Idiot !

NetRodent · 09-30-2003, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog

he probably did, and saw that the guy did not login . . . sticky problem for sure

Actually the guy did log in but only on the first two days of his membership. After that nothing.

We don't currently monitor dormant accounts. I'm thinking it would be interesting to see what percentage of our recurring members are dormant or long dormant.

Chris · 09-30-2003, 12:37 PM

any idea what your going to do ?

JDog · 09-30-2003, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Battuss
Find out his ip and then check your logs.

If he logged in then tell him to fuck off.

Find out his IP, and see if the class c matches the IP he signed up with? Or is close! And I don't think that you have to legally give him back 22 months of refunds!

That is just fucked up!

jDoG

Peaches · 09-30-2003, 12:40 PM

No other company would grant them more than 2 months chargebacks, there's no reason why you should either.

The only problem is - how far back will his CC company let him go? I've heard stories of porn customers going as far back as 15 months (funny how the CC companies will allow more than 2 months of CB's to porn customers, and not anyone else....). If you run a risk of shooting yourself in the foot with a higher CB rate, it might be worth it to pay him just to prevent that.

(and start using more checks processing......

)

clubsexy · 09-30-2003, 12:42 PM

Some people just pay their CC bills just to avoid late charges and what not and don't even check the statements.

I was getting billed anually for some crap that happened when I signed up with classmates.com and they did some cross sell to some vacation program.

When I called them and talked to them saying I never signed up, that's when I realized it was billing for about 3 years already. I felt stupid for not seeing the 49.95 charges.

Either way, I didn't get the 3 years prior back at all. I did get a reversal of the charge I noticed.

I look at my statements more closely now.

Kimmykim · 09-30-2003, 12:44 PM

He can legitimately get 6 months of chargebacks under his cardholder agreement in most cases. At his banks discretion they may choose to give him more than that, and it's possible they could give him all of the months back.

It sucks, yes, but this is a risk management issue, and the wisest thing to do here is to stop worrying about who's getting screwed and spend the time more effectively assessing the risk of that many potential chargebacks coming in the first month of Visa's new compliance rules.

chemicaleyes · 09-30-2003, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Battuss
Find out his ip and then check your logs.

If he logged in then tell him to fuck off.

Theo · 09-30-2003, 12:49 PM

hmmm,doesnt look good.

NetRodent · 09-30-2003, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JDog

Find out his IP, and see if the class c matches the IP he signed up with? Or is close! And I don't think that you have to legally give him back 22 months of refunds!

That is just fucked up!

jDoG

Unfortunately they're not. Currently one is RoadRunner and the other is Comcast. However in two years it would be more surprising if they were the same.

The ip from the email traceroutes to George where he appears to reside based on his reference the George consumer fraud division. The join ip currently traceroutes to South Carolina.

In two years its possible he moved or the ip addresses have been shuffled around. You can't really tell anything two years later.

liquidmoe · 09-30-2003, 12:52 PM

The best post I have seen in this thread is to monitor dormant accounts, that seems like the best option to avoid these matters in the future. Sure everyone likes to collect funds but if a person hasnt logged in in months and when he has only logged in twice it may be a good idea to contact the moron, if only to prevent future CB and other bullshit.

pamphage · 09-30-2003, 12:56 PM

scarey stuff in this thread

NetRodent · 09-30-2003, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
He can legitimately get 6 months of chargebacks under his cardholder agreement in most cases. At his banks discretion they may choose to give him more than that, and it's possible they could give him all of the months back.

It sucks, yes, but this is a risk management issue, and the wisest thing to do here is to stop worrying about who's getting screwed and spend the time more effectively assessing the risk of that many potential chargebacks coming in the first month of Visa's new compliance rules.

In regards to the new Visa rules, even if this turns into 22 chargebacks that's not going to worry us much.

Our response to him was that we'd entertain refunding his money but we'd like to know how he let 22 months go by without noticing the charges. We also don't know if he's claming he wasn't the one who joined; the email is a bit vague in that regard.

NetRodent · 09-30-2003, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by liquidmoe
The best post I have seen in this thread is to monitor dormant accounts, that seems like the best option to avoid these matters in the future. Sure everyone likes to collect funds but if a person hasnt logged in in months and when he has only logged in twice it may be a good idea to contact the moron, if only to prevent future CB and other bullshit.

Is it better to contact the subscriber or to just cancel the account?

If you try to contact the subscriber, you run the risk of reminding him that you've been billing him for a service he hasn't used. He might then want his money back.

jscott · 09-30-2003, 12:58 PM

dumbass shouldnt become members of sites without reading the billing rules, his stupid ass's loss

"what a idiot", exactly

GigaChris · 09-30-2003, 01:00 PM

wow this one's a tuff one to call

dnsmonster · 09-30-2003, 01:02 PM

I think you should pay the guy the money and consider it a dumbass tax, with you being a dumbass and not monitoring all accounts.

polish_aristocrat · 09-30-2003, 01:05 PM

I just wanted to post - refund him, since he will contact the media and they will report about bad pornographers scamming customers...but then I realised that he will rather not contact the press about it...

scoreman · 09-30-2003, 01:06 PM

If anyone is a dumbass its the cardholder who let the charges go for almost 2 years unnoticed. No offense meant Club Sexy, but at some point people need to be accountable for their finances.

FATPad · 09-30-2003, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dnsmonster
I think you should pay the guy the money and consider it a dumbass tax, with you being a dumbass and not monitoring all accounts.

I do think sites should probably monitor for inactive accounts, but in a case like this, the guy who let 22 months of billing go by without noticing is the dumbass, not the porn site operator.

baddog · 09-30-2003, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NetRodent

Actually the guy did log in but only on the first two days of his membership. After that nothing.

well, that is what I meant to be honest. this is one of the things about the auto rebill, and one of the reasons that we are having VISA issues today

JMHO

polish_aristocrat · 09-30-2003, 01:18 PM

polish_aristocrat's solution to this problem:

Give him free access to your site for the next 22 months

~Ray · 09-30-2003, 01:18 PM

NetRodent,
If he charges back 22 months and you can prove that HE signed up... take him to small claims court and you will win. He is responsible for the charges on HIS credit card...not you.

The customer is NOT always right.

~Ray

baddog · 09-30-2003, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NetRodent
Our response to him was that we'd entertain refunding his money but we'd like to know how he let 22 months go by without noticing the charges

probably the best move, if more companies had customer service like yours obviously does, we would have a lot less trouble today.

baddog · 09-30-2003, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NetRodent

Is it better to contact the subscriber or to just cancel the account?

If you try to contact the subscriber, you run the risk of reminding him that you've been billing him for a service he hasn't used. He might then want his money back.

I would vote with just canceling . . . the question is, how dormant is dormant? 3 months? 6? 12?

Thrawn$ · 09-30-2003, 01:22 PM

Give him a 3Day free trial then convert it to 49.99

grogan · 09-30-2003, 01:23 PM

Give me my fucking money back!!! My girls need booze!

WiredGuy · 09-30-2003, 01:24 PM

I thought CB's can go back as far as 6-9 months? 22 Months is absolutely ridiculous and quite honestly his fault for allowing the membership to recur month after month without looking into it, even if it was a fraudulent join.

WG

Peaches · 09-30-2003, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog

well, that is what I meant to be honest. this is one of the things about the auto rebill, and one of the reasons that we are having VISA issues today

JMHO

None of the other auto rebillers monitor dormant accounts. TiVo, Netflix, AOL, etc. aren't having the same Visa issues.

As stated before, it's the CARD holder's responsibility and I can guarantee you he'd not get more than 2 months of credit from TiVo, Netflix, AOL, etc. Unfortunately, because we're the "bad people", we have to give in where others don't.

candyflip · 09-30-2003, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peaches

None of the other auto rebillers monitor dormant accounts. TiVo, Netflix, AOL, etc. aren't having the same Visa issues.

As stated before, it's the CARD holder's responsibility and I can guarantee you he'd not get more than 2 months of credit from TiVo, Netflix, AOL, etc. Unfortunately, because we're the "bad people", we have to give in where others don't.

I'm pretty sure AOL is having all sorts of issues. Maybe not identical, but it all has to do with billing and additional charges.

There's a link here someone...it was posted last week.

baddog · 09-30-2003, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peaches

None of the other auto rebillers monitor dormant accounts. TiVo, Netflix, AOL, etc. aren't having the same Visa issues.

As stated before, it's the CARD holder's responsibility and I can guarantee you he'd not get more than 2 months of credit from TiVo, Netflix, AOL, etc. Unfortunately, because we're the "bad people", we have to give in where others don't.

actually, I thought I just read something recently about AOL having problems with their auto rebill policy.

Nima · 09-30-2003, 01:33 PM

that's some bullshit man. THe fucker should have checked his bill a little bit better. I could imagine him paying for a whole lot of other stuff that he didn't know about LOL

Brad Mitchell · 09-30-2003, 01:35 PM

I wouldn't worry about it. Tell them that IBill as the merchant processor has already settled the matter and it's out of your hands. If they want the rest of their money, tell them to sue IBill.

Brad

AbeFroman · 09-30-2003, 01:35 PM

Give the guy his money you dirty pronograffer! You tricked him with your fine print you sob! If I were you I would close up shop and do something respectable!

Looking to go mainstream? Check out our top affiliate program at Mainstream Mollah

nosey · 09-30-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SinEmpire
I wouldn't worry about it. Tell them that IBill as the merchant processor has already settled the matter and it's out of your hands. If they want the rest of their money, tell them to sue IBill.

Brad

Peaches · 09-30-2003, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WiredGuy
I thought CB's can go back as far as 6-9 months? 22 Months is absolutely ridiculous and quite honestly his fault for allowing the membership to recur month after month without looking into it, even if it was a fraudulent join.

WG

It all depends on your CC contract, but most say that you must contact them IN WRITING "no later than 60 days after we sent you the first bill on which the problem appeared" (reading off one of my statements

).

Here's another fun note on one of my cards:

"If you have a problem with the quality of goods or services that you purchased with a credit card, and you have tried in good faith to correct the problem with the merchant, you may not have to pay the remaining amount due on the goods or services. You have this protection only when the purchase price was more than $50 and the purchase was made in your home state or within 100 miles of your mailing address.

I've had to do some legitimate charge backs and I've always had to provide reams of proof. And I work with a consumer help group in Atlanta and I've NEVER seen anyone get credit for more than 60 days on any other monthly service billing except porn.

calm · 09-30-2003, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NetRodent

Unfortunately they're not. Currently one is RoadRunner and the other is Comcast. However in two years it would be more surprising if they were the same.

The ip from the email traceroutes to George where he appears to reside based on his reference the George consumer fraud division. The join ip currently traceroutes to South Carolina.

In two years its possible he moved or the ip addresses have been shuffled around. You can't really tell anything two years later.

same connection, I'd bet alot on it.

roadrunner=broadband=medione=attbi=comcast

I know because I've had three e-mail changes in 3 years.

Peaches · 09-30-2003, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog

actually, I thought I just read something recently about AOL having problems with their auto rebill policy.

From what I've run into in working with a consumer group, the problems stem from AOL not cancelling when the customer calls/emails to cancel. Not when a customer is dormant for years and doesn't BOTHER to cancel. But I could be wrong.

calm · 09-30-2003, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peaches

From what I've run into in working with a consumer group, the problems stem from AOL not cancelling when the customer calls/emails to cancel. Not when a customer is dormant for years and doesn't BOTHER to cancel. But I could be wrong.

I do believe the latter was the case.

Peaches · 09-30-2003, 01:48 PM

Looks like AOL was billing customers who had canceled:

http://crainsny.com/news.cms?newsId=6537

and double billing:

http://kdka.com/local/local_story_252174955.html

Unless there's something I'm missing, I don't see them in trouble for billing dormant accounts which hadn't been canceled by the customer.

09-30-2003, 12:27 PM	#3
LadyMischief Orgasms N Such! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oakville, Ontario Posts: 18,135	Contact a lawyer.. There's no way he didn't see that on his statements, and if he did nothing to cancel it previously, I do believe he's in the wrong. __________________ ICQ 3522039 Content Manager - orgasm.com [email protected]

09-30-2003, 12:28 PM	#5
gornyhuy Chafed. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Face Down in Pussy Posts: 18,041	Sounds like a case of fraud on HIS case. __________________ icq:159548293

09-30-2003, 12:29 PM	#7
beemk CLICK HERE Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 20,829	cant you check his login to see how many times he logged in? __________________ I host with Vacares

09-30-2003, 12:29 PM	#8
directfiesta Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 29,679	Don't you feel like stangling the guy???? At least ask his phone number, address, SSN, and so on... This could make him dissapear by fear of wife, employer, neighboors,.... And Ibill is at shame to reimburse him even a nickel. __________________ I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT ! But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

09-30-2003, 12:33 PM	#11
polish_aristocrat Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 40,377	Idiot ! __________________ I don't use ICQ anymore.

09-30-2003, 12:27 PM	#2
Dirty F Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 59,204	Find out his ip and then check your logs. If he logged in then tell him to fuck off.

09-30-2003, 12:27 PM	#4
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	I guess it's all going to depend on how many chargebacks his bank will let him push through. Be careful since it's possible for a consumer to get a chargeback and a credit for the same sale.

09-30-2003, 12:28 PM	#6
twistyneck So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hanging by the neck until dead. Posts: 4,660	Be sure to sue him for the $250 that ibill gave back.

09-30-2003, 12:30 PM	#9
loverboy When it rains, it pours Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 20,609	in the first place, if he was the one who signed up, he can always cancel them anytime he wishes to. i think he is too dumb to notice that every month, he being billed for that price. come on. if he files a case, a lawyer will come in handy.

09-30-2003, 12:37 PM	#13
Chris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: icq: 71462500 Skype: Jupzchris Posts: 27,880	any idea what your going to do ? __________________ [email protected]

09-30-2003, 12:40 PM	#15
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	No other company would grant them more than 2 months chargebacks, there's no reason why you should either. The only problem is - how far back will his CC company let him go? I've heard stories of porn customers going as far back as 15 months (funny how the CC companies will allow more than 2 months of CB's to porn customers, and not anyone else....). If you run a risk of shooting yourself in the foot with a higher CB rate, it might be worth it to pay him just to prevent that. (and start using more checks processing...... )

09-30-2003, 12:42 PM	#16
clubsexy Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 1,630	Some people just pay their CC bills just to avoid late charges and what not and don't even check the statements. I was getting billed anually for some crap that happened when I signed up with classmates.com and they did some cross sell to some vacation program. When I called them and talked to them saying I never signed up, that's when I realized it was billing for about 3 years already. I felt stupid for not seeing the 49.95 charges. Either way, I didn't get the 3 years prior back at all. I did get a reversal of the charge I noticed. I look at my statements more closely now. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

09-30-2003, 12:44 PM	#17
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	He can legitimately get 6 months of chargebacks under his cardholder agreement in most cases. At his banks discretion they may choose to give him more than that, and it's possible they could give him all of the months back. It sucks, yes, but this is a risk management issue, and the wisest thing to do here is to stop worrying about who's getting screwed and spend the time more effectively assessing the risk of that many potential chargebacks coming in the first month of Visa's new compliance rules.

09-30-2003, 12:49 PM	#19
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	hmmm,doesnt look good.

09-30-2003, 12:52 PM	#21
liquidmoe Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 4,994	The best post I have seen in this thread is to monitor dormant accounts, that seems like the best option to avoid these matters in the future. Sure everyone likes to collect funds but if a person hasnt logged in in months and when he has only logged in twice it may be a good idea to contact the moron, if only to prevent future CB and other bullshit.

09-30-2003, 12:56 PM	#22
pamphage Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 3,569	scarey stuff in this thread __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60. Let me repeat... A 120 x 60 button and no more that 3 lines of DEFAULT SIZE AND COLOR text.

09-30-2003, 12:58 PM	#25
jscott So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Taipei Posts: 25,198	dumbass shouldnt become members of sites without reading the billing rules, his stupid ass's loss "what a idiot", exactly

09-30-2003, 01:00 PM	#26
GigaChris Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: CA Posts: 1,383	wow this one's a tuff one to call __________________ __chris Operations Director www.gigacash.com icq# 154169968 Selling your biz? Selling premium domains? We buy. Contact me.

09-30-2003, 01:02 PM	#27
dnsmonster Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: A warm place. Posts: 634	I think you should pay the guy the money and consider it a dumbass tax, with you being a dumbass and not monitoring all accounts. __________________ I couldn't possibly know what I'm talking about, I'm completely, absolutely and definitively out of my fucking mind.

09-30-2003, 01:05 PM	#28
polish_aristocrat Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 40,377	I just wanted to post - refund him, since he will contact the media and they will report about bad pornographers scamming customers...but then I realised that he will rather not contact the press about it... __________________ I don't use ICQ anymore.

09-30-2003, 01:06 PM	#29
scoreman Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,491	If anyone is a dumbass its the cardholder who let the charges go for almost 2 years unnoticed. No offense meant Club Sexy, but at some point people need to be accountable for their finances. __________________

09-30-2003, 01:18 PM	#32
polish_aristocrat Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 40,377	polish_aristocrat's solution to this problem: Give him free access to your site for the next 22 months __________________ I don't use ICQ anymore.

09-30-2003, 01:18 PM	#33
~Ray visit hardlinks.org Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Las Vegas , Nv >>> [email protected] or icq 94994627 anytime Posts: 18,362	NetRodent, If he charges back 22 months and you can prove that HE signed up... take him to small claims court and you will win. He is responsible for the charges on HIS credit card...not you. The customer is NOT always right. ~Ray __________________ Adult Backlinks for Adult Websites - Testimonials Available

09-30-2003, 01:22 PM	#36
Thrawn$ Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mtl Posts: 4,596	Give him a 3Day free trial then convert it to 49.99 __________________ Tracking 202 \| Start Tracking PPC Campaigns Like A Pro

09-30-2003, 01:23 PM	#37
grogan So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: CHICAGO Posts: 2,284	Give me my fucking money back!!! My girls need booze!

09-30-2003, 01:24 PM	#38
WiredGuy Pounding Googlebot Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34,482	I thought CB's can go back as far as 6-9 months? 22 Months is absolutely ridiculous and quite honestly his fault for allowing the membership to recur month after month without looking into it, even if it was a fraudulent join. WG __________________ I play with Google.

09-30-2003, 01:33 PM	#42
Nima Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,192	that's some bullshit man. THe fucker should have checked his bill a little bit better. I could imagine him paying for a whole lot of other stuff that he didn't know about LOL

09-30-2003, 01:35 PM	#43
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	I wouldn't worry about it. Tell them that IBill as the merchant processor has already settled the matter and it's out of your hands. If they want the rest of their money, tell them to sue IBill. Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

09-30-2003, 01:35 PM	#44
AbeFroman Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 220	Give the guy his money you dirty pronograffer! You tricked him with your fine print you sob! If I were you I would close up shop and do something respectable! Looking to go mainstream? Check out our top affiliate program at Mainstream Mollah

09-30-2003, 01:48 PM	#50
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	Looks like AOL was billing customers who had canceled: http://crainsny.com/news.cms?newsId=6537 and double billing: http://kdka.com/local/local_story_252174955.html Unless there's something I'm missing, I don't see them in trouble for billing dormant accounts which hadn't been canceled by the customer.