The Meaning of Fraud (Calling out SilverCash)

[Eve]

I cannot see how this can be possible as I have committed no fraud. You will, however, be in a position to discuss this further as your company does still owe me money for services I contractually performed. We can discuss it amongst ourselves, or in a court. I would much prefer to resolve this amicably. You cannot accuse someone of fraud, and then claim to not be able to discuss this further. This is what is destroying this industry. How about if I were to accuse you of murder and say that we are not able to discuss it further and that you must bear the full penalty of your actions? Or, if by an effort you extended which I owed you money for, used the guise of fraud for not paying you for work perfofrmed? Now, please let's discuss this as I would like to understand the nature of your accusations. I have promoted SilverCash, as their bbw site converts well for me when I promote it. I would like to continue doing so.

Donald Talton

P.S. I will let the assumption that this correspondance will be read and dealt with accordingly will occur within the next 48 hours. If I have not received a response at that point, I will contact you once more. If you still fail to provide proof for your claim of fraud, I will have no choice but to seek litigation

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:26 AM
To: Donald Talton
Subject: Re: Silvercash technical questions


Your account has been deleted for fraud, unfortunately I cannot discuss this
further.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Talton" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:19 AM
Subject: Silvercash technical questions


> I have had 2 SC accounts. One was via RevShare, and another was my own.
Due
> to a hard disk failure, I have lost the login information for both these.
I
> will include my personal info below. Please send me the information. Let
me
> know if you need more verification than this.
>
>
> Donald Talton
>
> email addresses:
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> I believe one of the accounts was 531013.
>
>
>

[Sly_RJ]

ONE email is the reason for this thread? Come on.

[brand0n]

and you think posting this here is going to help in some way?

[Eve]

Originally posted by brand0n
and you think posting this here is going to help in some way?

Not at all. This board is here for us to demean each other on. But it is a public forum that may be of assistence if I am forced to pursue legal action. Hope that answers your question.

[scoreman]

And if you are frauding them, you want them to tell you how they discovered it and what were the specifics so you can refine your process? Look at it from their perspective.

[Digipimp]

It's the same with all sponsors they will terminate your account at any time and honestly there isn't much you can do about it legally even because the terms that you agree to are so broad and you agree that those terms can be changed at any moment by the sponsor. So with all that said just move on and if you got screwed that really sucks but it happens to people all the time and to make the mistake of thinking a sponsor or anyone cares about you is just crazy.

[SR]

If a sponsor thinks you fucked them they shouldproof this or pay the money and not come up with bullshit stories like "If we tell you this then you know what to watch out for the next time".

[JDog]

Is it against their terms to have 2 accounts? That could be a possibility!

jDoG

[Eve]

Originally posted by scoreman
And if you are frauding them, you want them to tell you how they discovered it and what were the specifics so you can refine your process? Look at it from their perspective.

That is an excellant point. I did not even think to consider that; my only explanation is that I do not think in those terms. Anyone accused of fraud, and having consequences of that accusation, has the right to know what they are accused of. I am not really looking for specifics, I just want justification of that claim. I did not defraud anyone, nor do I ever plan on defrauding anyone. I hold the view that while things of that nature may payoff overnight, the benefits reaped from REAL work payoff much better and much, much longer.

You have made me see their perspective, but that's not what concerns me. Look at it from my perspective. Have you ever been terminated under the accusations of fraud? Under accusations of fraud that are NOT founded or explained for that much? I have off and on actively promoted silvercash. I liked promoting silvercash, their conversions were nice when I did promote them, and they have very high-quality advertising material.

I think it is very odd that I received this email. I had just under the minimum payment sitting in my SC account. The only link even up for a SC site is on eveswish.com. I do not see how there can really be a question. But that's my view..

[Eve]

Originally posted by JDog
Is it against their terms to have 2 accounts? That could be a possibility!

jDoG

I thougth about this, but had communicated the situation with them. The terms of revshare hosting is a cut off the top of the sale. I do not use them, and have not in quite some time (although a very nice setup for new webmasters). If this is the case, they need to check their Sent folder for previous communications with me. Fortunately, the burden of proof lay on their side, not mine.

[NetRodent]

Originally posted by SR
If a sponsor thinks you fucked them they shouldproof this or pay the money and not come up with bullshit stories like "If we tell you this then you know what to watch out for the next time".

Gee whiz, just what this industry needs: smarter crooks. No sponsor in their right mind would tell you what fraud checks they have in place.

[The Truth Hurts]

you're going to go to court for what amounts to less than $100?

[Eve]

Originally posted by NetRodent


Gee whiz, just what this industry needs: smarter crooks. No sponsor in their right mind would tell you what fraud checks they have in place.

I am not looking for exact details, just where the hell they got the idea there was illegitimate stuff going on with my account. For all I know, a retarded spammer sent out a mailing and mis-typed his account number and used mine instead...that would be some shitty luck, eh?

[Eve]

Originally posted by The Truth Hurts
you're going to go to court for what amounts to less than $100?

I am counting on SilverCash to not let it come to that. Principally, yes, I will if necessary.

[Halcyon]

Originally posted by NetRodent


No sponsor in their right mind would tell you what fraud checks they have in place.

What he said.

[freeadultcontent]

Eventually someone will take a sponsor to court. It will happen, and it will effect lots of things.

For some people it is not about the money, it is about principles.

When this day does come, and if it is a principles issue, and the sponsor did not just pay the accused cheater what was owed then cancel them. A judge will rake the sponsor over a special set of coals. The "if we told you how we found out line... and are not going to pay you" excuse is even remotely brought to a court room, do expect to see some serious ownage.

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally posted by JDog
Is it against their terms to have 2 accounts? That could be a possibility!

jDoG

I don't think it is.
I also have two ( one for Revshare Hosting ).
I asked them few months ago if I can create a 2nd account for RSH and they allowed it

[Eve]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
Eventually someone will take a sponsor to court. It will happen, and it will effect lots of things.

For some people it is not about the money, it is about principles.

When this day does come, and if it is a principles issue, and the sponsor did not just pay the accused cheater what was owed then cancel them. A judge will rake the sponsor over a special set of coals. The "if we told you how we found out line... and are not going to pay you" excuse is even remotely brought to a court room, do expect to see some serious ownage.

You understood. That makes me glad. This is still America, and the government still acts as the enforcer of contracts. And just because a contract does exist does not mean it is legal, eg: a contract to sell children. But that aside, yes, at the very least the monies owed HAVE to be paid. Sponsors have the "fraud" excuse as a get out of jail free card, this is the only business I have ever seen this used in. It is NOT legal. It is only a matter of time before these things will be straightened out.

And yes, it is about the principles

[Lensman]

I'm sure they have a good reason. And I'm sure they can back it up publically.

Did you signup for a membership under your own ref code? We see that a lot, and it's definatly not cool.

[freeadultcontent]

Originally posted by Eve


You understood. That makes me glad. This is still America, and the government still acts as the enforcer of contracts. And just because a contract does exist does not mean it is legal, eg: a contract to sell children. But that aside, yes, at the very least the monies owed HAVE to be paid. Sponsors have the "fraud" excuse as a get out of jail free card, this is the only business I have ever seen this used in. It is NOT legal. It is only a matter of time before these things will be straightened out.

And yes, it is about the principles

Im not taking sides, by all accounts you could very well be a cheater or they could be at fault.

I do understand your thoughts, and I do know this is going to happen one day soon. I fear for that day, although it is needed.

[stocktrader23]

Every time this happens there are some of you idiots running around yelling how the sponsor can't tell you what you did or you can improve it. Guess what, if you were the one doing it you already know. That shit wouldn't hold up in court for a second.

[freeadultcontent]

Originally posted by Lensman
I'm sure they have a good reason. And I'm sure they can back it up publically.

Did you signup for a membership under your own ref code? We see that a lot, and it's definatly not cool.

Lensman do you at least agree that a sponsor should at least give a basic explanation when the suspend you? Not harsh details, just something along the lines of "spam complaints, possible card fraud, ect."?

[bawdy]

seems like if someone was seriously going to defraud a sponsor/s then they wouldnt care to find out why they got busted... they would just move on to the next sponsor or create new accounts or what not

for a sponsor to hide behind the argument that it will make better crooks is a load of crap....

[WiredGuy]

Originally posted by NetRodent
Gee whiz, just what this industry needs: smarter crooks. No sponsor in their right mind would tell you what fraud checks they have in place.

Exactly, the most you'll find out is something like spam or fraud. Don't expect details, sponsors don't want to reveal what info got you caught so you can try to get around it next time.

Best thing to do is to move on or try to settle it with SC directly.
WG

[freeadultcontent]

Originally posted by stocktrader23
Every time this happens there are some of you idiots running around yelling how the sponsor can't tell you what you did or you can improve it. Guess what, if you were the one doing it you already know. That shit wouldn't hold up in court for a second.

That is not always true. One sponsor cancelled me once. I raised holy hell on the phone. We both found out that some ass munch had stolen one of my galleries and left the codes in place. I was reinstated, but ceased to ever promote them again.

[Yo Adrian]

Eve,

We are under no obligation to discuss with you the details of how your account was flagged for fraud. This was mentioned in my email to you, posting it in a public forum will not change this.

You mention the 'burden of proof' lying on our side, however providing this proof will in fact be no burden as it is plainly obvious.

Threats of litigation will not reverse the status of your account, however if you feel this is an important action to mention in regards to your reputation as a webmaster feel free to email me and I will supply you with the name and number of our attorney.

[Oracle Porn]

Same shit happened to me with Wegcash....they suck...
Wegcash!

[Lensman]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent


Lensman do you at least agree that a sponsor should at least give a basic explanation when the suspend you? Not harsh details, just something along the lines of "spam complaints, possible card fraud, ect."?

Yes, if asked. 99% of fraud webmasters don't ask, because they know they are scammers.

A general explanation is usually what we will give, because we do not want to explain the details of our fraud detection methods, because they can program around that (duh).

[MetaMan]

when u make them to much money and u wont tell them or let them know about ur secrets sponsors love to flag you.

[Eric]

Thread locked at Eve's request.