**** CIA-owned Voting Machines Ensure Bush Victory in 2004 ****

[wonton]

Chris Floyd/Moscow Times

It's a shell game, with money, companies and corporate brands switching in a blur of buyouts and bogus fronts. It's a sinkhole, where mobbed-up operators, paid-off public servants, crazed Christian fascists, CIA shadow-jobbers, war-pimping arms dealers -- and presidential family members -- lie down together in the slime. It's a hacker's dream, with pork-funded, half-finished, secretly programmed computer systems installed without basic security standards by politically partisan private firms, and protected by law from public scrutiny. It's how the United States, the "world's greatest democracy," casts its votes. And it's why George W. Bush will almost certainly be the next president of the United States -- no matter what the people of the United States might want.

The American vote-count is controlled by three major corporate players -- Diebold, ES&S, and Sequoia -- with a fourth, Science Applications International Corporation, coming on strong. These companies -- all of them hardwired into the Bushist Party power grid -- have been given billions of dollars by the Bush Regime to complete a sweeping computerization of voting machines nationwide by the 2004 election. These glitch-riddled systems -- many using "touch-screen" technology that leaves no paper trail at all -- are almost laughably open to manipulation, according to corporate whistleblowers and computer scientists at Stanford, Johns Hopkins and other universities.



FOR REST OF ARTICLE - CLICK HERE

[wonton]

"The unelected Bush Regime now controls the government, the military, the judiciary -- and the machinery of democracy itself. Absent some unlikely great awakening by the co-opted dullards of the corporate media, next November the last shreds of a genuine American republic will disappear -- at the push of a button."

[candyflip]

Here's another article:

http://www.infernalpress.com/Columns/election.html

[eatapeach]

i haven't read this article yet but there has already been a lot written about the new voting machines and their ability to manipulate data without any means of verifying votes.

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."
--Russian Dictator Joseph Stalin

wow...

[stevecore]

[candyflip]

Originally posted by eatapeach
i haven't read this article yet but there has already been a lot written about the new voting machines and their ability to manipulate data without any means of verifying votes.

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."
--Russian Dictator Joseph Stalin

From the second link:

"It's not the voting that's democracy, it's the counting."
-- Tom Stoppard, 1972

[Gemini]

It still all comes down to the whim of a Governor, with a flick of his finger to the Electoral (ONLY counted votists) College people that actually DO the voting as to who gets the States vote. lol

Popular votes are nothing. Its the 10-20-30-40 ELECTORAL voters that vote the President in. That worked in 1800 when there was so much BS in votes, etc. But not today.

[Ross]

hmmm..... I dunno what to say

[TheSaint]

What is scary is that people in Moscow actually believe this sort of trash.

I have a good friend who is Russian, and he naturally thinks everthing is fixed. The Iraq war, for example, actually killed ten's of thousands of Americans. It was hidden from America by a massive conspiracy,

He grew up under Stalin, so I can excuse his ignorance.

How someone with a western education coud be so niave as to think U.S. elections are fixed under a huge slient conspiracy - that is truly scary, and indicates how poor the education system must be that it is possible to gradulate without some fundamental understanding of logic and reality.

[wonton]

Originally posted by Gemini
It still all comes down to the whim of a Governor, with a flick of his finger to the Electoral (ONLY counted votists) College people that actually DO the voting as to who gets the States vote. lol

Popular votes are nothing. Its the 10-20-30-40 ELECTORAL voters that vote the President in. That worked in 1800 when there was so much BS in votes, etc. But not today.

True and not true. Popular vote still counts to win over a state to either Republican or Democrat. The electoral college people go in and do their thing but rarely (maybe never as far as I know) do they switch their vote from that of the constituants. If the populace voted Democrat then they pledge democrat. Otherwise, conflict would be too obvious and there would be rioting in the streets.

So the popular vote still counts - unless one had the power to manipulate (i.e. miscount) that vote. In this latter case, democracy would be in name only. He who controls the count controls everything.

[NBDesign]

Why do only the good presidents get assinated?

[broke]

What color is the sky in your world?

[rossiya2]

Last I read the CIA was rather peeved at commander in chief. With computer ballots hackers may sway the vote.

[broke]

Originally posted by NBDesign
Why do only the good presidents get assinated?

Please don't tell me you are talking about JFK...

I think I'd vomit.

[wonton]

Originally posted by TheSaint
What is scary is that people in Moscow actually believe this sort of trash.

I have a good friend who is Russian, and he naturally thinks everthing is fixed. The Iraq war, for example, actually killed ten's of thousands of Americans. It was hidden from America by a massive conspiracy,

He grew up under Stalin, so I can excuse his ignorance.

How someone with a western education coud be so niave as to think U.S. elections are fixed under a huge slient conspiracy - that is truly scary, and indicates how poor the education system must be that it is possible to gradulate without some fundamental understanding of logic and reality.

It's not just the Moscow times that I (and many others) are basing this on. Even Greg Palast of the BBC has featured numerous articles as well as a highly rated TV documentary on American vote-fixing. The mass-fixing of votes in America is a new and developing phenomena. No one (that I know of) is claiming that American elections have been fixed for decades or centuries through vote manipulation. But certain aspects of the 2000 presidential election certainly were and, mark my words, the 2004 presidential election certainly will be.

[cluck]

I want the source to their voting system

[cluck]

BTW in high school I had a friend who worked in local government(county level). ALOT of vote fixing and the like goes on. He knew I was a leeto hax0r and he was always trying to get me to help the republicans fix elections, break into well known democrats computers, etc. Alot of well known and well respected republicans were willing to pay decent sums of money to people like me to secure a win.

[wonton]

Buy this book - by BBC journalist Greg Palast:







BUY THIS BOOK

[NBDesign]

Originally posted by broke


Please don't tell me you are talking about JFK...

I think I'd vomit.

Then vomit and choke on it

[rooster]

how come all whacko conspiracy theorists are always on the far left.

To listen to them, any politician on the left is an angel that would never do the slightest thign wrong. But anyone on the right is a devil and evil mastermind.

extreme bias = no credibility

[cluck]

Originally posted by rooster
how come all whacko conspiracy theorists are always on the far left.

To listen to them, any politician on the left is an angel that would never do the slightest thign wrong. But anyone on the right is a devil and evil mastermind.

extreme bias = no credibility

Oh the democrats do the same thing, just my "political connection" was republican, therefore they were the ones requesting I do the dirty work.

[wonton]

Originally posted by rooster
how come all whacko conspiracy theorists are always on the far left.

To listen to them, any politician on the left is an angel that would never do the slightest thign wrong. But anyone on the right is a devil and evil mastermind.

extreme bias = no credibility

Since when are "all conspiracy theorists on the far left"? Have you ever heard of the John Birch Society, Lyndon Larouche, Fletcher Prouty? Obviously not. Most so-called conspiracy theorists - those that insist a "shadow government" exists are actually on the FAR RIGHT, not the far left.

Even some libertartian-minded sitting Republicans like Ron Paul (TX) openly state in congress that such a shadow government exists and that the Republican party itself has been hijacked by NeoCons out to take over American Democracy.

Instead of justing saying anything off the top of your head, why don't you do a little more reading and educate yourself on the state of the world.

[theking]

Originally posted by wonton


It's not just the Moscow times that I (and many others) are basing this on. Even Greg Palast of the BBC has featured numerous articles as well as a highly rated TV documentary on American vote-fixing. The mass-fixing of votes in America is a new and developing phenomena. No one (that I know of) is claiming that American elections have been fixed for decades or centuries through vote manipulation. But certain aspects of the 2000 presidential election certainly were and, mark my words, the 2004 presidential election certainly will be.

If everything stated were to be correct...I guess that it is a good thing that a President can only be in office for two terms...and of course if a Democrat is elected for the next term (which may very well be the case since there are more Democrats than Republicans and because the vote was so close on the last election Democrats may turn out in greater numbers than the last time around)...it will prove that the article is BS...which is what I think the article is.

[wonton]

Originally posted by theking


If everything stated were to be correct...I guess that it is a good thing that a President can only be in office for two terms...and of course if a Democrat is elected for the next term (which may very well be the case since there are more Democrats than Republicans and because the vote was so close on the last election Democrats may turn out in greater numbers than the last time around)...it will prove that the article is BS...which is what I think the article is.

Unless the Democrat voted in is Leiberman, who is really a Republican NeoCon in disguise.

[NBDesign]

Originally posted by theking


If everything stated were to be correct...I guess that it is a good thing that a President can only be in office for two terms...

Yes, that is a very good thing.. However, look at the damage this man has done in the last 3 years in office... can you imagine what this country will be like in another 4 if he gets "re-elected" (not like he was elected to begin with)

[rooster]

life exisits outside of new york and la

[theking]

Originally posted by NBDesign


Yes, that is a very good thing.. However, look at the damage this man has done in the last 3 years in office... can you imagine what this country will be like in another 4 if he gets "re-elected" (not like he was elected to begin with)

Why do you say that the President was not elected...when of course he was.

[rooster]

because jesse jackson said he was disenfranchised, so it must be true.

[cluck]

Originally posted by theking


Why do you say that the President was not elected...when of course he was.

Not by popular vote at least, most people still don't accept that the electoral vote is weighted more.

[sperbonzo]

Originally posted by wonton
Buy this book - by BBC journalist Greg Palast:







BUY THIS BOOK

As anyone can easily tell by the cover art and the sub-title, this a thorughly objective work with no slant or agenda whatsoever. The Author's clear lack of predetermined bias or politcaly leanings make this reader completely reassured of the clean and accurate portrail of facts and evidence!

[NBDesign]

Originally posted by theking


Why do you say that the President was not elected...when of course he was.

Because too many votes were tossed aside in the same state that his brother is gov... Sorry, something seems a bit odd about that.. if it were anyother state.. maybe I could see that he barely won the election... but there were just too many votes discarded so Yes, I think it was rigged...

[Morgan]

It's rigged.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by sperbonzo



As anyone can easily tell by the cover art and the sub-title, this a thorughly objective work with no slant or agenda whatsoever. The Author's clear lack of predetermined bias or politcaly leanings make this reader completely reassured of the clean and accurate portrail of facts and evidence!

It's against the government, so of course it's full of fact.

[wonton]

Originally posted by sperbonzo



As anyone can easily tell by the cover art and the sub-title, this a thorughly objective work with no slant or agenda whatsoever. The Author's clear lack of predetermined bias or politcaly leanings make this reader completely reassured of the clean and accurate portrail of facts and evidence!

You sir, are a moron.

If you are actually so infantile as to literally judge a book by its cover, you have no place interacting with other human beings in anything that resembles a discussion.

Like many, you are probably zeroing in on the endorsement of Michael Moore at the bottom blurb. Michael Moore is a shithead as far as I'm concerned. But that does not mean that every book he reads and/or endorses is automatically along the same styles of his own writing or thinking.

[wonton]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

It's against the government, so of course it's full of fact.

Oh. I'm sorry. I did not realize that we are not permitted to question the government.

Why don't you put on your pair of jackboots and go goose-step in line with the other robots.

Moron.

[theking]

Originally posted by wonton


Unless the Democrat voted in is Leiberman, who is really a Republican NeoCon in disguise.

Neoconservative ? A "neocon" is more inclined than other conservatives toward vigorous government in the service of the goals of traditional morality and pro-business policies. Tends to favor a very strong foreign policy of America as well.

I am a NeoCon when it comes to "Tends to favor a very strong foreign policy of America as well."

I am all for maintaining a large military (I did not like the million man cut in our military over the past few years...thought it was the wrong thing to do...and it is now beginning to haunt us)...defense spending...R&D and a strong foreign policy. If it were not for our military power...the R&D...the expenditures involved and a strong foreign policy...there...at the least...would not be a Europe...for all of Europe would be a Soviet Satellite and very possibly the US as well.

[Greg B]

Originally posted by NBDesign
Why do only the good presidents get assinated?

That's because 'Good Guys' are too soft. Ya ever notice how the good die young but the evil just keep rooooolllling along?

I think humanity is a bit too masochistic as a whole. We love and admire the bad guys because they remind us of whom we really are on the inside.

Look at American lexicon. Our language is full of violent metaphors:

" I'm gonna make a killing at the stock market "

" The Giants pounded the Jets "

" I died laughing "

We're obsessed with violence. When you study other languages you'll be stunned to find how little violent slang and metaphors there are outside of historic or religious references.

[wonton]

Originally posted by theking


Neoconservative ? A "neocon" is more inclined than other conservatives toward vigorous government in the service of the goals of traditional morality and pro-business policies. Tends to favor a very strong foreign policy of America as well.

I am a NeoCon when it comes to "Tends to favor a very strong foreign policy of America as well."

That NeoCon "definition" is PR put out by the NeoCons themselves. That might be partially what they are about, at least on the surface. But at at deeper level they have a strong belief that the masses need to be absolutely controlled and American democracy itself dissolved into a dictatorship under the control of FOREIGN financial powers.

[pauliewalnutz]

oh how true that stuff I cant believe the repulbicans have lost elections in the last 20 years.

Too bad GB Sr. didnt control the voting machines like his son does. Another idiot post by another stupid idiot

[wonton]

Originally posted by Greg B


That's because 'Good Guys' are too soft. Ya ever notice how the good die young but the evil just keep rooooolllling along?

I think humanity is a bit too masochistic as a whole. We love and admire the bad guys because they remind us of whom we really are on the inside.

Look at American lexicon. Our language is full of violent metaphors:

" I'm gonna make a killing at the stock market "

" The Giants pounded the Jets "

" I died laughing "

We're obsessed with violence. When you study other languages you'll be stunned to find how little violent slang and metaphors there are outside of historic or religious references.

Very good observation. But it goes back even further than that in our collective cultural consciousness.

"Alexander the Great!"

Why is he great? Because he mass-murdered hundreds of thousands? Plundered the resources of other nations? Enslaved conquered people?

If you or I murdered an innocent person to steal their stuff, we would hardly be looked upon as "Great". But if we murdered a million and called it a "conquest" then we probably would be (as long as our side writes the history books).

Mankind is Insane.

Wonton is the only sane human on earth.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by wonton


Oh. I'm sorry. I did not realize that we are not permitted to question the government.

Did I say that?

[theking]

Originally posted by NBDesign
Because too many votes were tossed aside in the same state that his brother is gov... Sorry, something seems a bit odd about that.. if it were anyother state.. maybe I could see that he barely won the election... but there were just too many votes discarded so Yes, I think it was rigged...

The Supreme Court saw that Florida State Law was enforced...State Law that was on the books prior to the election. As for votes being tossed aside...there were multiple organizations that did recounts of the disputed counties and some of the organizations did a recount of the entire state. Every recount showed that the President won the popular vote in Florida. The President legitimately won the electoral vote...by a very, very small margin...that is the fact. If you want to blame someone then blame Nader as he pulled votes that would have otherwise gone to Gore.

[sperbonzo]

Originally posted by wonton


You sir, are a moron.

If you are actually so infantile as to literally judge a book by its cover, you have no place interacting with other human beings in anything that resembles a discussion.

Like many, you are probably zeroing in on the endorsement of Michael Moore at the bottom blurb. Michael Moore is a shithead as far as I'm concerned. But that does not mean that every book he reads and/or endorses is automatically along the same styles of his own writing or thinking.

It's such a shame that your life is so meanless that you are left with nothing but conspiracy theories in order to make yourself feel important and part of something bigger. I know this because I was once there.

I however, never felt the need to personally insult a stranger that I know absolutely nothing about, when he DARED to make a light-hearted joke during the course of a discussion.

Personal and unsubstantiated insult are the last resort of those how can't think of anything intelligent or witty to say.

I'm sorry for you sir. I wish you no harm, and I only hope that you grow up and out of this phase and enjoy your life someday.

Best of luck

[cluck]

Originally posted by theking


The Supreme Court saw that Florida State Law was enforced...State Law that was on the books prior to the election. As for votes being tossed aside...there were multiple organizations that did recounts of the disputed counties and some of the organizations did a recount of the entire state. Every recount showed that the President won the popular vote in Florida. The President legitimately won the electoral vote...by a very, very small margin...that is the fact. If you want to blame someone then blame Nader as he pulled votes that would have otherwise gone to Gore.

Fuck Nader. He would have been a much better president, but because of him we ended up with the worst candidate out of the bunch. If Al Sharpton ends up on the ballot he's just going to do the same thing to whoever the democrat candidate is(hopefully Clark).

[theking]

Originally posted by wonton



That NeoCon "definition" is PR put out by the NeoCons themselves. That might be partially what they are about, at least on the surface. But at at deeper level they have a strong belief that the masses need to be absolutely controlled and American democracy itself dissolved into a dictatorship under the control of FOREIGN financial powers.

If those words are yours...you are suffering with "monsters of the id".

[The Porn Dude]

Originally posted by sperbonzo



As anyone can easily tell by the cover art and the sub-title, this a thorughly objective work with no slant or agenda whatsoever. The Author's clear lack of predetermined bias or politcaly leanings make this reader completely reassured of the clean and accurate portrail of facts and evidence!

Actually it does. Because if you put it in print and it isn't accurate you are subject to being sued for libel. So in a way it does guarantee it.

[Greg B]

This coming presidential election is gonna be on a grand scale like this California recall.

It's gonna get NASTY. This coming election is gonna make 'Grand Theft Auto' look like a video game

I expect all kinds of insults and slurs and downright fist fights to break out. The balance of the future of humanity now rests on whomever is executive of the U.S.

Here's why: We're in the age where super weapons, breakthroughs in technologies may give us great lifespans, new energy, new goods and services. Whomever is in power can alter these to their liking. You need only look at the software and computer industries to see why. Guys who were 'geeks' in high school and college were now becoming gillionaires and getting more pussy than a loose dog in a cat factory.

Money attracts pussy. Pussy controls minds. Minds control money.

The never ending cycle. On this planet you're a pimp or you're being pimped. You determine which end you're on by your own lack of courage and determination. That's why I don't tolerate this pie in the sky bullshit. The highest government and religious institutions and academic institutions are nothing more than well disquised whorehouses and if you think otherwise you're a goddamned fool.

That's why this election is gonna be so harsh. That's why people are digging up more shit than a septic tank repairman with double overtime.

Welcome to Earth.

[NBDesign]

Originally posted by theking


The Supreme Court saw that Florida State Law was enforced...State Law that was on the books prior to the election. As for votes being tossed aside...there were multiple organizations that did recounts of the disputed counties and some of the organizations did a recount of the entire state. Every recount showed that the President won the popular vote in Florida. The President legitimately won the electoral vote...by a very, very small margin...that is the fact. If you want to blame someone then blame Nader as he pulled votes that would have otherwise gone to Gore.

I would blame anyone that tossed my vote out. People always say that their vote doesn't count anyway so why should I go vote... that was a prime example of why some people just don't bother.

If I am going to take the time out of my busy day to go wait in live to vote for someone.... I expect it to be counted. If the machine is not functioning properly and the hole did not punch the entire way through.. then that is not my problem... If you see that there is a mark there and none anywhere else on the ballot... you can plainly see who my choice was... Since these were hand counted... this would have been an easy assessment.

All I am saying is that they tossed out a lot of votes and as a voter I do not think that is right. I was not there, I did not count them, I do not know how mwnay for bush or gore got tossed... it just seems that the elections was very close and gore had it before all this went down...

and all in a state a bush has control over... that is my only point... it just seems very suspicious.

[sperbonzo]

Originally posted by The Porn Dude


Actually it does. Because if you put it in print and it isn't accurate you are subject to being sued for libel. So in a way it does guarantee it.

If you really buy that, then I have a long list of books for you to read that Wonton would INSIST are just right-wing propoganda and distortions of the truth. You seem to have a somewhat naive view of how this stuff works.