I am also from a working class background, and until relatively recently (when I have started making a bit of cash on porn) I worked in a steel factory to pay my way through University.

I remember the day when the Tampa crisis started, and I remember the guys at work saying it 'was about time'. Howard has played on this anti-immigration sentiment ever since, and in that time he has achieved a lot of contradictory things.

(I really should stop wrecking teenjump's thread though. This is the last political post in this thread from me) :)

Geez and I thought I was the only one here old enough to remember Arthur's little brush with fame in North Sydney.

Says a lot when the only thing people remember about you is that you got shot.

yeah.. I just hate seeing people be exploited and fall over themselves gagging for more. At some point I am going to start empathising more with howard than the people he is duping though.. there is only so much wilful personal degredation people can beg for before you can't feel sorry about the pain they are bringing on themselves..
it's like someone in a religion that doesn't believe in blood transfusions dying because he won't accept one. Stiff fucking shit.

great article you posted too btw.

weren't you asking for donations so you could go to school just a couple of days ago? and that you couldn't move out of you mom and dad's house?

ts ts ts
every tried to run your own biz...i know you have/do :Graucho

it's the businesses that have not been getting the breaks they deserve/need...chicken or the egg..if business does not prosper
it can not look after the workers !

it just dosn't work the other way around, i'd rather have
Homer Simpson as PM then any one from the Labour camp
my last :2 cents:

nah... im talking simon.. as in simon "I almost single handedly fucked up australia's only real chance of getting rid of howard merely by being my useless moribund lost cause self" crean.

I semi hold latham into account for that as well given his support of crean... but wishing a politician wouldn't look out for themselves is like pissing in the wind.

You know I wouldn't get steamed up about the way the Australian working class views the refo's.

The country has been there done that before. In the early 50's it was the Europeans displaced after the war and in the late 50's and early 60's it was the Italians.

Maybe time has smoothed over some of the wrinkles but I don't think that the Australian working class then was any more accepting of those ethnic groups than the current working class is of today's refugees.

Despite how we like to portray ourselves we really are a very intolerant bunch of pricks.

Im going to study there, im leaving in less that one moth.

It´s a great place if you wanna move do it.

When you said that you wish he'd get shot I thought you were harking back to Caldwell's run in with a would -be assassin.

I actually emailed our local labor member earlier this week and said it was about time they got rid of Crean and Latham woke up to the fact that whatever policies they had Labor would not get elected while Crean was leader.

I also suggested that the electorate had no clue about Labor's policies.

The reply made me feel rather sad for our member - he really is a decent bloke.

His reply just said "Please remember how much work I have put in to the electorate" - I think he already knows that he doesn't have much hope of being re-elected.

If you honestly think that labour (after the 70's) is really any different than the liberals then you need to do a little more reading. They're the same bloody party. The same businesses give the same donations to both parties depending on their likelyhood of getting elected. Labour is traditionally known as the lesser of two evils because they have slight concessions toward the working class and will try and make sure people aren't so poor they have to kill to feed themselves.

Do you know why the australian economy is doing so "well" at the moment?? in a large part it's the reforms introduced by the hawke and keating goverments. such as floating the dollar and whatnot.. the economic cycle is independant to the political cycle. the quality of the economy rarely has anything to do with who is in power unless there is substantitive and direct interference - such as keating's manipulation of interest rates, and howard's property bubble.

businesses don't get breaks??????????
bloody hell kevin. kerry packer paid tax on a 25k income the other year.

I legally get out of paying so much tax with my trust and company.
people need to keep worrying about immigration so they're too distracted to realise everyone else is getting ahead.

I voted against Howard at the gst election even though porportionately my income level fared better than most everyone elses with the tax cut sweeteners.

I bought 10k worth of shares last week too that im going to love only paying half capital gains tax on thanks to someone i voted against.

If you're aged 18-30 you can probably get a 1-year working holiday visa:

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/visiting_whm.htm

I've got to agree with Bhutocracy - a couple of years ago when I was working for a wage I paid income tax on every last cent I earned.

Marie on the other hand ran her own business - she legitimately paid tax on around 30% of her income.

When my daughter went to uni she was not entitled to Austudy - in the same year as her was the daughter of 2 doctors - guess who was entitled to Austudy?

Business has all the breaks in comparison to wage earners.

Kerry Packer the person? or the business ?? hope you see my point :Graucho do you know if he paid much more when labour was in power? donno but doubt it!!!

untill 3 years ago me and my wife had 48 staff !!!
so i do know what i'm talking about !
trust me businesses are not getting the brakes they should,
i'm not (just) talking about taxes!!

how's this for good labout law
someone steals from you, you fire them...they sue and win because you didn't give them 3 written warnings!

WTF

So you know, the working class is the main class that has to deal with mass immigration. Big business doesn't, nor do middle-class Australia, yet they are the ones who mostly support it.

The working class has to live amoung its effects, send their children to schools which represent it, and fight for jobs in a community which is flooded with it.

Been to Cabrammatta lately? Or How about Bankstown, Yagonna and any other station between there and Parramatta, and there and City and beyond.

Is it intolerant not to want to become a minority in your own nation? Not to be undercut by someone who is fresh off the boat? Perhaps you don't have to live with it, but there are millions of people who do - and the majority of them oppose it.

I read a quote some time ago, and I believe it sums up what is happening in our nation well. It reads;

"This elite that governs us, lives outside the rules they impose on us. All below them are equal. The elite lives outside the rules. They live in almost exclusively White communities and send their kids to mostly all-White schools. You could not find a French aristocrat who behaved with more contempt for the people than these multicultural liberals." -- Sam G. Dickson:

Call me a racist, I really don't give a fuck. But you know what I said is true, and I only hope that true democracy will one day hit our shores.

(sorry again for the political post, just feel the need to reply)

They are one in the same through a myriad of companies trusts and share ownerships.

misread: I've already said.. theres no real difference between labor and the liberals. especially when it comes to big business.

this is the crux of it. It's just that they don't realise the upperclass sees them as no different than aboriginals or immigrants. The reality of job and lifestyle competition with other working class ethnicities blinds them to the fact they're seen as white ******s themselves.

Odin - I stand by what I said - it's human nature - we are always intolerant of people who are different to the way we percieve ourselves.

It doesn't matter whether you live in Berala, Sefton, Auburn, South Hobart, Chigwell or Gagebrook - the intolerance is the same.

BTW - intolerance can even be found in country towns - I spent 20 years in various postings across country NSW - you won't believe the level of intolerance that sits just below the surface.

Bathurst is a prime example - there's them (the blow in public servants and new people to town) and us (the people who can trace their family back several generations in town)

There is not much cross-over between the two groups and in some country towns its much worse than that.

read my whole post, if this is just about personal taxes....fine you have a point, i wasn't talking about somones personal tax bakes !!!

how many millions maybe even billions in payroll tax do you
supose his company paid ? you think his company is paying any
GST....you bet!!!

again this is NOT about personal taxes which is the way you like to spin it.. imo
btw
do you really think it's so much different in other countries ??

the reality of the situation though is that we need immigration to keep growth up to feed the economy.. and that anyone of any colour is competition.. i don't care whether you're black asian or one of gothweb's purest white english inbreds, if you're not part of my family you're competition. personally i see it as useless to make the distinction bewteen race beyond this point. they all pay the same taxes that help pay for education and health and subsidies to big business and tax cuts to people in the highest income bracket.

Do you know how much corporate welfare there is? do you know how many multinational companies pay NO tax at all here? do you know corporate welfare is on par with social welfare in terms of dollars spent or not recieved?

if you're talking small business then yeah. Things like 3 strike rules for bad employees are a pain in the ass. But in tax terms.. man it's nothing compared to how hard employees get shafted if you know how to work the system.

anyway time for a :glugglug

bhutocracy maybe we should debate this over a beer next week!
and btw i respect your opinion and don't much care if you agree
with mine because we are living in the best country in the world
no matter which of the 2 parties win the next election
:winkwink:

small businesses can't be doing that bad - how's your s2000???? lol :)

for sure mate.. although im not on the goldy anymore.. back down near byron, we've moved the office, and the camgirl stuff is going offshore.
Anyways I'm just ranting because i can, and looking more and more like a psychopath so it's probably time ot hit the sack anyways.

it's goin great mate :glugglug how's the beemer ? :winkwink:

let me know if u have time next week....still got my mobile#?

if not hit me up on icq

Well, of course it is natural for a person to seek a sense of community, a sense of Nationalism, amoungst their own ethnicity or race. This should not, and can not, be considered intolerance though.

Maybe if we would make it easier for women to have children and still work we wouldn't need mass immigration?

Immigration has only become a necessity because politicians have not been motivated enough to build a suitable structure to deal with the demands of capitalism and the fact that females have entered the workforce.

I would rank Australia as one of the top 5 best countries to live in the world.

:thumbsup

Average thread turned great!

I thought I was the only guy who hated what Howard was doing to this country, but it seems not. What shits me is how I see my aging parents sit in front of their TV watching the news and commenting about how wonderful Howard is and how he is a stand up and honest man, and doing great things to protect this country from the evil people.

Shit ... I should be working. I had better not get started or it's gonna be a 'War and peace' sized rant.

I don't believe women should have kids and jump into work the moment the umbilical is cut. I think kids should have full time parents for their formative years. Or two part time parents. Either way it only adds up to one or one and a half jobs.
Fuck being like most of the north shore, dual income time poor parents that throw money at the problem instead of actually being there for their kids.. no wonder north shore kids are basically cashed up drug guinea pigs.

anyways why would I care any less if some bitch got a job I was after instead of an asian?

If you cant make it here
YOU ARE FUCKED anywherelse

If my partner earned the kind of money I did and we had a kid.. I would be a full time dad.

run, run while you still can.

There is community and then there is offering a better deal to other 'us' people than is offered to the 'them' people.

As I said, I've lived and worked in country centres throughout NSW - for years I've interacted on a daily basis with some of the roughest, toughest and most unpleasant and anti social elements in those towns. I've also done the same with the more genteel groups in town.

And what I have seen and experienced could only be described as intolerance.

I'm out of here - despite all that I've said I would never willingly live anywhere but Australia - its a bloody great country :)

It is ideal, and I think it should be promoted, but there should also be allowance for those families that need to work two jobs.

There is of course people from Asia to America who can be considered intolerant, but for the most part I don't think that is the case in Australia.

From my experience it is anger. Anger at what is happening to their part of Australia, and the fact that nothing is being done about it. When Howard stopped the Tampa, some of steam was let out, nevertheless the situation STILL has not changed.

I like Australia too, however I am not sure if I like what is becomming.

(Anyway, I've got some work to do :))

Yep ... Australia is the greatest place to live! Even though our government borders on being criminally inept, policy makers are usually pulcked from a pool of institutionalised sheep herders, the australian public is as easily led as a starving bushpig to a beef stew, and there is more corruption in the country than there was in the "Comittee For Natural Resource Alternatives" headed by the CEO of BP and Shell......

Still a great place to live.

Funny thing is if you know how to get around all the attempts to limit your freedoms (especially online) you end up having more freedom :)

Mind if I ask your viewpoint on aboriginals?

Or do you not realise that it was yours and my ancestors that came and fucked up their wonderful country?

(correct me if you actually are aboriginal, your nick and HH thread the other day doesn't give me the impression that you are)

Fix your sig mate.. not linked right...

Hey guys.. very cool thread.. got some great viewpoints.. I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying :thumbsup

Thanks Andy all fixed :thumbsup

This is a great thread but what gets me pissed off is when I see politicians spending millions on non essential art galleries when the tax payers have to wait years for surgery or dental work.