Keep the Gov't and Feds off your back

[FightThisPatent]

Sorry for the cross posting of this, but it deserved its own thread for comments by webmasters:



http://www.avnonline.com/issues/200..._081303_1.shtml

Bush Administration is asking the Supreme Court to reinstate the Child Online Protection Act, meant to punish adult and other "inappropriate" Website operators .......




They're baaaaaaaaaaaaack.. yes, the sequel to COPA is returning, now that they got the lid shut on Terrorism (ya right).

I think the solution for stopping Congress from passing laws and the Feds from enforcing the law, is to remove graphic images from your home page, make sure that search engines don't allow side door entrances into your site, and stop the graphic spam.


Most webmasters won't like this idea because:

1) they feel the front splash screen gets people's attention to look further

2) search engines index their open page areas and help to draw traffic in

3) spam must be working since there is so much of it, and like point #1, if the email images look enticing, someone will click.


Times are changing, and if this industry as a whole doesn't work within itself to make some changes, then the guys up on the Hill will...


what do you think? would you make these changes?

[BRISK]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent
would you make these changes?

No, I'll host in Canada.

[DJRCyberAVS]

What was wrong with the original post

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=163837

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by BRISK


No, I'll host in Canada.

ah, true, canada's laws may be a bit more lax... but, if COPA gets passed, Canada may make their changes, especially if the media makes canada look like a harbor for porn.

The ostrich's head in the sand approach won't work for too long.

To fend off a quick retort, yes, you could host in some other off-shore ISP or country where you won't be busted, but, if you are a company based in the US, then they can bust you. You would need to not live in the US, have no money or assets in the US, and hosted your server in a country that is very loose on its laws, then you would be safe.


i would think a majority of the webmasters are in the US.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by DJRCyberAVS
What was wrong with the original post

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=163837

i felt that i wanted to start a new thread that was specific to the topic of keeping government and feds off of webmaster's back.

Stopping kids from seeing porn is a slightly different issue, much more abstract, where personal liability hits much closer to home.

[BRISK]

IMO, the #1 thing COPA threatens is US based adult hosting companies.

[Trixie]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent
Sorry for the cross posting of this, but it deserved its own thread for comments by webmasters:



http://www.avnonline.com/issues/200..._081303_1.shtml

Bush Administration is asking the Supreme Court to reinstate the Child Online Protection Act, meant to punish adult and other "inappropriate" Website operators .......




They're baaaaaaaaaaaaack.. yes, the sequel to COPA is returning, now that they got the lid shut on Terrorism (ya right).

I think the solution for stopping Congress from passing laws and the Feds from enforcing the law, is to remove graphic images from your home page, make sure that search engines don't allow side door entrances into your site, and stop the graphic spam.

what do you think? would you make these changes?

I think the solution is to remind the gov't about the first amendment and let them know that we won't tolerate them fucking with it.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by BRISK
IMO, the #1 thing COPA threatens is US based adult hosting companies.

i agree, but it can be more far reaching.

If you own any assets in the US, they could be seized if they found a connection between you and the "obscenity" that they would bust you on.

Granted, if you are out of the country, they can't get to you (directly), but if you have assets in the US, they could take them away from you.

COPA has the right heart to protect children, but the wrong methods to do it.

[BRISK]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

i agree, but it can be more far reaching.

If you own any assets in the US, they could be seized if they found a connection between you and the "obscenity" that they would bust you on.

Granted, if you are out of the country, they can't get to you (directly), but if you have assets in the US, they could take them away from you.

COPA has the right heart to protect children, but the wrong methods to do it.

I don't have assets in the US

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by BRISK


I don't have assets in the US

For those not as fortunate as Brisk on having any US assets, how do you feel about making your own voluntary changes to your websites in leau of having laws passed to not only make you do it, but maybe with tougher measures?

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by Trixie


I think the solution is to remind the gov't about the first amendment and let them know that we won't tolerate them fucking with it.

Who is going to remind the gov't?????? Webmasters aren't even responding to this thread on ideas to do self-regulation.

Free Speech Coalition lobbies congress. Their efforts are funded by their membership, so they can be active in defending the Adult Industry. But how many webmasters are actually members?

You have organizations like FSC looking after the Adult Industry to protect your rights to run your business, you have ASACP as an organization to try and stop CP sites (as a representative of the adult industry), and how many of you actually support these insider organizations?

If you don't like the situation, then do something to change it.

Suport some group that represents your beliefs.

If you do 0% effort and contribute $0, you got nothing left but the O in dildo.

[MarcoTC]

come on over guys, plenty of room over here in Europe.

[goBigtime]

For the record... "FightThisPatent" is ASCAP_??? right?
(forgot the original nick)

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by goBigtime
For the record... "FightThisPatent" is ASCAP_??? right?
(forgot the original nick)

yes, i used to post under ASACP_CTO and changed to FightThisPatent, since my posts were my personal viewpoints and not connected with ASACP's position on the issues.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by MarcoTC
come on over guys, plenty of room over here in Europe.

i am sure the EU will be imposing similar legislation as our Congress on obscenity. Last thing Europe wants to be known for is a haven for "obscenity" where all the adult sites move to, to avoid US laws.

I concede that Europe is certainly more advanced in terms of cultural acceptance of sexuality.

[BRISK]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent



i am sure the EU will be imposing similar legislation as our Congress on obscenity. Last thing Europe wants to be known for is a haven for "obscenity" where all the adult sites move to, to avoid US laws.

I concede that Europe is certainly more advanced in terms of cultural acceptance of sexuality.

COPA isn't really about obscenity. It's about protecting kids from all sexual content, whether it's obscene or not.

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by Trixie


I think the solution is to remind the gov't about the first amendment and let them know that we won't tolerate them fucking with it.

Come election time remind surfers when they vote, what the people who are standing what to do with their entertainment.

The whole thing is brought on by the religious right who can get thousands out to vote. How many can we get out to vote?

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by BRISK


COPA isn't really about obscenity. It's about protecting kids from all sexual content, whether it's obscene or not.

http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/ACLU_...ss.letter.html


The letter is dated back in 1998, but holds relevance, since COPA is being revisited.

COPA *IS* about obscenity, written in language that targets the protection for Children.

How do you think they are going to protect kids from seeing sexual content? They are going to start pressing hard on websites they deem as "obscene" and have them shut down.

So if no bad pics to be seen on the web (US-based web servers), then they accomplished what COPA was designed to do, prevents kids from seeing the bad stuff.


The holes in the plan are obviously websites that are based outside the US. So while the gov't cracks down on US-based companies, it doesn't really "stop" kids from seeing adult content, because most of the aggressivly marketed adult sites are usually overseas anyways.

So i can understand people's comments that this is all so US-based.. YES IT IS.. and if you live in the US, you have something to worry about.

The suggestions that i proposed at the top of this thread are ways to either slow-down, or help back off US-based pressures for adult webmasters in the US.

Even doing the voluntary changes as suggested above, won't completely prevent kids from seeing the "bad" stuff, but if webmasters did these measures, it would certainly help a WHOLE LOT, and I believe would actually take some of the fire and fuel away from congress and DOJ to put the smackdown on adult websites.

I think the first wave of federal action will be the crackdown on sites that don't have their 2257 disclaimers, and even more importantly, don't have their 2257 papers.

Secondly, they will target websites that have "obscene" front/home/splash pages...possibly extending beyond the first hit page, to free tours, etc..

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by charly
Come election time remind surfers when they vote, what the people who are standing what to do with their entertainment.

The whole thing is brought on by the religious right who can get thousands out to vote. How many can we get out to vote?

How can we get people to even post their comments on this topic, while sitting down at the comforts of their own home, let alone getting out of their chair, driving down to the voting booth, and stand in line to vote?!?!?!?

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by charly
Come election time remind surfers when they vote, what the people who are standing what to do with their entertainment.

The whole thing is brought on by the religious right who can get thousands out to vote. How many can we get out to vote?

ap·a·thy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (p-th)
n.
Lack of interest or concern, especially regarding matters of general importance or appeal; indifference.
Lack of emotion or feeling; impassiveness.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Latin apatha, from Greek apatheia, from apaths, without feeling : a-, without; see a-1 + pathos, feeling; see kwent(h)- in Indo-European Roots.]

[BRISK]

The US government has no definition of what is and what isn't obscene therefore COPA isn't about obscenity, it's about all sexual content whether it is obscene or not.

The US government does not decide what is obscene, citizens do.

[NBDesign]

Seems like the US govt. would love sex since they Fuck us up the Ass on a daily basis.

the US Govt.

and another thing... where are these fucking parents? It is up to the parents to keep our sites away from their children... not the Govt. Fuck these irresponsible fuck wads... there is nothing wrong with the human body or the act of sex... but half these fucking morons would rather their children watch Rambo or some other stupid show with violence galore.... there is something seriously wrong with people these days...

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by BRISK
The US government has no definition of what is and what isn't obscene therefore COPA isn't about obscenity, it's about all sexual content whether it is obscene or not.

The US government does not decide what is obscene, citizens do.

I'm sorry, i just had to laugh at your comments, maybe you don't watch/get the US news like what we see......

The FBI and Ashhahahahaha are cracking down on "obscenity"... have you not read the boards? have you not read the articles? have you not seen the press statements by Ashhahahahaha?

Porn is the next hot target....easy pickings for the president in his move to get re-elected... and why is that? Because webmasters and those supporting our freedoms don't vote and don't get involved.

Since you are not in US, you can't make a difference, but for the rest of us that live here, apathy in voting and apathy in activism leads to the complacency of having to take what cards are dealt, and if the dealer is a very conservative one that doesn't like Porn, then be prepared to fold.

We don't even pay attention to the language of the Homeland Security Act. If you do read it, you will be shocked at the power and authority the government has to detain someone, EVEN IF YOU DON'T LOOK LIKE SOMEONE FROM THE MIDDLE EAST.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by NBDesign

.. where are these fucking parents? It is up to the parents to keep our sites away from their children... not the Govt.

i agree... parents should be responsible, but so many don't have the time, technical knowledge, or caring to monitor what their kids do, so when that happens, government steps (ie. welfare, social programs, etc).

So these parents are telling the government to help then monitor things for them, how else are the Congressional representatives getting this info? personal agenda? some may have, but it's all backed by their voters.

I think the answer lies with webmasters doing their VOLUNTARY part to clean up their websites and for private companies that develop web-filtering software to give parents the tools to monitor/prevent their kids from seeing the bad stuff.

(strict) Laws aren't tools...they don't stop kids from seeing the "bad" stuff, they only aim to put people in jail and shutdown businesses.

This is not an effective way to operate the business enterprise, but it's one that Congress feels will atleast do something.

And that is the major point, they are atleast DOING something they feel is atleast a small step forward.

This industry needs to do it's own effort of DOING something, or be told WHAT to be doing.

This isn't a conspiracy theory or an alarmist reaction, it's already started with Ashhahahahaha and the re-examining of COPA.. which i refered to as being the sequel, because i am sure they will tack on more things.

[DJRCyberAVS]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent



http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/ACLU_...ss.letter.html


The letter is dated back in 1998, but holds relevance, since COPA is being revisited.

COPA *IS* about obscenity, written in language that targets the protection for Children.

No it's about children... hence it's called the Child Online Protection Act.... and try reading the official site http://www.copacommission.org/

"Q: What is COPA?

A: The Child Online Protection Act, known as COPA, was passed October 23, 1998 as part of an omnibus budget bill and was signed into law by President Clinton. The purpose of the Act is to prohibit online sites from knowingly making available to minors material that is "harmful to minors" (sexually explicit material meeting definitions set forth in the Act). Commercial providers of "harmful to minors" material may defend themselves against prosecution by restricting the access of minors to such material.

If this law were enforced, violators would be subject to fines of up to $50,000 per offense, prison terms of six months, or both. This law also created a temporary Commission to study various technological tools and methods for protecting minors from "material that is harmful to minors"

It never mentions obscenity, it's totally different subject.

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

The FBI and Ashhahahahaha are cracking down on "obscenity"... have you not read the boards? have you not read the articles? have you not seen the press statements by Ashhahahahaha?

Show me a site that you mention in your 'articles' and 'posts' that has been recently prosecutued which has not had rape, pissing, snuff, beastiality, torture or CP.... simulated or not or has not broken the law on a local level? I'm not disagreeing with you that they are not going to be more active, but most of the board posting has been drama.

BTW... Your posting style is very similar to SexEd's.

[plsureking]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent



i am sure the EU will be imposing similar legislation as our Congress on obscenity. Last thing Europe wants to be known for is a haven for "obscenity" where all the adult sites move to, to avoid US laws.

I concede that Europe is certainly more advanced in terms of cultural acceptance of sexuality.

it'll never happen. obscenity laws are based on what the local community deems as obscene. nudity is widespread and very normal in europe. its no big deal over there. even on the beaches (which i particularly enjoyed). that's why our sites are based in europe.

as far as the aclu says, you can only be charged with obscenity if you are forcing your nudity on someone for a prolonged period of time and they are unable to avoid it. The other way is if your obscenity, also known as free speech, incites immediate harm to someone, like telling your members to go out and rape someone - and they actually do (you can say what you want of course, its the acction you get in trouble for).

its free speech people. if this pathetic addministration nabs you for it, call the aclu. they are always ready for a battle and their policy is to defend anyone who's freedom of speech is being denied.

for a great resource, read 'defending pornography' by nadine strossen, the prez of the aclu...

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by DJRCyberAVS


Show me a site that you mention in your 'articles' and 'posts' that has been recently prosecutued which has not had rape, pissing, snuff, beastiality, torture or CP.... simulated or not or has not broken the law on a local level? I'm not disagreeing with you that they are not going to be more active, but most of the board posting has been drama.

BTW... Your posting style is very similar to SexEd's.

i probably could not find one now.... you missed my point, i am not trying to be chicken little and say the sky is falling... i am pointing out that recent statements by Ashhahahahaha and the re-opening of COPA has focused DOJ to pick on the adult industry, and they are looking at things from an OBSCENITY issue, which does include protecting children.

I believe it is coming.. so you can be reactive or proactive, it's your choice.. you run the adult websites and you have to deal with the liabilities.

Here i am trying to give opinions and observations as to what i think is coming and what can be done to help offset it, and the end result, is that my postings are interpreted as being 'drama'.

[plsureking]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent


i am pointing out that recent statements by Ashhahahahaha and the re-opening of COPA has focused DOJ to pick on the adult industry, and they are looking at things from an OBSCENITY issue, which does include protecting children.

i wouldn't worry too much. if they proscecute anyone they'll be going for the biggest dogs to make the biggest point they can. arresting some tgp owner wouldn't make the news. the big guys have great lawyers. the little guys have the aclu. don't worry, be horny!

this is still fuckin America (i think) although we have commie leaders at the moment... One more year til we boot the bastards!!!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by plsureking


i wouldn't worry too much. if they proscecute anyone they'll be going for the biggest dogs to make the biggest point they can. arresting some tgp owner wouldn't make the news.

ANY adult website that gets busted, size doesn't matter, will get publicity.

Mainstream doesn't know the difference between a mom and pop website and one runned by a large entity.

To conservatives, porn is porn, and any "victory" that can be scored against the adult industry will be publicized.

It's so funny that people like Acacia and mainstream think that the billions of dollars that they hear that is made in the adult industry fail to understand that that the big number is made up mostly of non-internet-based adult businesses.

The big dollars all come from buying of videos and products from adult stores, adult clubs (strip), etc.. all brick and mortar type businesses. Internet-based revenue is such a smaller percentage... so people like Acacia in thinking that attacking webmasters is the pot of gold is misdirected and misinformed.

And on that note, please get informed about the Acacia issues and visit my website. I am making no money off this website or this effort, I am very concerned about the issues, enough to get out of the comfort of my own chair, put alot of effort in this, and open myself up as a target by ignorant posters.

[Greg B]

Well, #1 don't expect the industry to rally and do jack squat. They'll sit on their asses and run to other countries.

Just where they want em'.

This so called 'crackdown' is bullshit to force porn to be produced OUTSIDE of the U.S. where constitutional protections don't exist. That gives the powers that be the opportunity to further harass webmasters and their customers.

I'ld bet a fat rat's ass that soon if not already most foreign porn sites are or will be run by government gangsters who'll be getting fed fat paychecks from U.S. customers. The U.S. customer's security will be compromised for marketing purposes and their personal information used for extortion.

Already 90% of our telecommunications is owned and operated by one foreign company from an 'ally' nation and our customer support centers outsourced to foreign countries.

When the administration brings in the gangsters and dope dealers I'll be impressed.

[BRISK]

Obscenity is one of the most difficult things to successfully prosecute in the US. Unless you're producing/distributing some fairly extreme stuff, the chances of you being charged with obscenity are slim.

From the Department of Justice website:

Because there are many state statutes that prohibit obscenity and obscenity is determined by local community standards, our focus is upon major producers and interstate distributors of obscenity. Prosecution priority is given to cases involving large-scale distributors who realize substantial income from multistate operations and cases in which there is evidence of organized crime involvement.

[FightThisPatent]

Penthouse files for BK. Guess the adult industry isn't as profitable as mainstream keeps thinking.. it's a biz like any other biz, that has expenses and costs.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030812/media_penthouse_3.html

[BRISK]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent
Penthouse files for BK. Guess the adult industry isn't as profitable as mainstream keeps thinking.. it's a biz like any other biz, that has expenses and costs.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030812/media_penthouse_3.html

The adult industry is plenty profitable. Penthouse just mismanaged its business.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by BRISK


The adult industry is plenty profitable. Penthouse just mismanaged its business.

you missed my point,.... i never said the adult industry isn't profitable, it is that the online/internet websites aren't the ones making the bulk for the billions of dollars that peope keep throwig around.

[har har]