Well then whats your solution? If it comes down to living in a police state or having a group of people deported that werent even born here to begin with you would choose a police state?

And by the way, racism against Arabs could not be any worse than it is now.

I used to trust the government, even Republicans. I knew some shenannigans would go on, but used to argue "that can't be happening, the government wouldn't go that far". Now, I don't feel that way at all. I honestly see the Republicans as fascists. They are controlled by extremists, they are undermining basic freedoms, and they lie to the public.

man I really wish people would wake up from their day dreams and see WTF is happing in this country... I think "the terriost have won" (C.S. lovers) I mean WTF how many more rights will be lost under this current admin... I'm going to have to move soon..

1.) You're still talking about a police state. It's just a different group getting the brunt of it.

2.) You can't legislate how people feel. However, just because people feel something wrong doesn't mean there should be laws to *do* something based on that hatred.

I pity you.

:1orglaugh

agreed, but what are the other alternitaves. now don't get me wrong, i am against the patriot act, always have been always will be. but allow to play devil's advocate for a second. if these laws are lifted will terrorists be able to function efficeiently, and what other solutions are there.

it's like a crusade. a battle between two polarly opposed groups of religious fundamentalists.

There's a false leap of login in your response to me. I am saying this thing is wrong. You are saying that I can't say that unless I give an alternative statement. That's nonsense.

I will say it again: No solution that goes too far is acceptable. I will add this: These laws are taking away more freedoms, harming us more, than the so-called enemies.

I think that new laws might have helped. But I also think we could have improved what we were doing already, and had some effect. If people feel the need to make changes, to do a better job, I can support that. But not when those changed undermine or take away basic freedoms.

I don't pretend to have the answers. It is possible to recognize evil, without having confidence in an alternative. Doing what we were doing before would have been better than what we did. So why commit an act of evil? It's even more ridiculous when you realize that they could have put their intellect, money, and effort into solutions that weren't evil.

I think the net and porn industry on the net do need more policing than there is. If I had a child, I wouldn't want them surfing TGPs as easily as they could. Nothing against TGPs, but they do make porn much more accessible than sites that require adults to become members.

I can adapt... I look forward to weeding out a bunch of the idiots in this industry, that make things worse for everyone. A lot of people are only concerned with making a fast buck and aren't thinking ahead to the future. If selling porn, ever becomes completely illegal or too difficult, I guess I will have to move on to the next money maker online. I've learned not to keep all my eggs in one basket.

Like I have said before, the major credit card companies are making things worse for porn than the Bush administration could ever hope to do.

without a totalitarian state, you can't protect the population 100%

instability is just part of life. a lot of the problem is that america though it was 'untouchable'. yet it was quite happy to start wars all over the world, if none of them would come back to home soil

well they did.

of course the usa can do what the fuck it likes within it's borders. if people don't like it they will leave. those who stay behind have to suffer the consequences.

pretty soon the US will wear itself out just like the USSR did. very soon

Okay, then I ask again what is your solution?

If you leave your doors unlocked in your house and someone comes in and robs you do you:

A: Start locking your house
or
B: Place the members in your house under surveillance

Leaving isn't the answer. It is a democracy. Anyone who leaves because they don't like it is a coward, and worse. The only solution is to excercise your right to representation, and if necessary run for office yourself, until you are able to make a difference. Anyone who leaves for political reasons, without seriously trying to make a difference, has no principles.

You lock your house. But you don't install a lock that only opens for white people, or electrocutes anyone who steps near your house, or randomly shoots poison darts into the street. There's a limit.

rubbish

it's just a country, you can move elsewhere

don't think you can make a difference. if you want to enjoy your life, just get on with it in a country where the government lets you get on with it.

much more fun to watch it implode from a distance.

with globalization, jobs are going all over the world. why shouldn't you follow them?

I sense an angry English man here...

:eek7

i don't think so. your pathetic rants are nothing more than idiotic dribble written to elicit a response. there are so many ways to protect people, it's just the current government. if there was a democratic canidate in office things would be very different.

from a conventional standpoint the united states is primarily untouchable. the only time groups have been able to stage any kind of strike is through subversive tactics based on cowardice. terrorism is nothing more than a pathetic plea for attention. religious fundamentalists take weak minded weak willed fools. fill them with trash rhetoric that has been perversely distorted from any sense of spirituality except for the sake of brain washing.

there's your response. :321GFY

I stand by what I said. What you said here argues my point far better than it argues yours. Giving up on your country, rather than working to change it, is an act of weakness. If you care about politics, rather than just being selfish, leaving it behind doesn't change anything.

Yep, very true. And whats ironic about it all is how the US is heading towards what the USSR used to be and Russia is heading towards what we used to be.

Whoever it is, he/she doesn't spell words the English way. :)

(Can anyone spot the key words?)

Nope he's Australian.

I should know. I am too.

The Patriot Act can be removed, but so what? Act II will be rolled out and sold as a necessity to maintain this country "at all costs". This is merely legislative window dressing <A HREF="http://www.seebo.net/execorders.html" target="_blank">on schemes that have been a long time in the making</A>.

Welcome to the fiatification of the USofA. Love it or leave it, while you still can do either.

<a href=http://www.epitonic.com/files/reg/songs/mp3/Rye_Coalition-Communication_Breakdance.mp3>Rye Coalition - Communication Breakdance</a>

:glugglug

riiight

it's this whole concept of "giving up your country"

do you not understand the concept of moving country?

Cubans move to the US all the time to escape what they consider a bad life. Yet they still consider themselves Cuban. Perhaps they'll return when the political climate has changed.

make sense?

Correct...you do not have the answers...but you expect Congress to come up with answers...that will protect the US population from terrorists...but at the same time that please you and only you. You do not care if it pleases the majority of the population...only that it please you.

If the Congress did nothing...you would not be happy...what Congress did you are not happy with...if Congress adds to or modifies the Patriot Act you will not be happy. If Congress discards the Patriot Act and we are attacked again you will not be happy.

On TV a few days ago...a poll showed...that 21% of those polled thought the Patriot Act did not go far enough...22% thought that the Patriot Act went to far...48% were OK with the Patriot Act.

You are free to write your Congressman and tell him that you want the Patriot Act re-written to your specifications...oh I forgot...you can't...because you do not have the answers.

beacuse cubans have no chance of change until there is
a.) a successful coup
b.) castro dies

americans have hope for change. our entire country is based on it. if you don't like the way this country is run, don't leave, speak up and make a difference. that's the beatiful thing about america.

I have moved country before. I have lived in the UK for the last four years. However, I didn't leave because I could not stand the politics in the US, I moved because I wanted to spend some time in the UK. I like it here. What I am saying is that moving as a political protest, or because you can't stand the politics, is a ridiculous and cowardly act in a Democracy.

The situation in Cuba is different. It's a soviet-style dictatorship.

incorrect, but who cares

I agree, but there isn't, and I can see this administration doing *anything* to stay in power

I hope for your sake I'm wrong

I don't believe democrats are capable of fighting quite that dirty

the USA being untouchable is mostly due to geographical luck

or do you take credit for that?

and calling terrorism a 'cry for attention' is a tad simplistic doncha think?

for whatever reason, they think they're right

the US thinks it's right to bomb the crap out of iraq, even though many people (those with brains) can't understand why

anyway, who gives a fuck

if you think the US has a positive future, I laugh in your general direction

I'll have to disagree with that. If you were gay and living in Iran, would you consider it cowardice to leave the country?
Self-sacrifice can not be considered a moral imperative, that's why it is considered noble.

Are you honestly saying that there could be no solution to the problems the US faces that don't resort to totalitarian betrayals of the rights we have been guaranteed?

I disagree with that estimation. And if it came to that, I think it would be better to risk further attacks, than to become the kind of country we should be so opposed to.

As for disagreeing with the majority, it's a right in an democracy. The majority is often uninformed, especially when their government is lying to them. Part of democracy is the right to share your ideas, to bring others over to your way of thinking. And even if it wasn't about that, I still have the right to hold and defend a minority opinion.

the USA has very deep idiological divisions - would you agree?

can you see those divisions getting narrower or wider?

what hope is there for the US without finding some middle ground - something the republicans (at least) since incapable of doing?

or is civil war the answer?

While the most of us don't have to worry about the Feds. We DO have to sweat the interpretation of the LOCAL authorities in the use of these laws. Hopefully most of you grasp the concept that that they can look into or thru your house etc etc etc. The locals could really bend the rules to fit just about anything.Bottom line is, this just isn't a Federal thing but ALL so called 'enforcement' law.

I am sorry that I didn't make it more clear, initially, that I was talking about Democracy, and only about Democracy.

well, I guess you consider your country worth fighting for, and that's your perogative

I guess it depends how you want to spend your life

seriously though - how much difference do you think you can make, just 'lil old you?

Anyone that compares 21st century America to Russia is completely out of their fuckin mind :1orglaugh

You think the US is headed that way? Tell that to a mob of trailer park people, gang of thugs in the ghetto and people living in cushy homes on Park Ave and in Beverly Hills. I'm sure the general consensus will be ":eek7 Put the crack pipe down buddy!"

America has it's weaknesses, like any other nation... but it's people, rich and poor, would never stand for it's demise. We're still talking about a wealthy, charitable and humane country, that still fights for other countries' freedom and well being, not a repressed nation of impoverished and uneducated people that do not know any better.

I think that if I have not tried, I have no right to complain. And I think trying means more than voting more than every four years. I am willing to accept that the threshold is different for each of us, but I don't respect the idea of moving without whatever you personally feel constitutes a serious and sustained effort to make change.

Technically, Iran is a democracy. They have elections and all that. The elected government even has some influence.
If the majority of the people there would consistently vote for liberal leaders, Iran would probably slowly change.

That pretty much sums it up. Republicans have learned quite well how to manipulate the masses through lies and media control and will not be happy until the Democratic party no longer exists.
They are a bigger threat to democracy than a terrorist could ever dream.

Ah well, if white trash and ghetto thugs think things are cool, I guess it's all okay.

America is becoming a wealthy, powerful nation with an unstoppable military machine, that shows no responsibility in using it. It is run by men, all of them unelected (even, but not limited to, the President) who are openly giving big business they have close connections to exclusive access to the financial opportunities created by a war they lied to start.

Technically, Iraq was a Democracy.

Edit: Actually, I mis-spoke. I should have said:

Officially, Iraq was a Democracy.

don't start with 'technically'

that's the sort of language theking uses to prove a point

things may be 'technically' (legally) something, but day to day may be something completely different

even if iraq was technical a democracy, we all know it was a dictatorship don't we?

getting bogged down into arguable detail means you miss the big picture of what's actually occuring

in an ideal set up, it seems to be good to be very 'portable' and have assets in several different countries

many 'elite' here have money offshore don't they?

This is how diluted Democrats are, they actually believe NO ONE voted for Bush! :1orglaugh

:1orglaugh !

I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.

Difference being that people can actually vote for pro-reform parties in Iran and those even win sometimes. (e.g. Khatami)

No I haven't said that...but then again "totalitarian betrayals of the rights" is your opinion and that of a small minority.

"The kind of country we should be so opposed to"...once again your opinion and that of a small minority.

Yep...one is free to disagree with the majority. Oh...I see...the 69% majority in the poll that favor the Patriot Act are uninformed but the 22% that think the Patriot Act goes to far...are the informed ones.

By the way how many letters have you mailed/faxed to your Congressman since President Bush has taken office and since 9/11...or do you even know your Congressman's name?

no - you were right first time - it was in fact a democracy

it's just saddam was really, really popular, and always got 100% of the vote

;-)

I guess what I mean is that I doubt the honesty of the claims of "Democracy" in Iran. However, I don't know a ton about that country, so I can't say with authority.

If it is a Democracy, then I think a homosexual should work for reform. If the personal danger became an issue, that would certainly count as "trying hard enough", in which case nobody can argue if they leave.

Bush got less votes than Gore...

fights for other countries freedoms? uh huh.. it seems to me only the anti-Bush crowd give a rats ass about other countries.

Didn't something like that happen with Bush?

Yes I believe what I said... That didn't insult me to admit that either.