tranza

Fucking idiots: the lion eats the deer, as simple as that.... The strongger survives, that's nature.... Same rights my ass.....

Because of this thread my dinner is going to be ONLY STEAK, 1 POUND OF MEAT!!

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phpslave

i wrote a email to them a month ago with no response:

I find your billboards offensive and very disturbing. I understand the point you?re trying to make, however you should not force those graphic and violent images to be viewed by my children. At least KFC does it behind closed doors. However your campaign isn?t about the children, but only about your beliefs ? just another cult forcing their agenda and potentially damaging campaigns on our future ? our children. Think of the children!

no response, just a auto gen email thanking me for my support, the fuckers.

well here's to a steak and a cold beer, i'm out

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SCJason

Punk world......Do really think that animals in the US can just live as they were 100 years ago ? It takes a certain amount of natural habitat to sustain each animal. We have taken the habitat to build houses and businesses. It is gone. Why do you think the numbers have dwindled ? Do you have any idea what kind catastrophic death in wildlife we would have if the Fish and Game stopped feeding the herds during the harsh winters ? Where would the migrating water fowl stop to rest and feed on there journey south, if we did not preserve wetlands ? You are arguing my points, for that I am grateful. I am not arguing the need for the protection of animals and habitat. What I am saying is that these people do nothing to help the cause. I am totally down for repairing the damage caused by people being people. That is why I donate to organiztions like the Ducks Unlimited and The Rocky Mountain Elks foundation. These people fight to preserve nature and its animals. As far as your "If you aren't perfect, it is wrong to try and change the world for the better". statement. That is what you do not understand about these groups. You seem to have lost focus. This is debate on whether these groups are worth a shit or not. Not whether we should protect our resoucres. You are describing the very core of there ideology. It is an all or nothing attitude. When you side with the fanatics you must walk the walk, TO THE LETTER, those are there rules.

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Fucko

Fuck PETA, I would eat them too if I could catch them. They are just cowards, and have nothing better to do then try and dictate what everyone should and shouldn't do!!!

phpslave

i'm with fucko.

now back to the steak and beer, steak med rare please (live in texas to long)

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Lane

its ok to kill and eat animals:

http://go.stileproject.com/?v=kitty.mpg

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Fucko

phpslave,

I and gutting a cow now, with a rusty fork. I will cut you off a flank!!!

Libertine

You aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, are you?

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jas1552

Anybody with half a brain already knows peta is a bunch of brainwashed nutcases. You just can't take those types seriously.

For those that actually believe that peta crap I'll ask some questions that were already asked in this thread but not yet answered.

Are humans animals? Do some animals eat other animals? Should all animals that eat other animals be stopped from doing so? Should the human animal be the only animal stopped from eating other animals? If so why? If one animal kills another animal should the murderer animal be charged with murder? Does it have the right to a fair trial by a jury of it's animal peers?

Those people are such idiots.

dropped9

Great questions!!!!!!!!!!

Libertine

I'm sure you see the problematic outcome of such reasoning, namely that it would lead to the conclusion that nothing should be done against humans who kill other humans.

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dropped9

So basicaly you "have no comment"........

LOL

Dravyk

How does such a boring thread get so many posts? (Mine included?)

I owe it to how good Headless looks in nylons.

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BVF

Damn that's some FOUL shit!! Let me go fire up this grill and cook these porkchops....

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Libertine

You seem to be missing some points. First of all, nobody says animals should live like they did 100 years ago. Things change, there is nothing you can do against that. But how does that make it good to kill animals?
Nobody says preserving wetlands isn't good either. However, does that mean you can't try and change the world for the better in other ways as well?

Also, where did those "rules" suddenly come from? Especially since they go directly against the rules of argumentation.
By the logic of your rules, someone who's against violence is not allowed to kick the crap out of someone who punches him in the face.

These groups have a significant influence on society, and because of that they are worth quite a bit more than a shit.



(btw, I am not an environmentalist at all. I like large steaks, wear leather boots, have a leather coat, like things like fishing and hunting and am sitting on a wooden chair. It's not that I agree with the PETA, it's that I find the arguments being tossed around in here rather bad. There are some good arguments that can be used against environmentalist groups, none of which have yet been used in this thread)

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dropped9

Drav, you just don't have the rico swaaaaaaave in you like me...

Libertine

You missed it again?

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dropped9

Why not try answering the questions slappy?

Instead of dodging them.

jas1552

No. That would be the outcome of the reasoning of those who think all animals (humans included) should have equal rights, since charging an animal (humans not included) with murder and giving it a fair trial by a jury of it's animal peers would be impossible.

Dravyk

I was wondering who was in you.

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Rictor

I'm a strong supporter of People Eating Tasty Animals. Especially puppies and kittens since pigs are much more intelligent. After all, we should base our eating habits on which animals are the smartest not on which are the cutest and cudliest, right?

a1ka1ine

fuck she looks so hot in this pic. damn.. shes my dreamgirl.. :-s

MiLo

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tranza

Lol.... I'm not the one who believes and defends this PETA bs.......

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lexr

Humans are omnivores. People like PETA members and supporters need to stop pretending we aren't and need to remember what it is that we truly are.

When are we going to have PETPV? People for Ethical Treatment of Plants and Vegetables.

slackologist

Sustainability and minimizing cruelty are the compromises here.

No group will not stop everyone in the world from eating animals, or using animal products, survival of the fittest is still the law of the land as it has been since the beginning of life on earth.

Missy

I think a lot of you are missing one major point. It seems to me that a major part of the focus of PETA and other animal rights orginizations is how the animals are treated while they are still living. Sure, they push veganism, but that isn't their only focus. As for myself, I like to eat meat and dairy. I wear leather and wool. I don't think any animal rights group is going to change my mind on that.

However, seeing the way most of these animals are raised and treated, whether for food, clothing or entertainment, is extremely disturbing. I, for one, would love to see some regulations imposed on the "farms" that raise these animals, and have active inspectors who can legally issue fines (or worse) for the inhumane abuse that goes on every day in these factories.

I have no problem when somebody wants to go out and shoot a deer, provided they do it quickly and humanely, and as long as they eat what they kill. However, I would have serious issues if that same person were to catch (or raise) a deer, chain it to the ground so it can't move or even stand up, expose it to near-freezing temperatures, starve it, deprive it of water, make it lay in it's own shit, and allow it to live with severe infections and diseases without any treatment. The best day of that deer's miserable life would be the day the person stuffs it into a crate half it's size and drives it to the butcher shop. And all that just so the person can enjoy a few tasty meals. That's the equivalent of what a lot of these animals go through, and that alone is enough to make me want to stop eating meat.

Carrie

The farms do have inspectors and can issue fines and even close down the farm.
The thing is, it's all based on numbers and percentages.

When a photographer goes through and finds *one* pig laying in the aisle for disposal, it makes for a nice heart-wrenching shot.
But the truth of the matter is that thousands upon thousands of pigs are being raised at that farm, and *one* lying in the aisle for an hour waiting for the attendant to get done filling the troths in that building does not a violation make.

There are limits - how many animals can be in each pen, how many dead animals can be in each building (because yes, *gasp*, animals DO kill each other while we're not watching), the length of time between discovery of and removal of a dead animal, etc.

One animal in an aisle for an hour when you're tending to 30,000 pigs and filling 3,000 troths is probably considered 'acceptable'.

Also the PETA and similar folks talk about how these animals are killed without euthanasia, etc; and how only stun guns are used.
That's because these are animals being raised for food; injecting them with euthanasia directly prior to killing them would leave the drug in the body, which would then be passed on to the consumer.

There are a *lot* of people to feed in this country, and there are a *lot* of animals needed to do so. If someone can come up with a more humane way of processing tens of thousands of animals at a time without endangering the humans that will be handling those animals and the ones who will be consuming the meat from those animals, they should speak up.

PETA et al likes to conveniently ignore things like that, and focus only (for example) on the one pig laying in the aisle when there are thousands of healthy pigs in the same building.

Missy

You do have a point. The people at PETA and others show us only what they want us to see. However, the *one* pig out of 30,000 is not exactly accurate. My boyfriend's best friend worked at a chicken "farm" in Iowa, and his only job there was to dispose of the unacceptable chickens. He said that EVERY DAY he picked out 100+ chickens and threw them away, many of them still alive, but not good enough to be sold for food. They were tossed into a pile with thousands of other dead and rotting chickens, and left there to die. A lot of the chickens had to be "pried" off the wire cages because they were squeezed so tight into such a tiny living space. He said at first he couln't stand doing that- killing innocent animals like that, but it only took a couple of weeks before the animals were not animals to him anymore. They were just objects, and it was just a job, and that's where the problem lies in my opinion.

All I know is that if one of my cats were treated in the way most of these "farm" animals are, I would vomit for days, cry for weeks, and have nightmares for years to come.

KRL

Hi,

Just got back home and wanted to clarify my prior comments.

I was not endorsing PETA or Greenpeace first of all. I don't think taking things to the extreme the way both those organizations do really accomplishes things as effectively as possible. It clearly turns off many people to the causes they are fighting for as well.

I just believe it is important to have awareness of what goes on in the world. Then people can at least make a choice on the issues and either say fuck it or this is an issue that needs to be addressed and fixed as best as possible.

I've tried going completely vegetarian several times, but it was very difficult on my body and I felt it was impacting my health. Now I'm a semi vegetarian. I eat salads and vegetables and other health food as much as possible and have cut way back on my meat intake to at most once a week. I eat mostly fish when it comes to meat. And when I do have meat its in very small portions. It really does gross me out sometimes and I often think of what I'm really eating and start to gag.

I do think from a health standpoint our bodies were meant to have animal protein in our food sources. Obviously there is no way in hell people will stop eating meat unless some mass epidemic like that mad cow disease really blew out all over. But I just think the least we can do as carnivores is treat the animals that will be slaughtered to keep us alive in a humane manner. They should be provided space to move around. Food and water and a decent living environment. That's the least we owe them in consideration for killing them for our food.

Its clearly important that medical research still require animals for research though computer models are now becoming much more widely used. And hey if we're going to put a monkey through the tortures of experiments at least make sure he's got as much comfort as possible in light of the stuff being done to him. And if its possible to do the experiment with a computer model, our tax dollars shouldn't be used and wasted to keep some scientists lab going when it doesn't have to.

On the environment issue, the older I get the more I realize how badly we've fucked up our world. It is really getting out of hand with 6 Billion people now on the planet. The planet will not be able to sustain continued growth forever unless you take care of it in kind. Yeh we have to cut trees down, and yet we need to still drill for oil, and everything else. But as much as we can we should study the impact of everything we do and make sure if there is a way to do it without impacting the environment as much that should always be the way to go.

So in conclusion, lets at least be humane to the animals that keep us alive. Let's take care of our beautiful lands as best we can.

Thank you for your opinions. And I hope my position is now better clarified.

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DJRCyberAVS

Carrie & Missy. We have fairly strict farming laws here, the latest one being toys for pigs to keep them entertained.

robfantasy

peta chicks are crazy, i dated one

weirdos

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sacX

yeah I hate peta especially for winning WIPO case against people eating tasty animals..

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KC

That all-creatures site should send traffic to Meatholes! It would probably kick ass..

http://www.meatholes.com/meathole.htm

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bhutocracy

another one of the founders has also left become MORE extreme.. as if either of these events have any bearing whatsoever on the validity of the organisation.

bhutocracy

I'm not even really aware or care about PETA or even the welfare of food in general but you know very well yourself that you're willfully misunderstanding what they stand for to take the piss out of them.
Lions eat other animals but they aren't in charge of the destiny of just about every living creature on the planet.. for better or for worse - we are.. and with that comes certain responsibilities.

PETA obviously take these responsibilties too far.. but the thing about extremists is that you need them to keep the other end in check. It's not as if they're ever going to convince the world not to eat meat, but having them there in the background isn't exactly having many negative effects.. the less people that eat meat the less resources used so good on them.

wig

There is no validity to this organisation and many like them. They are extreme wackos. They have no sense of balance, only a burning emotional ideology.

Just like in anything else (gun control, religion, politics), it only takes a few dedicated nut jobs to cajole thousands of sheep.

If you support Greenpeace, you are one of the sheep.

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wig

I agree on the extremes. In the middle lies reality and the truth!

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bhutocracy

and if you are against them you are one of the other sheep.

see.. if we were in perfect balance with the environment then extremists wanting to further "save" it would be unwarranted. Given how badly we're fucking it up though I really couldn't give a rats ass if there were heaps more of these groups, they keep the other extremists - corporate polluters etc in check. You people just like to have a good whinge on easy targets like stinking hippies, but you cry and sob when your kids get cancer from soil contamination or high lead levels in your food. You can't have it both ways. It would be nice if we naturally steered the middle course but it aint the way it happens.. unfortunately we need prancing idiots on both sides to try and keep the mean somewhere near centre.

bhutocracy

hehe.. and if not, its at the very least a safer route to take.. I want to punch a hippy in the face as much as the next guy, mostly because they shoot themselves in the foot by protesting in stupid outfits and stunts etc.. but I know they're only helping to keep things in check..

12clicks

You're not a man until you've eaten veal, fois gras, and ortolan.

"beef, the other red meat"

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Libertine

That was not a question, it was a remark lacking any insight whatsoever.

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wig

I am not against them in so much that I have not done anymore to lessen their cause thatn post on this board. Their ideology is flawed. Just like a corporate polluters ideology is flawed. I denounce them both. I am no where near a sheep.

Quote:

see.. if we were in perfect balance with the environment then extremists wanting to further "save" it would be unwarranted. Given how badly we're fucking it up though I really couldn't give a rats ass if there were heaps more of these groups, they keep the other extremists - corporate polluters etc in check. You people just like to have a good whinge on easy targets like stinking hippies, but you cry and sob when your kids get cancer from soil contamination or high lead levels in your food. You can't have it both ways. It would be nice if we naturally steered the middle course but it aint the way it happens.. unfortunately we need prancing idiots on both sides to try and keep the mean somewhere near centre.

We do not, nor will we ever live in a perfect world. I do not go through life worrying about all the animals dissapearing or how they are teated, what will happen to crops, trees, etc., global warming, gun control or any of the other BS that are hot buttons for emotionally charged individuals that have nothing better to do than champion an extreme cause.

For all we know, a meteor might hit earth next year and all this other shit will be moot.

I just concentrate on what I can have an impact on... my community, my surroundings, my business, my family and my life.

Realist or Idealist?

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wig

Has anyone seen the Penn and Teller skit where they interview all the environmental activists?

Fucking hilarious. And, these are the people who are suposed to be able to articulate their position the best.

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Libertine

The same goes for retarded people and children. If a child or a retarded person kills someone, should they be given a fair trial by a jury consisting of their underage or retarded peers?

But aside from that, this is also a very good argument against humans eating meat, if you also say "Why should only humans refrain from killing other animals?". You just gave the answer, it seems. Humans have the choice, they're intelligent beings with the choice to act morally. That's what sets them apart from other animals.

Now, if you say "That gives them the right to slaughter anything less intelligent", that leads to the conclusion that retards and infants should be eaten as well. Besides, it is not a reason at all - "I can act morally, thefore I shouldn't." doesn't sound that logical, does it.

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KRL

Good point. Watch everyone change their tune if one day Earth is invaded by a large Alien force looking for fresh food on their journey and in their world the most intelligent beings are considered like our Filet Mignons.

Hmmm hmmm, well lookie here Gorg, looks like we're gonna have some Kentucky Fried Humans tonight . . . Yummy

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arial

They all look so tasty!

KRL

Arial, what's up with that scrolling text in your sig that says "I Kill More Fags Than AIDS"?

Shit dude, that is seriously not cool.

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My Dixie Wrecked

You really think if your little aliens invaded and ate some humans, people would stop eating cows? LOL