Yeah, it's quite laughable that people still can't see how big gubment works.

You've got lobbiest who day in and day out 7 days a week are whispering into congressmen's ears wanting to get their backs scratched...and we all know that scratching goes both ways.

You gotta give to get something in return.

It's not just ONE thing, it's a bunch of things that add up like you said to one WHOLE picture.

Might I remind you that Visa is not a government entity?
It is a private sector business, and as such, it can charge whatever interest rates it wants to.
If they decided to charge 75% interest they could do it - it's their money that they're lending to customers to buy things with. They determine the amount it's going to cost you when you pay back that loan.

what about those of us who have ran our business like a business from the get go and still get fucked? what about the fact that one has signed fed ex receipts that match the cc info for a purchase and still receive a chargeback. you know what i was told, sorry to hear that but there's nothing we can do even though you have proof. the truth lies with the cardholder.

at one point the cc companies were for the merchant but i guess they realize that since they will forever make their money, the merchant, who makes them their money every month, can just go suck gas.

very professional way to handle themselves.

You might wanna take a break from sounding as if you know it all for a bit, and open your mind and learn something.

Government and corporations work hand in hand all the time, if you can't see that, or refuse to see that then you don't really understand who's in control of this country.

there's no other online business activities like gambling and porn at the moment with so many unstable factors.

There are scams that have been selling a whole decade from how to cure cancer in a day...to how to become the next bill gates in less than week through reputable processing co.

They offer nothing, they mislead and hurt in plenty of cases, i bet they have as high CB ratios as porn and still everything is great there.

Hey good idea...let's get into the selling cancer cures through email biz.

Actually, when they get TMFed, their just as done doing business as anybody else.....and in fact, they are in far worse trouble in the FBI gets on their ass

Soul I know it feels better to have someone else to blame, some big nasty bully that we cannot control and therefore we're just hapless victims caught in the beast's whims...
But that's just not the case.

This is totally our fault.
You don't see Visa doing this to mainstream merchants who focus on giving the customer what they want and keeping the customer for life... not having pre-checked cross-sells with shady terminology explaining how you think you're getting charged $1 but you're actually getting charged $110, etc.

The adult industry did this to itself. You've got to pay the piper sooner or later.

That doesn't mean Visa can't be influenced or intimidated by the government. While we can't say that an under the table deal was struck by the A-s-h-c-r-o-f-t DOJ and the CC companies to put porn out of business, you can't discount the fact that Visa has an army of lawyers watching the political situation very closely.

You'd better believe that the CC companies are acutely aware of not only how small a piece of their pie we are, but how hostile the political climate is becoming.

yes,but what's the CB ratio there and what's the new CB ratio for online porn? Two different standards. Porn vs Mainstream.

it seems VISA has controlled some aspects in the adult bizz :(

Okay, eros.
I'll go on thinking that Visa is a company and can make its own decisions regarding what's good for its business and bottom line, and you go on thinking that it's some massive conspiracy that we never had any control over.

Would you like some black helicopters and sunglasses to help you justify the actions of Visa?
How about blinders instead? They might work better - then you really won't be able to see all of the scamming methods practiced by the biggest names in this business that put adult websites squarely in Visa's crosshairs.
Happy delusions...

Once again...quit flapping and listen for a bit.

No one is saying it is ONLY the government doing this, what they are saying is that there are a combination of factors at play here.

Yes you have rampant fraud in this industry, yes you have rampant CB's in this industry, yes porn does make up a small % of Visa's biz...HOWEVER that does not discount the political atmosphere that we live in today vs what we lived in just a few short years ago.

Didn't the supreme court rule that a CC was sufficient enough to verify someone's age?

Now comes along Visa and you can no longer state that.

Hmm....kinda strange isn't it?

Yup.

No see..you're only thinking in black and white and not shades of grey which this world lives in.

It's not just one or the other...once again it's a combination of factors.

COPA got struck down...but now VISA is doing the Job that COPA couldn't.

Actually, it's not strange why VISA is going to go after AVS. Some AVS sites have the worst disclosure out there - convincing customers that this was free...and putting that on a split hidden frame, where you would have to know it was there, then scroll down to find out that you were actually being charged $40 for a megasite.

The supreme court said that businesses COULD accept CC as proof of age.... it never said that any business HAD to.

Yes but the point IS...that Visa will no longer allow you to state that.

Regardless of the shady practices of cross selling or so called "free" avs systems.

Even if they cleaned up every aspect of it they can still no longer claim that they are using the CC as an age verifier.

Carrie, there's no doubt that from our side as an industry we had cases of fraud towards to our clients, but fraud exists in all aspects of doing business online. Only these two industries receive the heat. As I said,there's no other activity so unstable than online porn.

does anybody have any links to the changes around AVS systems lately?

Does anybody have any actual FACTS and not bullshit time consuming gfy rumors?

That's true. I think that on a lot of these issues, Visa has seen that since last September that companies are just wiggling around looking for ways to get around these restrictions. (understandably), and so VISA is just clamping down that much harder. (also understandably)

Unfortunately...NO

Eros, it was just a matter of time before some attorney hauled an adult webmaster into court and the webmaster said their site was protected by credit cards; it wasn't their fault that Visa is giving credit cards (or debit cards which work as a Visa card) to underage minors who were then allowed to access the explicit pornographic material.

That puts the responsibility on Visa's shoulders, and Visa isn't going to have that.

Visa is in the right with AVS systems - they're saying "we're using your VISA card to verify your age", which is a lie now because minors have cards.

America is sue-happy. Imagine all of the lawsuits that would suddenly spring up against Visa if just one person successfully argued that they suffered mental damages after their young son used his Visa Buxxx card to access porn sites and then would never leave his room, wouldn't go to church, etc.
God. It would be like flies swarming on shit - kinda funny to think about, actually. ;)

do you realize some of the levels that the fraud has reached? I won't even talk about the stuff that is considered "normal" in this industry that you would freak out about if your local supermarket pulled it......I'm talking about some players out there that will take a database of customers and bang the cards through one account after another, sometimes through unsuspecting processors also, for absolutely NO reason, and walk away with tens of millions of dollars. This happens a lot more than people realize

The latest "victims" are FreeNetPass and SexCheck - notices are inside of their webmasters' areas and they've emailed notices to their webmasters as well.
The letters posted here are just copied from those notices.

Edit: SexCheck emailed their notice, not sure if they posted it in their webmasters' area.
FNP and their other site, AFL (Access For Life) did both.

so? take actions against the specific events, not against the whole industry.

http://www.domainzoo.com
http://www.domainpeople.com

two years ago they scammed 10000s webmasters for many million dollars by selling pre-registrations of .biz and .info domains. They do not even bothered to register them for you even when the domains were available for everyone. In my case my C.C. was getting billed by two different co. , i never received my domains, some of them probably are still available for registration (go figure).

I never saw anyone taking any action against 'em and of course none ever thought to push the domain registr. industry.

I can give you 100s examples of such mainstream fraud. If I ask you the same for our industry you'll tell me babenet and 3-4 more names.

My stats are way up this period with CyberAge......anyway...here is good article about the goverment's role with credit cards(old article but still relavent) http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.asp?control=34.

Trust me.... the people in power "Right Wing Conservatives" have a say in how VISA/Mastercard policies should be.....

WRONG, just plain wrong. Coming from banking and mortgage business for the last 27 years I will tell you to research and think before posting this non-sense

Carrie = no clue

You are absolutely right.

It is also my opinion that this is all due to Bush.
Didn't he said that he was going to fight the adult industry ?

That illuminated think is has a mission from god.

Doesn't he think that he is "good" and all muslim all "evil" ?
He is against sex if your not married, against gay, against abortion.

To me, he is simply mentally retarded.

PAN!C

I wish Acacia would figure that out..

Guys and Gals,

Maybe I am fucked in the head, or should just "Go fuck myself", but yes this does present a problem, but insted of stewing on the problem why not work on a solution ?

Where ever there is a new road block there is a path around it.

Here is an easy solution for AVS's:

Become a Free Host ( But not really a free host as far as Visa is concerned )

Switch over all clients to your *free hosting*

Pay a smaller percentage to cover your costs

Have all webmasters simply redirect their surfers to this new domain owned by the AVS

Rewrite your terms so that you, the AVS, own the content uploaded in partnership with the webmaster.

Then you are running a partner program paying the webmaster
a percentage of YOUR sales and not collecting for a third party.

Does this not sound do-able ?

i'm sure this is the strategy some AVS's will try but it ain't gonna wash. Do you not understand yet? VISA has this industry on the run and has it all figured out, u can run but u can no longer hide, they know the tricks.

offering free hosting does nothing, it's still a site run by a third party webmaster - u get access to my site when you join SuperAVS or SuperEntertainmentNetwork.

and the more the scumbags try to dance around VISA the angrier they get with everybody in this biz - until one day they just say 'fuck all of you, BUH BYE!'. alot of great hard working honest people are going to lose millions of dollars because of the scumbags.

that is sad. stop whining about VISA, they are a far distant second when it comes to villains in this affair.

I have been watching this very closley , and in my opinion , I believe there is really no conspiricy

The Card companies have said from the begining , Clean up your act ,
- lower the charge backs.
- Make each website responsible as an individual ..seeya Avs
- Monitor the changes

The good news is if you have low charge backs , run your business honestly , you will be ok ....

Scam the system , and you will be coding Html for food !!

Thats the way we see it

Ray
www.watchersweb.com

Very true, if Bush and Ashcr**t had their way Visa/MC would have pulled the plug totally.

Visa/MC are saying "Do business our way or go find another CC card company who will accept you"

But it's not just fraud and CB, it's also some of the material some people put out. Maybe Visa/MC do not want to be associated with Skat, Incest, Rape, Watersports, Max Hardcore, Kiddie porn, etc.

Will it cost us some webmasters? Yes

Will it cost us some surfers? No

This may be the foreshadowing of some serious changes in the adult biz. I'm just glad I got out of AVS months ago.

Let's cross our fingers that this gets better before it gets worse.

No maybe about it.

You are the problem not the solution.

Listen to WWRay and Mutt.

Visa are saying "Clean up or go" idiots like you will have them saying "So Long"

I agree, the whole pre-registration was a total scam !
I registered a name, but can't access it now !
And all the fake bogus trademarks not verified at all - if you would only see my letters to Affilias and ICANN.
But, .... after that I actually got in the adlut biz.