And who's estimate is this?

:thumbsup

Doesn't matter if it's even ballpark. Get real. 100,000 people died at Nagasaki and Hiroshima combined. 50 million people died in World War II and the bomb ended it once and for all.

Just consider the numbers at Okinawa alone. Imagine attacking the Japanese mainland. It was going to horrendous. Japan didn't even surrender after the first bomb was dropped. It would have been much worse.

actually I've changed my mind.
Adam

I don't think I'd play this game.

My old lawyer :ak47::ak47:

Official estimates claim at least 200,000 killed - the majority women, children and elderly men.

And Colin, KK, et al. if terrorists do one day get their hands on nukes, smuggle them into the US, and set 4 of them off simultaneously in NYC, Washington, Chicago, and LA????

Stalin wouldnt have a decent opponent to fight and we would all be speaking russian in no time + ten times more ppl would get killed :ak47:

My choice would be that disgusting fat pig Anna Nichole Smith

I'd fuck her.

100,000/50 million or 200,000/50 million. You know it doesn't matter. Atomic weapons didn't even contribute 1/2 of 1% of WW II deaths. I'll use your numbers. The Pacific war would have raged on for a very long time and surely many hundreds of thousands and probably millions of people would have died. Isn't it inconceivable that everywhere else during WW II, large scale battles were fought and caused millions of deaths but somehow it wouldn't have happened on Japan? Take two days in May, 1945. The fire bombing of Tokyo in May killed 100,000 people. No nukes. Just conventional bombs.

Dropping those bombs were the most humane think that could have been done. Even the Japanese didn't surrender after the first one. Context.

What does "the majority women, children, and elderly men" mean? women + children is always a majority of a population. Do you think you can simply persuade people by pointing out "women, children, and old men?" This shows you are reacting emotionally and not rationally. ;-)

KRL, if we're allowed to play "what if" games of extreme improbability I have a few too. Maybe you should choose the guy that invented gunpowder instead. His invention has done way more damage than Oppenheimer's dream team project ever will.

I just have to quote that again.

I cant say I would want anyone one person taken out of history..everyone has its place in time ..whether it be for good or evil. :2 cents:

People will always come up with new ways to kill each other.

Have you seen Metal Storm yet? Made in Brisbane. Had a gander at that yet, Joe? Coming to America ...

Oprah! :thumbsup

my wife's divorce lawyer......I would wish my wife but that would end my kids life also and I can't do that....

The bastards who burns up The Library of Alexandria :feels-hot

Are you trying to tell me that if the US hadn't dropped the atomic bombs that 50 million more people would have been killed? Anyway, it is widely accepted that no invasion of the Japanese mainland would ever have been necessary.

Besides, why weren't the bombs dropped on a non civilian target?

It's funny to watch you rationalise the murder of 200,000 innocent civilians. That's the equivalent of 9/11 every day for forty days... as I said before mostly women, children and elderly men. And this was over 50 years ago.

Colin, if the US government were setting up concentration camps and gas chambers for muslim Americans you would be on here trying to convince us that it was all for good reason and that it was in all being done in the best interests of the free world. :1orglaugh

A lot of those guys are AMAZING scientists who have given MUCH more to the world than just the atomic bomb.

Bohr - Fermi - Bloch!

It would be a great loss indeed to lose any of them.

Myself I'd prefer not to kill anyone that existed before my birth, who knows - I may never be born as a result.

That has probably saved more lives than you can imagine. How long do you think the Russian or American tanks would have sat still in the middle or Europe if it were not for the threat that within 30 minutes either side could have delivered Armgedon with the push of a button?

Think the bigger picture.

I would love to know where you got those figures from.

No need to worry you're safe. Even the locals can't find it, so what chance a foriegner? :1orglaugh

No, i didn't say anything like that. How to you draw that conclusion?

Search around a little. Well known figures. In nearly every history book on WW II.

Sending a atomic bomb over millions of innocent people is gay. People of Nagasaki had nothing to do with this conflict. It's one of the biggest crimes ever. I wonder who are the biggest terrorists on earth?

I didn't say it was needed. I said it would save hundreds of thousands and probably millions of lives. Remember the bombing of Tokyo killed 100,000 civilians in a weekend. Look at the ratio of Japanese civilian to US military casualties on Okinawa. Many hundreds of thousands of more Japanese civilians would have been killed on Japan than were at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Clearly.

They were dropped on civilian targets because that was the war culture of the time. WW II didn't begin with civilian area bombings however England and Germany waged an increasing battle of attrition between civilian populations and that culture spread
globally throughout the war. There are many interesting books on the subject. I believe Keegan's "History of Warfare" has some commentary on the subject.

You are trying to apply 21st century ideas and models of warfare on a mid-20th century war.

People bombed civilian targets in 1945 warfare. Completely normal for the times.

At this scale? I mean nuclear bombs is not usual little bomb.

To die without having the opportunity to defend yourself is my concern. What would you chose? Die like a soldier in combat or in a mass bombing without even having the time to wonder what happened?

I miss the good ol' chivalry times :)

I can multiply. Thanks. It's funnier still to watch you try and apply the cultural ideas of 2003 to 1945 as if you've hit upon some great revelation. Hardly anyone wants civilian targets bombed. You can thank the US for developing the technology that makes more and more accurate targetting of military targets possible. It was not possible in 1945, it was not expected in 1945, and it was not practiced in 1945. You are probably angry that pre-historic people used sticks and stones to heinously murder people.

Again you mention women, children, elderly men. Joe, learn to divide. The majority of ANY population is women, children, and elderly men. Pointing that out is like saying that the majoriyt of people killed in a war are people. That's brilliant. The large majority of people living within a 10 square mile radius of your house are women, children, and elderly men. Get that yet or should I try again?

Yes you are right, I just had no idea it was so many. Could not find anywhere with a totla so had to spend 10 minutes with a calculator. Sad.

Appolagies.

Congrats on making one of the top 3 dumbest posts on this thread. Goof.




And, the nagasaki/hiroshima bombings ended the war. Period. A prolonged conventional war including a full-scale invasion of Japan would have cost far far more lives, including many many tens of thousands of American/allied lives. Many more of our parents/grandparents would NOT be alive today if not for those bombs bringing an abrupt end to that war. Some of you might not even exist.


Some people will twist this into something it isn't just to try to use it as well as any excuse they can think of to slam the USA. It's easy to spot, and it's pathetic.

I tried to do better but I just couldnt beat you to top 2, j00 r0o1z :thumbsup

Yeh,LOL, easy for you to say, you don't have 7,000 nukes targeted at your country.

:1orglaugh

Luc Duboi :thumbsup

The posts make some valid points, I'm not sure if it is accurate to say, but I would venture to guess the bombs we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, since being dumped deliberately on civilian targets and people are still messed up genetically to this day from what we did, that it was the greatest number killed in history in one day in a war.

I know on the other hand we saved lives as well. But come on, if we pulled that stunt today and nuked 100,000 civilians, every country in the world would be invading the USA right now to take us out.

Those bastards!

KK - I think I love you. :thumbsup

quiet

Actually zionist plans for the creation of Israel predate Hitler by quite some time. There is a pre-war speech in which he criticizes the treatment of arabs by the british and makes some negative reference about the zionist movement.

It's safe to say many things would be different without Jesus.

The George Bush Sr. would work wonders for me :thumbsup

you did it again in 2003, still normal.

my pick is eminem

I was wondering why the fuck you'd want him dead?

Although since we are only mortal and not timelords, you could also say that it was the russians development of the atomic weapon that stopped the US from 'liberating' Europe..Patton style

Yeah, the replies make more sense to me now too..

Excellent points as usual Colin -- did I mention I love a man that can truly debate? That was one of my favorite classes in school!

KRL -- the atomic bomb was bound to have happened, both the Germans and the Russians were oh so close to having the goods as well -- care to speculate on what would have happened had either or both of them finished up first?

LOL, for fun... Yeah, for fun I agree

Not us - the selected regime :(

Unofficial Iraq statistics : 3,240 civilians killed according to the AP (other numbers say 5,570-7,243) since March, many missing, basic services non functional, this will probably skyrocket as people get more and more desperate. Just the other day I was reading about a 15-year old kid shot by US troops who swear he had an AK-47, even though the kid's friend told them earlier there were kids watching on the rooftops in curiosity.

203 US soldiers killed (64 in the "restoring order" phase), 43 Britons killed. A fair bet that 90+% of them were only 18 or 19 year old kids doing what they had been told was the right thing.

As long as there is money, power, or politics, involved, innocent people will be killed in the name of "justice" or "peace" or whatever...it's a pathetic sad fact of the nature of the old mean men who run things.

-doug

ADAM