Btw Unseen you have a real eye for picking out the 'witchy' girls. It's an interesting niche :Graucho

Can you give examples of scientific fact that was instrumental in some type of change...and what that change was please? I personally can't think of any right now....

Paganism is rooted in nature.....the moon, the earth, the air etc....at this point, I don't see anything scientific that contradicts most Pagan belief systems. (Please note I say 'most')

The majority of Pagans understand that the gods, goddesses and symbols are only tools to aid in the manipulation of energy. They help one focus.

Taking the words in the bible as 'truth' is far different. You most certainly can prove with science that Adam and Eve were NOT the first humans on earth.....

Well I don't think that's been proven yet, but neither has it been proven that Thor doesn't actually fly through the sky bashing giants when it thunders..

Need to spice up the bible. Like instead of just the virgin mary has a kid, how about, the virgin mary does her first gangbang, and then theres like some moral to it.

Some kinda adult bible. Pure hardcore biblical action.

Unfortunately, I'll probably have to pick this conversation up tomorrow after I get to Las Vegas, but what is the rational pagan belief about the afterlife, which is congruent with scientific fact?

I grew up in the Episcopal Church, and the Episcopal Church accepts science as fact, claiming only that God was the author of Nature no matter what we discover about Nature. Most MAJOR Christian sects (other than, say, the Baptists) do no claim that science is wrong, but that science only reveals God's genius and his plan. (I think it's revisionist BS, but that is what most Christian sects say about science.)

I personally think there is enough scientific proof to dismiss Adam and Eve. I also think there is enough scientific proof to dismiss Thor's escapades when it thunders...lol. ;)


Again though...I guess it is my personal opinion. Scientific 'fact' is only as factual as you want it to be I suppose....there will always be someone to refute even a very stable theory.

here's a good summary
http://www.religioustolerance.org/scirel_ov.htm

That depends a lot on what you're defining as a scientific fact.

How about (Christian) Bibles being taken faaaaaaaaaar less literally ?


ref:
http://www.faithreason.org/index.html

And another

Effect:
Creation of the Lutheran church maybe ?

That and the Renaissance. But a lotta things changed then.

And no, I'm not Christian, but I took 12 years of private christian education on the chin, so I know a thing or 2 about it :)

Wow, that does sound interesting. I am not at all familiar with the Episcopal Church. I haven't seen this line of thought in the ever prevelant 'Fundamental' Christian groups out there. So I'll have to plead ignorance here...lol. But I'd be interested to hear more about the relationship between the Major Christan sects you speak of and nature/science.

Have a safe trip to Vegas!

Interesting articles kveldulv...thanks. :)

The religious tolerence website is a good one...I've been there many times before.

I'm a little disappointed this time though...as that article says nothing about Christians adapting due to science...even though that is what the article is 'suppose' to be about??

Religious beliefs, particularly those based on a sacred text, change much more slowly. In fact, many faith groups stress the unchangeable nature of their beliefs. There are three main methods by which religions modify their teachings.

In Christianity, for example: Some Biblical passages that were once considered to be literally true are now interpreted symbolically. Heaven is no longer considered to be somewhere "up there." Hell is no longer believed to exist inside the earth.

Does the bible actually say that Heaven is 'up there' and Hell is 'down there'? Just curious....

Over the past century, Bible passages that describe torture methods inflicted on Hell's inhabitants (worms, pain, flogging, heat, thirst and flames) have been downplayed and often treated as symbolic. They are viewed as representing a person's isolateion from God.

his has nothing to do with science?

Some Biblical passages are ignored. We no longer burn some prostitutes. Sections of the Bible that condoning and regulate slavery are no longer followed. The Bible contains dozens of passages that are profoundly immoral by today's secular and religious standards of behavior. These verses are largely ignored today.

Again, nothing to do with science, but a moral shift in society.

Still other passages are interpreted as perhaps being valid for the culture and age for which they were written, but not binding in a different society or era. Male control over women, restrictions on female ordination, prohibiting women from certain professions, etc. have being largely rejected as sexist by mainline and liberal Christians.

Yet again, a moral basis for change, not scientific.

I haven't read the other articles yet, as my eyes are starting to play games so it's time to hit the hay....but I'll try to get to them tomorrow.

Thanks for the links.

Top of mind, there are some references to it in versions of the bible. Again, it is very much in the teaching of it IMO

As demonstrated here

These guys are pretty sure it's in the depths of the earth.
I remember Pastors at my high school were of differing opinions as to where it was too.

I think that science influenced christianity indirectly more than directly.

IMO, The main effect of science has been on how much people understand about the world around them. This has meant they spend less time looking elsewhere for answers; a common source of fresh blood for religions.

A direct cause-effect relationship is too simple a relationship to look for when trying to quantify changes like this.

That being said, it's friday arvo here and I'm off :)

Have a good weekend all

That's some terrible stuff, why would anyone that claims to be good want to follow those teachings?

As a sidenote, the bible is totally useless as a scientific tool, the source is highly questionable, the various translations from originals are biased and most of the text resembles children scare stories more than history.

Okay, NOW we're doomed.

Don'tcha remember that tv show 'Bewitched'???

Samantha had a dysfunctional family with magical powers and they drove that poor man Darren up the wall?

That was all a 60s 'Flower Power' Hollywood liberal left wing conspiracy to get good God-fearing Christian soldiers into allowing these 'pagans' to breed and spread their ... lewd and unholy ways. Amen.

The beauty of science is that nothing is written in stone. It's the ultimate in agnostic philosophy... no answers are assumed, even after they're proven. Everything is open to revision.

Religion on the other hand... that's not open to revision. It's dogma, and is not based on evidence, as is science.

So I agree that we shouldn't put 100% faith in science, but that's EXACTLY the point OF science. It's the endless search for truth, rather than the assumption of truth.

This is scary...lol.

Out of curiosity, which version of the bible do you believe is most used by the 'general' Christian public. I have always thought it was the King James version....

I agree....

ROTFLMAO!! :1orglaugh

You've got to be kidding me on this one..
Are you serious in saying that science hasn't proven the total farce of the biblical stories about 800 times over?

How on earth can you possibly believe that Science has not disproven that bullshit Adam and Eve story? Which of course would basically throw the human evolution and Natural Selection theories out the window.

At one time humans were so blinded by religious brainwashing that everyone of them convinced themselves that the world was the absolute center of the universe, this is no different, and every 'fact' in the bible falls under this category. The only reason they aren't completely ridiculed and shunned is because people's "faith" in something they can't understand, nor care to question because it fills a void in their life or answers questions that they are too lazy to figure out on their own.

But if you are raised from birth with something that does most of your thinking for you, and answers most of the hard questions in life for you why anyone really to get rid of it. It is like having a magical tool that eats, sleeps and shits for you, saves you a lot of work and trouble in life because you no longer need to worry about some of these things. I can understand why people want to keep religion in their life, although there is this itching in the back of their head questioning the whole kakamaimie affair. I suppose it is kind of like the Matrix.. If you lived a life having certain things answered for you, and believing certain things and then after 30 years or so you were given the opportunity to learn the truth the hard way or go back living in your perfect little figured out, albeit false, life I would bet that most people would choose the Second option(the blue pill?) as it is the path of least resistance..

Humans are lazy, lathargic and rather stupid at some points, religion is the perfect vehicle to encourage and further these traits while making a lot of people a lot of money..

Given Religions do serve their purpose, they do do a lot of good in the world(I would doubt if it is more than the bad tho), but that just shows another stupid point of humanity.. Why can't people give and be helpful without the penalty of 'going to hell' over there head..

Why can't people go to Africa to build wells, communities and such just because there are humans there that need our help?


Ah the humanity!!