War On Terrorism: What about the IRA?

[gothweb]

This question has been floating around for a while, and recently some Brits mentioned it when we were talking politics. I wished I could give them an answer.

If the US has declared war on Terrorism, why will we bomb and invade Iraq and Afghanistan for harboring and creating terrorists, but not do anything about the IRA terrists attacking British civilians?

[Jon]

The IRA was taken off the Terrorist Organizations list. Too late.

[Ketadream]

I thought the IRA disarmed????!?!?!?!?!?!!

[[Labret]]

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by [Labret]

can always count on you...

[Jon]

I'm sure the IRA would love to see that people think they are associated with the same group of assholes who pulled off 9-11.

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by NiteChatDotTV
I'm sure the IRA would love to see that people think they are associated with the same group of assholes who pulled off 9-11.

Now the PLO is tied in with 9-11?

Better get on the phone to Bush and let him know.

[Jon]

Originally posted by [Labret]


Now the PLO is tied in with 9-11?

Better get on the phone to Bush and let him know.

I'm sure they are all tied together somehow. Gotta love the videos and images of those "innocent" palestinian people cheering in the streets on 9/11.

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by NiteChatDotTV


I'm sure they are all tied together somehow. Gotta love the videos and images of those "innocent" palestinian people cheering in the streets on 9/11.

I laughed when it happened.

Does that make me a terrorist?

[Digipimp]

maybe because the fucking english need to get the hell out of ireland.

[funkmaster]

Originally posted by NiteChatDotTV


I'm sure they are all tied together somehow. Gotta love the videos and images of those "innocent" palestinian people cheering in the streets on 9/11.

... I think it´s old news ... but that footage was taken in some african nation back in 98´... CNN fooled us all.

[Gimmy]

America only cares about anti-American terrorists

[foe]

What about hamas, hezbolla....
there are a ton of terrorist groups outthere, hopefully their time will come

[dav555add]

Originally posted by [Labret]


I laughed when it happened.

Does that make me a terrorist?

One day you will meet your end

[Digipimp]

the big difference is that irish people are a ethnic group whereas palestinians are really just fucking jordanians who are fighting over land that was never theirs in the first place. the english should get the fuck out of ireland and let them have catholicism if they so choose. if israel was trying to convert the palestinians to judaism you can damn well bet that things would be 10 times worse off than they are now.

[Jon]

Originally posted by funkmaster


... I think it´s old news ... but that footage was taken in some african nation back in 98´... CNN fooled us all.

Just like there was no Holocaust?

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by Gimmy
America only cares about anti-American terrorists

and anti-Israel.

We have a vested interest in protecting that little island of Jew converts.

Israel gets wiped off the map, the xtians in this country (the government) are gonna have a hard time explaining why Jesus wont be coming back anytime soon.

No Israel, no return of Jesus. No return of Jesus?

That is not an option. Jesus HAS to come back, he said he would. After Israel has been restored.

[dav555add]

Originally posted by [Labret]


and anti-Israel.

We have a vested interest in protecting that little island of Jew converts.

Israel gets wiped off the map, the xtians in this country (the government) are gonna have a hard time explaining why Jesus wont be coming back anytime soon.

No Israel, no return of Jesus. No return of Jesus?

That is not an option. Jesus HAS to come back, he said he would. After Israel has been restored.

When you were in jail, did you get your ass fucked by a black jew?

[cezam]

Originally posted by [Labret]


I laughed when it happened.

Does that make me a terrorist?

Hell no, that just makes you an asshole.

[Jon]

Originally posted by [Labret]


I laughed when it happened.

Does that make me a terrorist?

Well you're a sick fuck anyhow, but that's common knowledge on here.

[sltr]

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by NiteChatDotTV


Well you're a sick fuck anyhow, but that's common knowledge on here.

Sick fuck, perhaps. Terrorist, no.

Do you ever get tired of having your ass handed to you in arguments you never even remotely had a chance of winning?

You didnt graduate high school did you?

[gothweb]

Originally posted by Digipimp
the big difference is that irish people are a ethnic group whereas palestinians are really just fucking jordanians who are fighting over land that was never theirs in the first place. the english should get the fuck out of ireland and let them have catholicism if they so choose. if israel was trying to convert the palestinians to judaism you can damn well bet that things would be 10 times worse off than they are now.

I honestly think you are fanning the wrong flames on this one. You are getting into the (perceived) causes of the conflict, rather than the fact that terrorism is still used in the name of taking Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom into the Republic of Ireland.

I don't really want to fan those flames with you, but I have to correct some basic mistakes in what you just said...

Ireland is an independent state, consisting of a mixture of people who almost all want to be an independent state. Britain doesn't want Ireland.

Northern Ireland is a province of the United Kingdom with a minority who want to be part of Ireland.

Some interesting facts...

1. The United Kingdom doesn't care whether Northern Irish people are Catholic or Protestant.

2. Ireland doesn't want Northern Ireland. They have said so repeatedly.

3. The majority of people in Northern Ireland do not support the IRA, or other Republican groups.

4. Both the Republican and Unionist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland are more like gangs than political groups. They aren't just fighting for Union vs. Replublic, or Protestant vs. Catholic, they are fighting to retain control of organized crime, like drugs and arms.

5. The US has declared "war on terrorism", not "war on terrorism committed by brown people who aren't christian".

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by gothweb



5. The US has declared "war on terrorism", not "war on terrorism committed by brown people who aren't christian".

ahahahahaha

riiiight

[easyfun]

the big difference is that irish people are a ethnic group whereas palestinians are really just fucking jordanians who are fighting over land that was never theirs in the first place. the english should get the fuck out of ireland and let them have catholicism if they so choose. if israel was trying to convert the palestinians to judaism you can damn well bet that things would be 10 times worse off than they are now.

Palestinians were there centuries before the Jews -

And - As there are more Irish in England than in Ireland... Why should the English get out?
Fact: Northern Irelanders voted for the area to remain as an itegral part of Great Britain - IRA are from the South - They want what the North doesn't want!

And didn't the IRA leave a booby trapped car today?
And... As for terrorism - Several countries have been supplying IRA with cash and arms over the years - The biggest contributor coming from the States

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by gothweb


I honestly think you are fanning the wrong flames on this one. You are getting into the (perceived) causes of the conflict, rather than the fact that terrorism is still used in the name of taking Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom into the Republic of Ireland.

I don't really want to fan those flames with you, but I have to correct some basic mistakes in what you just said...

Ireland is an independent state, consisting of a mixture of people who almost all want to be an independent state. Britain doesn't want Ireland.

Northern Ireland is a province of the United Kingdom with a minority who want to be part of Ireland.

Some interesting facts...

1. The United Kingdom doesn't care whether Northern Irish people are Catholic or Protestant.

2. Ireland doesn't want Northern Ireland. They have said so repeatedly.

3. The majority of people in Northern Ireland do not support the IRA, or other Republican groups.

4. Both the Republican and Unionist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland are more like gangs than political groups. They aren't just fighting for Union vs. Replublic, or Protestant vs. Catholic, they are fighting to retain control of organized crime, like drugs and arms.

5. The US has declared "war on terrorism", not "war on terrorism committed by brown people who aren't christian".

Yes and no, some of it is is fighting for representation, yes there are some terrorists as well. Why do the brits insist on marching through irish catholic neighborhoods every year to incite the trouble? our president has declared a war on terrorism, but most of us know he's full of shit and as serious about fighting terrorism as he's serious about getting rid of our use of oil.

[VideoVoyeur]

The IRA will never die.





tiocfaidh ar la

[gothweb]

Originally posted by easyfun


And... As for terrorism - Several countries have been supplying IRA with cash and arms over the years - The biggest contributor coming from the States

I heard a lot about that. Irish immigrants from the US are apparently huge donators to the IRA (and related groups). There are tons of Irish Americans in Boston, but I bet there are more in New York. I wonder what effect 9/11 had on those donations.

I remember watching BBC news late one night, when it was basically on repeat. I got to watch a car blow up pretty much live on TV. A "Republican" group blew it up outside the BBC offices, in a busy part of London. Blowing up bombs in civilian areas of cities is what we call "terrorism".

[VideoVoyeur]

Originally posted by easyfun


Fact: Northern Irelanders voted for the area to remain as an itegral part of Great Britain - IRA are from the South - They want what the North doesn't want!

NOT TRUE by a fucking longshot

The IRA is from Northern ireland, England invaded Ireland many hundreds of years ago, the farthest they got was North Ireland, people in S Ireland WANT N Ireland to be joined, where do you think the IRA came from.


You have no clue, Ill write it up as another kid on gfy...












I like this line the best "IRA are from the South "

[easyfun]

Yes and no, some of it is is fighting for representation, yes there are some terrorists as well. Why do the brits insist on marching through irish catholic neighborhoods every year to incite the trouble? our president has declared a war on terrorism, but most of us know he's full of shit and as serious about fighting terrorism as he's serious about getting rid of our use of oil.

The Orange Order who do the march are Brits - But from Northern Ireland.

[Why]

Originally posted by Digipimp
the big difference is that irish people are a ethnic group whereas palestinians are really just fucking jordanians who are fighting over land that was never theirs in the first place. the english should get the fuck out of ireland and let them have catholicism if they so choose. if israel was trying to convert the palestinians to judaism you can damn well bet that things would be 10 times worse off than they are now.

you fucking ignorant FUCK. as i recall, the isreali;s(the jews) left then came back.... and tried to KICK them out. furthermore the fucking isrealis; dont even fight thier own fucking war, they pay mercenaries from other countries to fight and die in thier places...

you stupid fuckwit

[Why]

on another note you stupid fucking idiot. americans killed the native americans for land that wasnt ours. there is nothing wrong with taking land and aquiring it. its been going on for thousands of years. the isrealis are FUCKED. and so should be slaughtered. Im a red blooded american and i am 100% for the return of whatever land the palestinians want back. pussy fucking isreali mother fuckers.

[VideoVoyeur]

Ahem

(ducks flying rocks)


The Irish Republican Army are not terrorists nor are they considered to be terrorists any longer by the US State Department.


After the Good Friday Agreement that is.


But I for one, join hundreds of thousands of people when i say the IRA never was a terrorist cell, group/affiliation.


Tony Blair (The English prime minister) was quoted as saying

"The only difference between the United States and Ireland is that the United States wont their independance war."


Quoted from CNN and various other news companies.




Ireland was always its own country for many many hundreds of years, in or on around 1200 ad it was invaded by warring factions of what was then England.


There was no terrorism back then, just knights weilding swords.

To this day, that conflict continues.

Does that mean they are terrorists?

If a country invaded the usa today and took over everything from Pennsylvania and up, (the north eastern states)

Would those people then be considered terrorist that fought against the oncomming enemy?

I think not.

Much like the Falkland war, the Falkland Islands are a territory of Englands, yet they support themselfs, just like Ireland does. They have their own goverment just like Ireland does.

When the Falkland Islands asked for their own country status they were told in little words, "no"

When they refused to trade with England and their allies, what happened?
England calls on the USA to invade the Falkland war and remove the "terrorists"

Were they terrorists?

Maybe, maybe not. I doubt it.



Has the IRA ever killed Englich civilians: yes, such are the casualties of war, just as the USA kills hundreds of civilians in EVERY country they go into.

Has the English Army ever killed Irish civilians?:
Ever heard of the U2 song Sunday Bloody Sunday?


There is presently North Ireland and Southern Ireland, here is the breakdown.


South Ireland is NOT under British rule of ANY kind whatsoever.


North Ireland is under TOTAL British rule.

Their exscuse for this ?

"We believe we have a substantial number of threats comming from that part of Ireland to where not having troops in it would be an endangering thing to the people in Northern Ireland and the people in England that agree with the crown"

Margrett Thathcer the old prime minister.


The real reason? Because thats all that England ever really invaded succesfuly.

Ireland is still a very free nation regardless of the English rule, and the Good Friday Agreement was made to ensure that:


The IRA would destroy or make inoperable all of their weapons as a sign of good faith that England would restore power back to Ireland finally after hundreds of years.

The IRA destroyed all of their weapons, and Englands reply was:

Maybe after we see several decades go by without any problems we will THINK about releasing Ireland back to it's own power.



Are the IRA terrorists?

If you say yes, then so was the United States once.

We are both in the same boat, except we won our Independance War.

I won't say what I do for a living on this board, but a few of you know it. Arguing with me about the IRA is like you arguing with god about your eye color. It wont work.

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by Why
you fucking ignorant FUCK. as i recall, the isreali;s(the jews) left then came back.... and tried to KICK them out. furthermore the fucking isrealis; dont even fight thier own fucking war, they pay mercenaries from other countries to fight and die in thier places...

you stupid fuckwit

slow down cocksucker, i never said i was pro israel, i think sharon is a dumb cocksucker personally and so are all the christian right in this country who think israel is cool by occupying lands. i for one think they should abandon all of their settlements and give up their policy of slowing taking more land. but with that being said palestinians aren't a real ethnic group and never were, but in these days of political correctness everyone thinks they need their own country. if they would go ahead and kill off that asshole arafat they could do themselves a lot more, while he sits in his fancy compounds he keeps his own people in suffering and horrible camps.

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by Digipimp

if they would go ahead and kill off that asshole arafat they could do themselves a lot more, while he sits in his fancy compounds he keeps his own people in suffering and horrible camps.

Fancy compound? Last I heard it was reduced to a single room in a shelled out and bulldozed building.

Who is keeping who in camps?

Who is setting up illegal settlements in other peoples territories?

Killing Arafat wont do a damn bit of good.

[Why]

i too laughed on 9/11 like labret, half out of shock, and half out of disbelief that someone finally spit back in america;s eye.

we fucking bully thw whole world around. time someone gone and told us to fuck off.

dont mean im not 100% for the expermination and erradication from the face of the earth any man(along with his woman and children) that wants to give death to anyone that is american.

[directfiesta]

And what about the Americans???

``We got rid of one problem and now we have a bigger one,'' said Mohammed, turning his face away to wipe away tears. ``Even Saddam never did this to us.''

Jassim Mohammed and his family were sleeping out on the front yard - an escape from the summer's stifling heat - when U.S. soldiers stormed in at 3 a.m., kicking the gate open and rushing past them into the house.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...793571,00.html

[Why]

Originally posted by Digipimp


slow down cocksucker, i never said i was pro israel, i think sharon is a dumb cocksucker personally and so are all the christian right in this country who think israel is cool by occupying lands. i for one think they should abandon all of their settlements and give up their policy of slowing taking more land. but with that being said palestinians aren't a real ethnic group and never were, but in these days of political correctness everyone thinks they need their own country. if they would go ahead and kill off that asshole arafat they could do themselves a lot more, while he sits in his fancy compounds he keeps his own people in suffering and horrible camps.

ok, we are on same page. apologies. i thought you were saying you were behind isreal. i was like FUCK that.

[KnownStranger]

Originally posted by gothweb
This question has been floating around for a while, and If the US has declared war on Terrorism, why will we bomb and invade Iraq and Afghanistan for harboring and creating terrorists, but not do anything about the IRA terrists attacking British civilians?

there's nothing significant to gain for the US in Ireland. that's why.

No oil for example...

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by Digipimp


while he sits in his fancy compounds he keeps his own people in suffering and horrible camps.

Fuck! That sounds like the " Sadaam song"....

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by [Labret]


Fancy compound? Last I heard it was reduced to a single room in a shelled out and bulldozed building.

Who is keeping who in camps?

Who is setting up illegal settlements in other peoples territories?

Killing Arafat wont do a damn bit of good.

Yeah his place is fucked up now. Before it was big and fancy, he had tons of cars, tons of money and he keeps his own people in camps. The settlements should all be stopped and all of them should be taken down unless those israelis want to become citizens of palestine, but they don't deserve israeli military protection. killing arafat will do a lot of good, it will allow them to have their civil war and get new leadership

[easyfun]

You have no clue, Ill write it up as another kid on gfy...

You can if you wish -

Fact is what I said is true - The vast majority of IRA are in the South - These are the ones who bravely put bombs in places where innocent people lost their lives -

Of course, there are many in the North, too - But there, they are the minority -
And this kid on gfy actually thinks that as the minority, the Northern ira members are getting a lot of representation for the few mps they have.
And if you agree with the likes of McGuiness (How has a proven record of extreme violence) being a member of parliament, then fine by me.

And btw - I am a 50 year Catholic - And my family comes originally from the South - And yes, I know very well the history of Ireland - And yes, I would like to see the whole country unified - But bombs?
Sorry mate - I can not support people who deliberately plant those things -

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by Digipimp
the big difference is that irish people are a ethnic group whereas palestinians are really just fucking jordanians who are fighting over land that was never theirs in the first place. the english should get the fuck out of ireland and let them have catholicism if they so choose. if israel was trying to convert the palestinians to judaism you can damn well bet that things would be 10 times worse off than they are now.

Do you actually have a clue what you are talking about?

Most of the Jews now claiming Israel as theirs, had Grandparents that were born in Europe. The British made it a protectorate after the the First World War, before then it was occupied by the Ottaman Empire.

The Jews after WW2 shipped as many immigrants as they could get past the British warships. Read the book Exodus. They then started a campaign of terror on the British.

The Palestinians have been there for generaitions, in fact Jerusalem is a Holy Islam City as well as Jewish and Christian.

To answer the thing about the IRA, them we talk to or we organise rallies to send "The boys" money to do things like this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2991676.stm

[Scott McD]

Originally posted by Digipimp
Why do the brits insist on marching through irish catholic neighborhoods every year to incite the trouble?

Ah ha. See that's the thing though.
Where I live just outside Glasgow, this Summer's 'marching season' see's the biggest march of the lot hitting our area.

The trouble is gonna be huge. As soon as the trouble dies down here, marching season comes round and everything flares up again.
Bastards !!!

It was only recently that police stopped a republican walk because they got 'tipped off' that their was gonna be trouble.

No chance of this one getting stopped though.



Tiocfaidh Ar La

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by easyfun


You can if you wish -

Fact is what I said is true - The vast majority of IRA are in the South - These are the ones who bravely put bombs in places where innocent people lost their lives -

Of course, there are many in the North, too - But there, they are the minority -
And this kid on gfy actually thinks that as the minority, the Northern ira members are getting a lot of representation for the few mps they have.
And if you agree with the likes of McGuiness (How has a proven record of extreme violence) being a member of parliament, then fine by me.

And btw - I am a 50 year Catholic - And my family comes originally from the South - And yes, I know very well the history of Ireland - And yes, I would like to see the whole country unified - But bombs?
Sorry mate - I can not support people who deliberately plant those things -

Unfortunately violence is an ends to a means in this day. It shouldn't be your first option, but it is always an option. Everything else should be tried first but if all else fails then blowing shit up is what you have to do. there are no innocents in this world anywhere in any country except for the children who aren't developed enough to make their decisions yet. none of us are innocent only ignorant of our governments as well as the others and the true realities of the world.

[George Bush]

This message board is full of terrorists. I demand an immediate halt to this thread, or I will be forced to liberate you.

Goodnight and God bless the United States of America.

[swedguy]

Originally posted by dav555add


One day you will meet your end

We all will.

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by dav555add


One day you will meet your end

hopefully it will be while I am raping you with a broom handle.

[gothweb]

How many people here who claim to understand the Northern Ireland situation have actually *met* someone who lives in Northern Ireland? The misinformation being repeated in this thread astounds me.

Let me get back to my question...

Imagine a country that was the source of various groups who regularly bombed one of the US's staunchest allies. Imagine that the local government couldn't stop that. Isn't it hyporitical that the US doesn't even talk about using force to solve that problem?

[crescentx]

Well first off you have to ask yourself what "terrorist" is - it's someone who is "against the government" basically. That's one side of the "war on terrorism" but considering that the majority of the "key targets" in this so-called war are still out there, and the result is taxpayers feeding 600 POWs held against Geneva Conventions in Cuba, the "War on Terrorism" is more a convenient way to re-draw the political map of the world in the favor of big US corporations. The IRA right now has no place on this chessboard.

Wolfowitz as much admitted that when he said the primary reason for invading Iraq wasn't terrorism, or WMDs, it was because they were "swimming in a sea of oil."

Just this week Bank of American and JP Morgan began talks with the government to see about "helping rebuild" (read: control) Iraq's financial infrastructure. Every single high-level member of the administration has ties to oil, Condy Rice even has an oil tanker named after her.

I read an editorial in one of the big papers about a month ago and it painted a far more frightening view of what really is laid out. The Anschluss into Iraq was the first step. It hasn't gone nearly as smoothly as planned and by several accounts if some things had gone even a degree more wrong could have started a huge regional war (i.e., Turkey and Iraq against the Kurds, narrowly avoided a Kurdish uprising in Turkey and civil war; missiles from unknown origin (turned out to be all Iraqi if I recall in the end) landing in Iran, this could have caused Iran to enter the war; bombing a bus full of Syrians could have caused Syria to enter the war...)

The objective is to keep it to one country at a time. Iran would be next in line. Huge oil reserves, and they *are* admittedly developing nuclear facilities. This would be a far more difficult "win" to secure since Iran is three times the population of Iraq.

The next, probably Syria. A very dangerous undertaking but if it worked would ostensibly remove Hezbollah's organizational center, though this would doubtless launch a huge wave of attacks by Hezbollah against the US and Israel. They are one of the nastiest groups out there and haven't as yet targeted Americans.

This plan is very simple and I would say simplistic. The war on terrorism right now can achieve two goals *if* nothing goes wrong: securing control of the vast majority of Middle Eastern oil and disrupting the infrastructure of terrorists, the latter, a flawed theory because by their nature they are deliberately structured to prevent just such an attack. The next supposition is that the "flower of democracy" will bloom in all these countries miraculously.

According to this strategy, soon enough, Middle Eastern nations with unfriendly/dictatorial governments would find themsleves facing civilian unrest as their populations looked longingly at the seeds of democracy sprouting up all over the region. Those that weren't toppled would be isolated and/or attacked, overtly or covertly, to remove the anti-American governmental elements.

Notice how the US has pulled mostly out of Saudi Arabia now and is setting up shop in Iraq?

The big question here is what if something goes wrong


-doug