To the billers in the EU region....will you process for a Gibraltar corp? - GoFuckYourself.com

p00p · 06-11-2003, 03:30 PM

I am setting up a European corp possibly in Gibraltar so I can use Visa in the European region. Is a Gibraltar corp suitable to do this? I just about started the process today. But, the company advising me said that Gibraltar is not in the EU.

Will Visa in the Eurpoean region accept Gibraltar based companies if I am using 3rd party such as CCBill, Ibill, Jettis etc?

corvette · 06-11-2003, 03:39 PM

FYI, CCBillEU can process for Gibraltar companies.

Gibraltar is in the Visa EU region. A complete list of Visa regions is here

Let me know if i can be of any help

p00p · 06-11-2003, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by corvett
FYI, CCBillEU can process for Gibraltar companies.

Gibraltar is in the Visa EU region. A complete list of Visa regions is here

Let me know if i can be of any help

Thanks corvett. I will be hooking up CCBill soon....

Shoplifter · 06-11-2003, 05:27 PM

Gibraltar is the best...you are in the EU visa region but not in the EU itself so none of this looming VAT disaster.

Poop can you email me so we can compare some notes on all this?

shoplifter at bukkake.ru

Hansm · 06-11-2003, 07:40 PM

pay me 250$ onetime and you can use my company

roly · 06-11-2003, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shoplifter
Gibraltar is the best...you are in the EU visa region but not in the EU itself so none of this looming VAT disaster.

Poop can you email me so we can compare some notes on all this?

shoplifter at bukkake.ru

I could be wrong, but gibralatar is in the EU i think. I'm not sure if it comes 100% under british rule or not, but i'm sure it's in the EU

Gary · 06-11-2003, 07:43 PM

who you using to set it up?

Hansm · 06-11-2003, 08:16 PM

Be smart man, i dont have anything to say anymore, a friend of me had the same problem, he is using my company now and the wire transfers are going to him, so no paper work for me or tax problems, and everything was solved for 0$ and not much work, only 3 emails.

So i hope you have a friend with a company in the EU?

XYCash · 06-11-2003, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by roly

I could be wrong, but gibralatar is in the EU i think. I'm not sure if it comes 100% under british rule or not, but i'm sure it's in the EU

Even if it's not in the Eu they still have to pay VAT if they sell to EU customers...that is what the July 1st VAT is all about

p00p · 06-11-2003, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shoplifter
Gibraltar is the best...you are in the EU visa region but not in the EU itself so none of this looming VAT disaster.

Poop can you email me so we can compare some notes on all this?

shoplifter at bukkake.ru

I'll e-mail you tomorrow. I'm on dialup now and these pages take about 5min to load....

p00p · 06-11-2003, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hansm
Be smart man, i dont have anything to say anymore, a friend of me had the same problem, he is using my company now and the wire transfers are going to him, so no paper work for me or tax problems, and everything was solved for 0$ and not much work, only 3 emails.

So i hope you have a friend with a company in the EU?

I know nobody in the EU. I am going to open my own company...
What problems did your friend have? Where is he from?

p00p · 06-11-2003, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary
who you using to set it up?

Right now I am communicating with www.insad.ca
Unfortunately they are working with their European branch and the time difference causes delays. I am just trying to find out how much this company charges, how long it takes, and tax implications, yearly fees etc. A member of GFY already used them to set up a US corp with no problems.

If that doesn't work out, I also contacted www.waterlow.com but they haven't replied yet.

Webby · 06-11-2003, 09:38 PM

roly:

Quote:

I could be wrong, but gibralatar is in the EU i think. I'm not sure if it comes 100% under british rule or not, but i'm sure it's in the EU

Gib is not under British rule. It has a government that appreciates the value of offshore

Shoplifter · 06-11-2003, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XYCash

Even if it's not in the Eu they still have to pay VAT if they sell to EU customers...that is what the July 1st VAT is all about

I am on some serious allergy medicine but I am pretty sure this only applies on sales from one VAT EU state to another. For example if you are in the UK and your client is in Austria you must collect VAT.

Gibraltar is a full member of the E.U. but has a derogation from applying VAT. Gibraltar therefore does not have a VAT system and subsequently Gibraltar companies will be unable to register for VAT in Gibraltar. For V.A.T. purposes Gibraltar is treated as being outside the E.U.

See: http://www.deloitte.gi/tax.html

Webby · 06-11-2003, 09:43 PM

Shoplifter:

Correct!

Groove · 06-11-2003, 09:47 PM

Here's some links you might find useful:

http://www.gibraltaroffshore.com/
http://www.offshoregibraltar.com/

psyko514 · 06-11-2003, 09:47 PM

two-parter here:

first, p00p, will you share the results with us fellow canadians? (things like price, time, etc)

and corvett: does CCBillEU have the same interface as CCBill? Same stats area, same affiliate software, etc?
Can a Canadian with a European presence process thru CCBillEU and accept US webmasters?

Webby · 06-11-2003, 09:47 PM

p00p:

If you are looking for a Gib corp.. forget "agents" - go direct to Gib formation agents/lawyers. The rest are just middle men who very often, sadly know very little about what they are selling.

the indigo · 06-11-2003, 09:50 PM

Current Gilbraltar status will change in the future. Tax reform coming soon, maybe they will join the European Union... etc.

Webby · 06-11-2003, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Europe and USA puts a lot of stress on Gilbraltar so they enter the European Union by 2004-5.

??? Considering Gib invested billions into offshore, tis the first I heard they will "enter the EU by 2004-5". There is no plan for this. As for the US putting "stress" on... Gib owes nothing to the US and does not give a fuck. It ain't exactly Grand Cayman

But.. yes, eventually offshores can crumble.. but there are another 150 countries waiting to take up the slack.. so life rolls on

p00p · 06-11-2003, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514
two-parter here:

first, p00p, will you share the results with us fellow canadians? (things like price, time, etc)

Sure, I can share what I find out. May take a few weeks as I am not one to jump into things. Like this, anyways....

Paul Markham · 06-11-2003, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XYCash

Even if it's not in the Eu they still have to pay VAT if they sell to EU customers...that is what the July 1st VAT is all about

WRONG!!

To charge VAT you have to be registered. So how do you register for EU VAT if you live outside the EU?

You have to have a certain turnover, I think it's $50k. You not only charge VAT, you reclaim the VAT you pay out.

This is how myths start on the boards, one guy reads something then everyone repeats it. And before you know it's a fact.

the indigo · 06-11-2003, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby

??? Considering Gib invested billions into offshore, tis the first I heard they will "enter the EU by 2004-5". There is no plan for this. As for the US putting "stress" on... Gib owes nothing to the US and does not give a fuck. It ain't exactly Grand Cayman

But.. yes, eventually offshores can crumble.. but there are another 150 countries waiting to take up the slack.. so life rolls on

I'm talking about zero taxes... except in the Islands, there's no other choice. In 2 years, I'm sure all european countries will have taxes... including Gibraltar. It's a matter of time. Visa doesn't process for Islands corporations.

USA controls everything, including all that offshore shit. Especially since 911.

p00p · 06-11-2003, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
p00p:

If you are looking for a Gib corp.. forget "agents" - go direct to Gib formation agents/lawyers. The rest are just middle men who very often, sadly know very little about what they are selling.

Can you share some leads? I don't have Gibraltar yellow pages.

Groove · 06-11-2003, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
Considering Gib invested billions into offshore, tis the first I heard they will "enter the EU by 2004-5". There is no plan for this.

eurunion.org says:

Gibraltar entered the European Union in 1973 as a dependent territory in Europe, but was excluded, at the request of the government of Gibraltar, from the common external tariff, the common agricultural policy and value added tax. Gibraltar is NOT part of the EU?s customs territory, according to Article 3 (1) of the Customs Code, as amended. Article 28 of the UK?s Act of Accession exempts Gibraltar from the application of EU laws relating to agricultural policy and the harmonization of turnover taxes (VAT). Gibraltar?s customs revenue is also not part of the revenue of the Community.

Article 299 (4) of the Treaty Establishing the European Community (Amsterdam Treaty) makes Gibraltar part of the EU: ?The provisions of this Treaty shall apply to the European territories for whose external relations a Member State is responsible.?

Thus, although part of the Community, Gibraltar is not subject to the full application of EU law and policy. It is effectively treated as a third country as far as trade is concerned. Exports of goods of local (Gibraltar) origin to the Community benefit from the EU?s Generalized System of Preferences (GSP).

http://www.eurunion.org/legislat/ext...pendencies.htm

Webby · 06-11-2003, 10:30 PM

the indigo :

Quote:

I'm talking about zero taxes... except in the Islands, there's no other choice. In 2 years, I'm sure all european countries will have taxes... including Gibraltar. It's a matter of time. Visa doesn't process for Islands corporations.

USA controls everything, including all that offshore shit. Especially since 911.

Gib has as much taxes as any offshore.. kinda limited to around $160 for annual company maintenance blah. Gib has no intention of "giving away" it's offshore services (same with many other OS jurisdictions).

Regarding VISA.. well, hell knows what they may do in the future. I dunno what you mean - "Visa doesn't process for Islands corporations." - tis the first I heard of that, and we have serveral "island corps".

The US controls everything?? I don't think so!! It is a criminal offence for a lawyer or offshore bank to divulge information about a client unless there is a court order to do so - and that is limited to basically money laundering (not tax offences in other jurisdictions!) and drug dealing. So, what does the "USA control"??

Webby · 06-11-2003, 10:46 PM

p00p:

Quote:

Can you share some leads? I don't have Gibraltar yellow pages.

Hi p00p!

What I mean't was.. choose a formation agent/lawyer that actually has an address in Gib.

Here's some stuff:
http://www.gibraltarian.com/director..._formation.asp
http://www.gomezco.gi/
http://www.deloitte.gi/
http://www.gibland.com/incorp.htm
http://www.formaco.gi/

Also Groove mentioned these two:
http://www.gibraltaroffshore.com/
http://www.offshoregibraltar.com/

Contrary to popular myth, offshores as a rule ain't there to rip you off. Lawyers in offshores are well screwed if they care to tarnish their reputations with fraud shit. Anyways, all you want is a couple of papers called a "company" - after that you do whatever you like about banking etc. The directors of an offshore don't need to know your banking arrangements.

psyko514 · 06-11-2003, 10:53 PM

how exactly do we get around the fact that the principal of the company has to be a resident in the region we want to process in?

Groove · 06-11-2003, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514
how exactly do we get around the fact that the principal of the company has to be a resident in the region we want to process in?

Use nominee directors.

Webby · 06-11-2003, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Use nominee directors.

You a proud prossessor of some corps Groove?

Groove · 06-11-2003, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby

You a proud prossessor of some corps Groove?

I was going to partner with a guy in the Dominican Republic some years ago, so we set-up a company in Belize. The business never went ahead, so we let the company lapse.

psyko514 · 06-11-2003, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove

Use nominee directors.

How exactly does that work? I'm assuming I pay someone to be the CEO of my company? Who provides this service?
And what prevents them from "firing" me?

Groove · 06-11-2003, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514
How exactly does that work? I'm assuming I pay someone to be the CEO of my company?

Yes.

Quote:

Who provides this service?

Whoever sets the company-up can arrange this for you.

Quote:

And what prevents them from "firing" me?

Usually the directors will each provide you with an undated letter of resignation. There is also no need for them to have any details of your bank accounts.

Webby · 06-11-2003, 11:09 PM

psyko514:

Quote:

How exactly does that work? I'm assuming I pay someone to be the CEO of my company? Who provides this service?
And what prevents them from "firing" me?

Depends on jurisdiction.. this can range from a Power of Attorney to holding all shares... to holding bearer shares.

Na.. in the Gib instance.. you just pay nominee dirs.. as such they must act in accordance to your wishes. They can't "fire" you :-)

The formation agent/lawyer normally provides the nominee services - tis basic stuff. You can order this at the time of ordering the corp.

Regarding security of funds and bank accounts, nominees don't want to know if there are 20 bank accounts or if there are none... and in whatever country. This is not their concern. You alone control all bank accounts.

psyko514 · 06-11-2003, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove
Usually the directors will each provide you with an undated letter of resignation. There is also no need for them to have any details of your bank accounts.

Interesting... thanks for the details!
So this person becomes the CEO of my company which allows me to register with CCBill or whoever. I pay this person $X amount per year. All checks/wires still go to me, even if I'm in Canada.

Groove · 06-11-2003, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514

Interesting... thanks for the details!
So this person becomes the CEO of my company which allows me to register with CCBill or whoever. I pay this person $X amount per year. All checks/wires still go to me, even if I'm in Canada.

You would have to ask the CC processor whether the checks can be sent to Canada, I do not know. But the companies that set-up offshore companies usually offer a mail forwarding service.

psyko514 · 06-11-2003, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
psyko514:

Depends on jurisdiction.. this can range from a Power of Attorney to holding all shares... to holding bearer shares.

Na.. in the Gib instance.. you just pay nominee dirs.. as such they must act in accordance to your wishes. They can't "fire" you :-)

The formation agent/lawyer normally provides the nominee services - tis basic stuff. You can order this at the time of ordering the corp.

Regarding security of funds and bank accounts, nominees don't want to know if there are 20 bank accounts or if there are none... and in whatever country. This is not their concern. You alone control all bank accounts.

Excellent... thanks to you too for the info.

Last question (I hope): Generally how much do these services cost and are they one-time or annual/monthly, etc?

Groove · 06-11-2003, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514

Excellent... thanks to you too for the info.

Last question (I hope): Generally how much do these services cost and are they one-time or annual/monthly, etc?

This should give you an idea:

http://www.offshoregibraltar.com/fees.htm

Webby · 06-11-2003, 11:18 PM

psyko514:

Quote:

So this person becomes the CEO of my company which allows me to register with CCBill or whoever. I pay this person $X amount per year. All checks/wires still go to me, even if I'm in Canada.

As far as Gib is concerned.. forget the CEO title.. the meaningful one is "director" (this supercedes any CEO stuff). It is the "director/secretary" who have legal responsibility.

I doubt there is any problem with processors crediting "whatever" bank in whatever country. We have bank accounts in some odd places, but never have any problem. Basically the company can open bank accounts in any country it chooses...

spamofon · 06-11-2003, 11:22 PM

Groove · 06-11-2003, 11:25 PM

Webby do you know anything about the pros and cons of a Gibraltar Non-resident Company verses an Exempt Company?

Fidelity Corporate Services recommends Non-resident because:

Quote:

The Gibraltar Companies (Taxation and Concessions) Ordinance of 1967 provides for two other specialized company types in Gibraltar - the exempt company and the qualifying company. However their future status is somewhat unclear due to a pending dispute over the state aid rules raised recently by the European Union. (This does not concern the non resident companies.)

http://www.offshoregibraltar.com/nonresident.htm

Do you know anything about this?

Webby · 06-11-2003, 11:30 PM

Groove:

I'm going blind on this.. need to confirm... but as far as I know the corp that applies to webmasters (unless they live in Gib) is a non resident company. The others don't really apply to net stuff.

Webby · 06-11-2003, 11:32 PM

Sorry.. OK... just checked... it is a non resident company that would apply to most here.

Webby · 06-11-2003, 11:36 PM

It is normal which this type of company to have nominees who are not residents of Gib... often "borrowed" from other OS juridictions.. so at the end of the day, all that actually exists in Gib is an entry in the Companies House records... and the Gib govt collect an annual fee for the priviledge :-)

psyko514 · 06-11-2003, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove

This should give you an idea:

http://www.offshoregibraltar.com/fees.htm

So we're looking at about $535 US to set it up, $260 US a year to run it and the $750 Visa fee on top.

Not too shabby. I'm definetly going to look more into this.

Thanks Groove and Webby for all the answers. I really appreciate it!

p00p · 06-11-2003, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514

So we're looking at about $535 US to set it up, $260 US a year to run it and the $750 Visa fee on top.

Not too shabby. I'm definetly going to look more into this.

Thanks Groove and Webby for all the answers. I really appreciate it!

Dude, there's no Visa fees in Europe. No yearly Visa fees, either.
And, you can use as many EU processors so you can have backups without having to pay each company $750. Knock the $750 off your total.

Webby · 06-11-2003, 11:40 PM

psyko514:

Quote:

So we're looking at about $535 US to set it up, $260 US a year to run it and the $750 Visa fee on top.

What VISA fee? The EU.. least from what I know at the moment, does not apply any VISA fees. Course, that could change sometime!

That is part of the reason we have a "face" in the EU.. there is no need for the sperm count and DNA test....

Groove · 06-11-2003, 11:41 PM

I was under the impression that you could use either Exempt or Non-resident if you do not have a business presence in Gibraltar. And Qualifying if you do have a presence in Gibraltar (note, you can not however sell to Gibraltar resdents).

Webby · 06-11-2003, 11:45 PM

Sorry Groove.. I am only familiar with the non resident corp... we looked at the others, but from what I remember, there seemed to be more record keeping involved and it was not a "true offshore". But this was a few years back - it may have changed a bit.

psyko514 · 06-11-2003, 11:46 PM

Excellent... I wasn't 100% if there's a EU fee or not.

When I make my first million, I'll send you all some cookies.

06-11-2003, 03:30 PM	#1
p00p Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: CanaDUH Posts: 5,125	To the billers in the EU region....will you process for a Gibraltar corp? I am setting up a European corp possibly in Gibraltar so I can use Visa in the European region. Is a Gibraltar corp suitable to do this? I just about started the process today. But, the company advising me said that Gibraltar is not in the EU. Will Visa in the Eurpoean region accept Gibraltar based companies if I am using 3rd party such as CCBill, Ibill, Jettis etc? __________________ ICQ: 316365783 <a href="http://www.hostultra.com/~p00p" target="_blank">TEST</a>

06-11-2003, 03:39 PM	#2
corvette Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: scottsdale Posts: 7,880	FYI, CCBillEU can process for Gibraltar companies. Gibraltar is in the Visa EU region. A complete list of Visa regions is here Let me know if i can be of any help __________________ If you need a good company for check writing services, then check out checkissuing, and for webhosting, check out Phoenix NAP

06-11-2003, 07:43 PM	#7
Gary Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kimmykims couch Posts: 6,110	who you using to set it up? __________________ Up to 35$ per join...!

06-11-2003, 09:47 PM	#17
psyko514 See sig. Join Epic Cash. Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec. ICQ: 214702014 Posts: 22,366	two-parter here: first, p00p, will you share the results with us fellow canadians? (things like price, time, etc) and corvett: does CCBillEU have the same interface as CCBill? Same stats area, same affiliate software, etc? Can a Canadian with a European presence process thru CCBillEU and accept US webmasters? __________________ Bad Girl Bucks - 50% Revshare through CCBill. Promote BrandyDDD, Pixie's Pillows, Action Allie and more! Phoenix Forum Pics \| Webmaster Access Montreal pics email: psyko514(a)gmail.com \| icq: 214-702-014

06-11-2003, 09:50 PM	#19
the indigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: North America Posts: 2,016	Current Gilbraltar status will change in the future. Tax reform coming soon, maybe they will join the European Union... etc. Last edited by the indigo; 06-11-2003 at 09:59 PM..

06-11-2003, 05:27 PM	#4
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,725	Gibraltar is the best...you are in the EU visa region but not in the EU itself so none of this looming VAT disaster. Poop can you email me so we can compare some notes on all this? shoplifter at bukkake.ru

06-11-2003, 07:40 PM	#5
Hansm Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 871	pay me 250$ onetime and you can use my company

06-11-2003, 08:16 PM	#8
Hansm Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 871	Be smart man, i dont have anything to say anymore, a friend of me had the same problem, he is using my company now and the wire transfers are going to him, so no paper work for me or tax problems, and everything was solved for 0$ and not much work, only 3 emails. So i hope you have a friend with a company in the EU?

06-11-2003, 09:43 PM	#15
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Shoplifter: Correct!

06-11-2003, 09:47 PM	#16
Groove Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,852	Here's some links you might find useful: http://www.gibraltaroffshore.com/ http://www.offshoregibraltar.com/

06-11-2003, 10:53 PM	#28
psyko514 See sig. Join Epic Cash. Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec. ICQ: 214702014 Posts: 22,366	how exactly do we get around the fact that the principal of the company has to be a resident in the region we want to process in? __________________ Bad Girl Bucks - 50% Revshare through CCBill. Promote BrandyDDD, Pixie's Pillows, Action Allie and more! Phoenix Forum Pics \| Webmaster Access Montreal pics email: psyko514(a)gmail.com \| icq: 214-702-014

06-11-2003, 11:22 PM	#40
spamofon Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,999

06-11-2003, 11:30 PM	#42
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Groove: I'm going blind on this.. need to confirm... but as far as I know the corp that applies to webmasters (unless they live in Gib) is a non resident company. The others don't really apply to net stuff.

06-11-2003, 11:32 PM	#43
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Sorry.. OK... just checked... it is a non resident company that would apply to most here.

06-11-2003, 11:36 PM	#44
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	It is normal which this type of company to have nominees who are not residents of Gib... often "borrowed" from other OS juridictions.. so at the end of the day, all that actually exists in Gib is an entry in the Companies House records... and the Gib govt collect an annual fee for the priviledge :-)

06-11-2003, 11:41 PM	#48
Groove Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,852	I was under the impression that you could use either Exempt or Non-resident if you do not have a business presence in Gibraltar. And Qualifying if you do have a presence in Gibraltar (note, you can not however sell to Gibraltar resdents).

06-11-2003, 11:45 PM	#49
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Sorry Groove.. I am only familiar with the non resident corp... we looked at the others, but from what I remember, there seemed to be more record keeping involved and it was not a "true offshore". But this was a few years back - it may have changed a bit.

06-11-2003, 11:46 PM	#50
psyko514 See sig. Join Epic Cash. Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec. ICQ: 214702014 Posts: 22,366	Excellent... I wasn't 100% if there's a EU fee or not. When I make my first million, I'll send you all some cookies. __________________ Bad Girl Bucks - 50% Revshare through CCBill. Promote BrandyDDD, Pixie's Pillows, Action Allie and more! Phoenix Forum Pics \| Webmaster Access Montreal pics email: psyko514(a)gmail.com \| icq: 214-702-014