wtf did i ever do to you guys???





































j/k ..... what? you think yall can crack on me and i cant?? LOL!!

Can i ask for spam?

What exactly is this guarentee?

LOL :),

Actually, I was a guy doing a project with Larry Flynts son or something. Not flytns fault at all, but this guy was a total dick head..

On another point, we strive for excellent customer service at webinc.com, we belive that if the customer gets what he or she wants, is happy, he or she will be back and refer others back..

It's all about the service you give. Sure alot of ppl might have to wait a month or more for us to start on the project, but we do let them know ahead of time
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wtf did i ever do to you guys???

I must admit I hate other designers, I don't like hardly any of them.

Only 2 I think are "good".

Majority of designers out there do not know there value and the destruction they have caused on a valuable profession that is an incredible segment for the industry. The profession yeilded easily 6 figure incomes back in the day.

Now there are Pseudo designer's and posers everywhere with no respect for what there "services" generate or how hard they work for a measily 5 bucks. They leave the businessmen agrivated by building shit that does nothing often enough, they copy tours other peoples tours and resell em. Overall it is safe to say a majority of professional businessmen regard designers as the scum of the industry since they undersell themselves so badly.

It is odd to laugh and cry at the same time. However everytime I see a "designer" posting 20 banners for 5 bucks. What a dick, what a loser, what an idiot is all I can think.

Hi Alien,

damm I hope our company is one of the 2 you like :)

Well said though, to be ohnest I know personally that most of our site designs are worth more coin, i.e. 2k, 2500.00, etc. but in this ever changing market and bad economy, what can we do. Sure we have competition to worry about, etc.

People used to get pissed at me saying, Todd WTF are you doing selling 100 banners for $799.00, I said well out of 9 people on the team, we have 2 banner ppl who only do banners and ads, I want to get part of this market share.
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Only 2 I think are "good

hmm on another note ...

a graphics guy im using (wont name him) is doing a project for a certain site for me.

Today i went into his "clients" folder on his domain to see the status (he lets us go look)

Well in there i see this ...

/rich/project.html
/dan/project.html
/mike/project.html


Obviously all clients of his .... i found a site in another clients folder (ok i was nosey, sue me) and it had same sponsor, color, theme, and site name as the one he is making for me!

Basically all he did was change the layout for this other guy.


I have not confronted him about that, and im sure theres a reason or whatever.

BUT .... how does a customer prevent this?

How do i know your going to make me a $1k splash, and not change a few words and hand it to someone else?

Really, well said. If you go onto forums like WHT, the "designers" work for $5 for a complete layout. Then other potential clients think that $5 is close to the industry standard.

If you hit http://www.lumyr.com there is a popup that talks about it.

Essentially though I sit down (or cyber sit as it were) with each client before I do a job and work out what they are shooting for with conversion and/or retention and when we agree on a number that is realistic to their traffic base and amount of content, then I work the design and if needed reqork it or do another one or whatever it takes to meet your targetted goals. I will advise every step of the way on what elements I think need to be there and why and especially with members areas I can go into specific content types that increase user response and make the iste more sticky. If I wasn't close every first time, I couldn't do this obviously or I'd be buried in redos. Also sometimes I get clients who want to pay the lesser fee and just get graphic work done to spec without any guarantee because they know their own specs will convert/retain just fine.

So to put it in as samll a nutshell as possible, hiring me to do a design on the guarantee is kinda like having a temporary business partner with a shit ton of experience who is willing to share everything he knows so you make money.

Is that spammy enough for ya? =]

Lill,

that is bs totally, not the part about they look the same, well that is too, but for you to deal with, but for you to be able to see in his work dir. this designer should get a clue. People want there designs usually private until they release them to the public, webmasters, etc.

I will admit in the past when we did a portfolio update, we did include a couple of projects, that we later took out due to them not being released yet, our mistake and the client didn't make a big deal about it.

ahem

This logic and hate can be pointed to any part of any industry.

I also work in finance for wells fargo. I can say i HATE amaeriquest for offering lowerr ates than us ... but thats life, and thats what keeps the market competitive.

I cant even sell my DVD collection on ebay because of the competition ... they sell so cheap i cant get rid of mine for a profit.


Would fit into any part of any business ..... thats life man.

Fact is, if im an out of work designer, or script kiddie ... im going to work for peanuts if needed to feed my kids.

:2 cents:

Well, if the customer knows about this, if I were the client, I would immediately discuss this matter with the designer.

I can't believe this guy didn't use a client extranet like a professional would.

Alien, you are welcome at my house any time!

At the time i think i was his only client, there was only:

/rich

And no other names, so i think he didnt mind letting me have the URL. I think he doesnt remember i had it though, lol

Maybe i shouldnt have gone into /root .... but since i did, and i saw what i did .... he now has a problem on his hands when i talk to him.

However im farely easy going (sometimes too much so) that id prolly let him slide even if he did mirror it for another client ... lol im sooo soft!

Mark,

you know bro we have gone back and forth over the years on this guarentee thing.

Wasn't it something like 1-750 or 1 / 1000 or something. Hey, sure it's a good idea, but it's not like your offering 1/100 or 1/250.

You can't control someones good traffic, or bad traffic. We have had tons of our designs in the top 10 / top 20 converting out there. This is brain science, our project manager and team knows what works, usually. We have had a couple of clients in the past that couldn't do well with our design. I don't know forsure if it was us, him, his traffic, etc. Case by case basis I guess

although he is a great designer, not sure he is a professional designer by trade.

I asked him how much for a free site, he told me $45 each ... i said id take 75 of them, lol

Not sure he expected that kind of order, but i really liked his work.

For sure 100%! I know that you wouldn't come to the boards and "out" someone without giving them a good amount of time.. And when you do, it's good to know who's honest and who isn't. The designers far too often fall prey to thieves just like anyone else on that end of the business.

Vengeful can be sexy though, although I've proven my tendancy to like assholes hahaha. :P

Wanna ICQ me for a quote while we are at it?

ICQ - 175171926

Thanks.

well, this is an interesting topic.... but I got work to do, so I'm out.

my bottom line for designers on this is:

Your clients are your lifeblood. Treat them well and they will reciprocate. (In most cases). But that doesn't mean you need to let yourself be walked on like a filthy man whore either. Do good work. Even if it takes you a little longer than the next guy. A fast and furious piece of shit isn't going to help you or your client in the long run. Lastly, be humble. Never forget that there's always someone out there that's hungrier than you. :)

you HE-BITCH


lol nice post though, makes sense for both sides of the fence.

Mistress,

good comments, but I think giving a ceartain amount of time is diff. with most companies.

I will easily goto the boards if it has been 2-3 weeks past due on the clients project. Client recieved completed approved project, client didn't pay or even ask for an extention. not to be stuck up, but I have a solid rep in this industry since 1994, and If I come out and say someone didn't pay, well let the chips fall I guess.

I would only come out to the boards after many emails, etc, etc. but see I am no designer, I run the company and do sales, I treat it like a business. Alot of designers on there own aren't the best at the business side of it.. That is why we are a little different.

So true Amp :)
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Your clients are your lifeblood. Treat them well and they will reciprocate. (In most cases). But that doesn't mean you need to let yourself be walked on like a filthy man whore either. Do good work. Even if it takes you a little longer than the next guy. A fast and furious piece of shit isn't going to help you or your client in the long run. Lastly, be humble. Never forget that there's always someone out there that's hungrier than you.

hmm on the same topic ...

I used a well known designer from this board (again nameless)

Payment was made on conditions of a decent turnaround for a gallery (yes a single gallery)

Was not delivered for almost 4 months!


Not knocking him, whatever .... im not in business of knocking people. BUT ... how can someone operate a business like that?

Not replying to emails or ICQ's, totally disaperes for months .... then shows up to say "yep its up next on my list" every once in a while?! LOL!!!!


If he didnt have some awsome work, id prolly never go back to him again, and id have outed him here a long time ago.


But he gave serious discounts, and he does great work ... so he becomes "designer X"

figured id post here rather than starting a new thread.

Anyone have decent prices on premium AVS designs?

Dont just tell me youll do it even though you never done one before ... im looking for AVS experience here!


ICQ - 175171926

No reputation? No references? No portfolio? NO DEAL!

Business manuevers, decisions what have you are still contained in the medium that stimulates the eyes and ears of a focused audience that have a desire. People "See" and "Feel" and "Hear" things. Designers, artists are the only ones that are the conduit that entices an audience to take action.

Would coke sell as good if it were in a black can? Would it even taste better if only the businessmen made the mixtures?
Would your vision of what coke is be what it is without the commercial's that portray it?

A business is literally nothing without a concept of design behind it other than the exception of it being a pipe dream. That is until the designer steps in. Whether he be the individuale technically inclined or creatively astute he is the one that takes a dream to reality. Business is indeed an art form as well make no mistake in its own ways of numbers and trends but they are nothing without designers actiavely plunking away at infinate things in infinate places.

A car fender, a Monitor, a camara. Even a simple bolt or creative advertisement for video or audio.
Someone makes those things real and its not the money that does it alone. Its not the business man that makes it real or tangible, it is only his vision and will that a designer must interpret to make a reality.

Understand the principal of where respect should be paid for each type of individual. The businessman should not be so eager to rip a designer into the gutter no matter how hard the designer begs for it.

VERY well said. :thumbsup

Communication is the key. If the client can?t express his/her ideas before the design process?? I usually say if I am going to design your site (mainstream) who are your competitors and what sites you do like that has nothing to do with your biz. What are your favorite colors? And so on. My bottom line is saying you and your competitors are going to be looking at it the most so I want you to be happy.

After pre approved comps, if the person wants to play ?art director? no problem. My hourly fee just doubled.

1/3 ,1/3, 1/3 or 50/50 with a kill fee in my contracts.


Looks like AdultNex has the best deal go on right now: 25/25/25 or 50/50 upfront payment.
:)

Oh agreed if I just did a flat number it wouldn't work. Some guys are flooding TGP traffic or on the retention side, some guys have like 2 feeds and want 40% trial conversion. That's why the guarantee has evolved over the years and I sit down and do a realistic but positive assesment with everyone who asks for the guarantee. The one thing that I can pretty much flat guarantee without looking at anything is anything I do will increase conversion or retention. But people like solid numbers before we go so we have to talk turkey first.

Good words man. And your work always impresses me. =]

Mark,

I hear you man, it's all good.

All that matters really is that your clients, my clients, everyone's clients are happy :)

1/3rd up front, 1/3rd half through and check where you're at to make sure you're both in sync, 1/3rd on completion.

Krl,

too much work and trouble, 1/3, 1/3, etc.

We do the work, you approve, you pay..

easy as gold :)

Ive never done that way.

But i have done 50/50, ive done full payment upon completion, ive also done .25 4 times.

interesting post basically you get what you pay for so if u get a cheap design its probably cheap :D

.................................................. ........

sup Alien long time no see hows biz?

not always true.


I can name several grfx guys willing to work for pennies (not literally) basically because they have mouths to feed and havent got any steady contracts.

That doesnt mean they arent as good as the "amps" of the world

I think this is quite true to a large extent. Adult design is very competitive, and really the prices do reflect aspects such as quality of design, reputation, turn-around, trustability etc... There are 100's of Adult 'Designers' thesedays, but really only a handful of them I would say are reputable, and IMHO its worthwhile paying for them so you get a site with good english, within the designated time frame, that actually looks half decent! - all of which leads to beter conversions / clickthroughs!