WHY Russia is invading Ukraine

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  • femdomdestiny
    Confirmed User
    • Apr 2007
    • 5182

    #151
    Originally posted by O MARINA
    March 7, 2022
    Nissan has suspended vehicle exports to Russia and plans to cease production at its factory in St. Petersburg soon, the company said on Monday.
    Nissan donating $2.75 million to Ukraine relief
    Japanese automaker operates a factory in St. Petersburg, Russia.
    ‘We have all been moved by the suffering of so many people and families – including members of our own Nissan family.’
    Damn...Kuril islands are now lost forever.
    Femdom Destiny


    --------------------------------------------
    ICQ: 463-630-426
    email: webmaster(at)femdomdestiny.com

    Comment

    • MaDalton
      I am Amazing Content!
      • Feb 2004
      • 39861

      #152
      Originally posted by k0nr4d
      Probably, but some of it just seems so unbelievable like him being lied to about the state of the army. Were they hiding the soviet tanks when he visited?
      here's another example - from today

      https://twitter.com/christogrozev/st...59074653024259

      they are using store bought Motorola radios for communication, everyone can listen to them

      and they are getting scrambled

      technically it's the worst invasion in military history, the only reasons they are still there are the sheer numbers and the fact they are shooting at everything and everyone.
      AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003
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      Comment

      • O MARINA
        I'm clockin' ya, Versace shade watchin' ya
        • Mar 2003
        • 13796

        #153
        Originally posted by femdomdestiny
        Damn...Kuril islands are now lost forever.

        good one.
        New thread coming soon "WHY Japan wants Kuril Islands"
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOuCa_f20DY

        Comment

        • Biggie Smalls Web Writing
          Confirmed User
          • Aug 2011
          • 3993

          #154
          Originally posted by MaDalton
          still has a better inside knowledge than anyone posting on GFY
          Originally posted by MaDalton

          technically it's the worst invasion in military history, the only reasons they are still there are the sheer numbers and the fact they are shooting at everything and everyone.
          Your 2 last posts are just ridiculous

          and again

          Lets just assume that Russian didnt think it through and that one day Putin woke up and said: ''Lets fucking attack Ukraine and the rest of the world''

          Skype: bzivkovic88 - Email: orders at xxxtranslations.com - ICQ: 618 800 215

          Comment

          • Sid70
            Downshifter
            • Dec 2002
            • 16413

            #155
            I hope Paxum freezes the cards that belong to Russians ASAP in case they haven't done it yet.
            Русня, идите нахуй!

            Comment

            • Sid70
              Downshifter
              • Dec 2002
              • 16413

              #156
              Originally posted by k0nr4d
              I don't think it's a matter of people supporting aggression, I think it's more a matter of media bullshitting and propaganda coming from both sides. Here is the problem for me...

              I keep hearing how many Russian soldiers killed, how many civilians killed, but I have not read on any news site here how many UA soldiers were killed. Our media is spun in a way to make it sound like Russia is getting it's ass handed to them, which I find a bit hard to believe.

              Photos and videos of captured Russian soldiers that may be Ukrainian for all we know (or maybe they are captured Russians), and it's mostly young guys that look like they were picked up while plowing a field in some Siberian village.

              I keep reading how Russians are killing many civilians, but if the civilians are getting guns then are they counting those deaths as civilians or combatants?

              I keep reading how Russia is indiscriminately bombing civilian targets and apartment blocks, yet there are only 351 civilians dead? Giving the amount of bombing and fighting in urban areas that are not completely evacuated (since only 1,5 million people left that country so far out of 44 mil population) - that does actually sound like they are avoiding hitting infrastructure or civilian deaths. There is still power and internet pretty much everywhere. You can view webcams in most of the cities.

              Now on the other side you have videos coming out of Russia saying the UA people are greeting them as saviors, you have weird (possibly green-screen) video of Putin with flight attendants for some reason, etc.

              Now, I am not supportive of Putin by any means but you cannot really be surprised that people start to wonder if something is up when so much of what you hear is so manipulated. I honestly cannot even form an opinion on this topic anymore because I cannot believe a word the news says.

              In other news, 922k refugees in Poland alone so far. We'll probably break a million today or tomorrow.
              Do you know you sound like a programmer? Oh, you are a programmer.
              Русня, идите нахуй!

              Comment

              • Sid70
                Downshifter
                • Dec 2002
                • 16413

                #157
                Cut the BS and stop doing business with Russians.
                Русня, идите нахуй!

                Comment

                • beavr
                  Confirmed User
                  • Sep 2015
                  • 563

                  #158
                  Originally posted by Sid70
                  Cut the BS and stop doing business with Russians.
                  This ☝️

                  Every dollar sent to russia fuels evil economy that is looking to bomb civilians and support shitty dictators all over the world.

                  russian have to protest or get out of russia not to be a part of that
                  VR porn is SexLikeReal.

                  Big money in VR porn those days

                  Comment

                  • askjoe
                    Confirmed User
                    • Dec 2012
                    • 194

                    #159
                    Originally posted by k0nr4d
                    Interesting read but at this point if the guy's been out of politics since 2000 he's pretty much LARPing.
                    Some people take every opportunity to look smart. As you can see in the previous entries,
                    the resistance to knowledge is generally very strong here.






                    Originally posted by MaDalton
                    they are using store bought Motorola radios for communication, everyone can listen to them


                    Sure. Source Ukrainian intel
                    It is the same propaganda as the messages of a dead soldier to his mother via his cell
                    phone. Apart from the fact that soldiers were not allowed to take their phones with them.
                    Or "Ghost of Kiev" the jet that killed several other soldiers (btw proven: it was image
                    from a computer game ) . Someone came also with some ufo story.I wonder
                    you didn´t mention it.

                    Equipment_of_the_Russian_Ground_Forces


                    Since I feel sorry for you, I'll help you expand your knowledge (Yes i fight resistence ). Watch the lecture of
                    Daniel Ganser, a historian with facts and evidence, which is accessible to everyone.

                    Let's start with the coup of the Ukrainian government in 2014
                    [German (with ENG subs)]

                    Sniper did the coup not citizens



                    Originally posted by MaDalton
                    .
                    When you have seen and understood it. I already have the next one.
                    If there is no interest and the resistance to knowledge is too great,
                    I wish you all the best.

                    Comment

                    • Jesus H Christ 2.0
                      So Fucking Banned
                      • Dec 2021
                      • 150

                      #160
                      Originally posted by Sid70
                      I hope Paxum freezes the cards that belong to Russians ASAP in case they haven't done it yet.
                      Curious why are you are punishing the people of Russia who pretty much agree with you and can do nothing to their president except go to jail.

                      Doesn't that make you just as bad as the Russian gov?

                      Comment

                      • Sid70
                        Downshifter
                        • Dec 2002
                        • 16413

                        #161
                        Originally posted by Jesus H Christ 2.0
                        Curious why are you are punishing the people of Russia who pretty much agree with you and can do nothing to their president except go to jail.

                        Doesn't that make you just as bad as the Russian gov?
                        "People"? Are you serious?
                        Русня, идите нахуй!

                        Comment

                        • Jesus H Christ 2.0
                          So Fucking Banned
                          • Dec 2021
                          • 150

                          #162
                          Originally posted by Sid70
                          "People"? Are you serious?
                          yes, why are you advocating any form of business depravation for any Russian who had or cannot do anything about it? Accept go to jail? ...also, what about those Russian protestors sitting in jail right now. What about them? Fuck em'?

                          Comment

                          • Sid70
                            Downshifter
                            • Dec 2002
                            • 16413

                            #163
                            Originally posted by Jesus H Christ 2.0
                            yes, why are you advocating any form of business depravation for any Russian who had or cannot do anything about it? Accept go to jail? ...also, what about those Russian protestors sitting in jail right now. What about them? Fuck em'?
                            Oh noes, you don't know shit, and guess what, I am not spending time here to educate you.
                            Русня, идите нахуй!

                            Comment

                            • Jesus H Christ 2.0
                              So Fucking Banned
                              • Dec 2021
                              • 150

                              #164
                              Originally posted by Sid70
                              Oh noes, you don't know shit, and guess what, I am not spending time here to educate you.
                              yeah, that's what I thought. You are just another tool. It's a simple question.

                              Comment

                              • Sid70
                                Downshifter
                                • Dec 2002
                                • 16413

                                #165
                                Originally posted by Jesus H Christ 2.0
                                yeah, that's what I thought. You are just another tool. It's a simple question.
                                Go live in Ukraine for 40 years as I did, you will have all the answers.
                                Русня, идите нахуй!

                                Comment

                                • Jesus H Christ 2.0
                                  So Fucking Banned
                                  • Dec 2021
                                  • 150

                                  #166
                                  Originally posted by Sid70
                                  Go live in Ukraine for 40 years as I did, you will have all the answers.
                                  Look, I am not asking you to educate me. Just answer (if you can) those simple questions.

                                  Comment

                                  • O MARINA
                                    I'm clockin' ya, Versace shade watchin' ya
                                    • Mar 2003
                                    • 13796

                                    #167
                                    Leo DiCaprio = Original Gangster, My Odessa Paisan, My Comrade

                                    March 8, 2022
                                    Hollywood superstar, has transferred ten million US dollars to the Ukrainian government as the war rages on between Russia and Ukraine.
                                    It is noted that DiCaprio, who has Ukrainian roots through his maternal grandmother, has strongly condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine – joining a huge number of other celebrities around the world to have done so.
                                    Leonardo DiCaprio has donated $10 USD million to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the highest amount of donations provided to the country so far.





                                    That's just the way it is

                                    Comment

                                    • Grapesoda
                                      So Fucking Banned
                                      • Jul 2003
                                      • 46238

                                      #168
                                      Originally posted by beavr
                                      This ☝️

                                      Every dollar sent to russia fuels evil economy that is looking to bomb civilians and support shitty dictators all over the world.

                                      russian have to protest or get out of russia not to be a part of that
                                      That's why the West buys oil from putin

                                      Comment

                                      • Yanks_Todd
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Aug 2003
                                        • 2493

                                        #169
                                        Originally posted by Jesus H Christ 2.0
                                        Look, I am not asking you to educate me. Just answer (if you can) those simple questions.
                                        I will answer. I think what we learned from the 1930s/40s is that this type of gross breaking of international law needs to be met as harsh as possible as quickly as possible. Choosing a few pain points for a few people will not change the direction of this conflict, what might change it is inflicting economic and cultural pain everywhere all at once with the goal of quickly waking up the most people. 100 people protesting will result in 100 jail cells filled. 500k people can not be arrested. That could can change things. I am aware that many of Putin's supporters will not be affected by these sanctions and will not get western news which while not perfect is still more accurate. And they don't have Paxum cards.

                                        What do you believe the answer should be? WWIII? Light sanctions that have no affect? I don't know the answer either, but I feel like if Putin and his supporters want to act like it is 1912 and take over a neighbor then they get to live by themselves in a 1912 like world or demand to be part of the modern world and act like it.
                                        Todd Spaits - Co-founder -YanksCash
                                        Premium ad-packages available - Skype for details - tmspaits

                                        Comment

                                        • Brian mike
                                          #Alberta51
                                          • Oct 2014
                                          • 8735

                                          #170
                                          Originally posted by O MARINA
                                          Leo DiCaprio = Original Gangster, My Odessa Paisan, My Comrade

                                          March 8, 2022
                                          Hollywood superstar, has transferred ten million US dollars to the Ukrainian government as the war rages on between Russia and Ukraine.
                                          It is noted that DiCaprio, who has Ukrainian roots through his maternal grandmother, has strongly condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine – joining a huge number of other celebrities around the world to have done so.
                                          Leonardo DiCaprio has donated $10 USD million to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the highest amount of donations provided to the country so far.





                                          That's just the way it is
                                          F*ck Leonardo DiCaprio Globalist WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM AKA Klaus schwab puppet Muther F*cker
                                          Are you all brainwashed and stuck in mainstream media ?


                                          in the mean time




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                                          • Jesus H Christ 2.0
                                            So Fucking Banned
                                            • Dec 2021
                                            • 150

                                            #171
                                            Originally posted by Yanks_Todd
                                            I will answer. I think what we learned from the 1930s/40s is that this type of gross breaking of international law needs to be met as harshly as possible as quickly as possible. Choosing a few pain points for a few people will not change the direction of this conflict, what might change it is inflicting economic and cultural pain everywhere all at once to quickly wake up the most people. 100 people protesting will result in 100 jail cells filled. 500k people can not be arrested. That could change things. I am aware that many of Putin's supporters will not be affected by these sanctions and will not get western news which while not perfect is still more accurate. And they don't have Paxum cards.

                                            What do you believe the answer should be? WWIII? Light sanctions that have no effect? I don't know the answer either, but I feel like if Putin and his supporters want to act like it is 1912 and take over a neighbor then they get to live by themselves in 1912 like world or demand to be part of the modern world and act like it.
                                            Thank you for taking the time. I understand your point and liked the analogy ie., pain points, etc. Also, fully understanding you it must take whatever it takes to accomplish your/the goal. Regardless, of the outcome of others' suffering that has nothing to do with Putin or Ukraine. Like gas prices here in the US for the elderly on fixed incomes or Russians protesting for Ukraine or the innocent thousands of unemployed who worked for the subsidiaries of the oligarch's businesses. All for Ukraine, a failed state ran by a criminal cabal. All I can say is FUCK Ukraine your country is not worth it. You are just as bad as Putin with this attitude. My actual point.

                                            Comment

                                            • k0nr4d
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Aug 2006
                                              • 9231

                                              #172
                                              Pretty bullshit play from the USA today. They gave the 'green light' as NATO for Poland to deliver MIG-29s to Ukraine. Poland offered to instead deliver them free to Rammstein in Germany to USA's disposal so they can pass them along to UA, and then we'd immediately BUY used F16s (only thing available) from them to replace them. Suddenly, 180 degree turn. This is unacceptable and The Pentagon is shocked and appalled, and "Raises Serious Concerns For Entire NATO Alliance"

                                              Seems no one wants responsibility for escalation (same with Russia given that they aren't really entering western UA), but a war is fine as long as it's in Eastern Europe...
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                                              • Sergio
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Apr 2019
                                                • 625

                                                #173
                                                Leo DiCaprio is a good guy!
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                                                • Scrapper
                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                  • Dec 2004
                                                  • 491

                                                  #174
                                                  Originally posted by k0nr4d
                                                  Pretty bullshit play from the USA today. They gave the 'green light' as NATO for Poland to deliver MIG-29s to Ukraine. Poland offered to instead deliver them free to Rammstein in Germany to USA's disposal so they can pass them along to UA, and then we'd immediately BUY used F16s (only thing available) from them to replace them. Suddenly, 180 degree turn. This is unacceptable and The Pentagon is shocked and appalled, and "Raises Serious Concerns For Entire NATO Alliance"

                                                  Seems no one wants responsibility for escalation (same with Russia given that they aren't really entering western UA), but a war is fine as long as it's in Eastern Europe...
                                                  ....because that war has already been fought and won. Putin is going to take the lot now. Watch as he's really going to make the west pay. Come up the 11th is when the real cyber wars start. Russia also just told France and airbus, thanks for all the free airplanes. See how this works? It is all symbiotic. Ukraine needs to surrender right now or it will get far worse for everyone.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • ZTT
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Apr 2019
                                                    • 659

                                                    #175
                                                    Originally posted by k0nr4d
                                                    Pretty bullshit play from the USA today. They gave the 'green light' as NATO for Poland to deliver MIG-29s to Ukraine. Poland offered to instead deliver them free to Rammstein in Germany to USA's disposal so they can pass them along to UA, and then we'd immediately BUY used F16s (only thing available) from them to replace them. Suddenly, 180 degree turn. This is unacceptable and The Pentagon is shocked and appalled, and "Raises Serious Concerns For Entire NATO Alliance"

                                                    Seems no one wants responsibility for escalation (same with Russia given that they aren't really entering western UA), but a war is fine as long as it's in Eastern Europe...
                                                    The way I read it[1], it was a bullshit play from Poland.

                                                    If Poland wants to give its Migs to Ukraine they can fly them to Ukraine.

                                                    Instead they wanted to move the crosshairs of any Russian retaliation to the US/Germany by flying them to Ramstein Air Base.

                                                    And if Poland wants to BUY F-16s, nobody is stopping them. The way it reads in the article below, though, and the Polish government statement it links to, sounds like they wanted F-16s in return for the Migs.


                                                    [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ets-us-ukraine
                                                    __________________

                                                    Comment

                                                    • k0nr4d
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • Aug 2006
                                                      • 9231

                                                      #176
                                                      Originally posted by ZTT
                                                      The way I read it[1], it was a bullshit play from Poland.

                                                      If Poland wants to give its Migs to Ukraine they can fly them to Ukraine.

                                                      Instead they wanted to move the crosshairs of any Russian retaliation to the US/Germany by flying them to Ramstein Air Base.

                                                      And if Poland wants to BUY F-16s, nobody is stopping them. The way it reads in the article below, though, and the Polish government statement it links to, sounds like they wanted F-16s in return for the Migs.


                                                      [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ets-us-ukraine
                                                      The way it's presented here and the way i've read it pretty much everywhere, is that the US was proposing that we give UA the MIGs, and that they would discuss how they could back-fill the Polish fleet because we can't be without 20something planes suddenly - except that the next batch of F16s is going to Taiwan and we'd have to wait a long time. We don't have a thousand planes, we have a war going on over our border and we simply can't be without these planes - thus if the US wanted us to give the planes we need SOMETHING to defend ourselves with.

                                                      Then came the proposal that we are ready to give these migs to the US, for free, immediately and that we are immediately ready to BUY used surplus F16s from the US, and suddenly the US does a 180 saying the MIGs should not be provided to UA.

                                                      So in a nutshell, they tried to maneuver us into a position where we would be the aggressors against Russia and then NATO would tell us to go fuck ourselves, since we got ourselves involved they won't defend us. Poland is militarily even smaller then UA, so russia threatening us and russia having to threaten the US are two different things. Russia can't really take out many US airfields, but they can launch missle strikes on Poland from Kaliningrad.
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                                                      Comment

                                                      • just a punk
                                                        So fuckin' bored
                                                        • Jun 2003
                                                        • 32393

                                                        #177
                                                        Originally posted by beavr
                                                        russian have to protest or get out of russia not to be a part of that
                                                        Like you who has betrayed his motherland the Ukraine when it needs you? You're such a cowardly piece of shit...

                                                        Сука, тебе детям в глаза смотреть не стыдно? Че ты им рассказываешь? Как их папка отважно съебался из страны, вступил в доблестные диванные войска и тявкает что-то из-за границы пока его страна воюет?

                                                        Где ты был, когда президент Зеленский призвал всех настоящих украинских патриотов вернуться на Родину и сражаться? Отсиживаешься в тепле? Трус ты и трепач дешевый...

                                                        Зеленского я очень уважаю, кстати. Мужик. Не зассал в Киеве под бомбами остаться и готов за свою Родину сражаться. Не то что дезертиры, что разбежались как тараканы и клянчат у доброго дядьки из Америки помочь разобраться со злыми русскими, пока они там в европах, сидя на диване с пивком и чипсами, план обороны прорабатывают.
                                                        Obey the Cowgod

                                                        Comment

                                                        • SpicyM
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Aug 2006
                                                          • 4575

                                                          #178
                                                          Originally posted by beavr
                                                          This ☝️

                                                          Every dollar sent to russia fuels evil economy that is looking to bomb civilians and support shitty dictators all over the world.

                                                          russian have to protest or get out of russia not to be a part of that
                                                          Exactly

                                                          no sig, sorry

                                                          Comment

                                                          • SpicyM
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Aug 2006
                                                            • 4575

                                                            #179
                                                            Originally posted by Yanks_Todd
                                                            I will answer. I think what we learned from the 1930s/40s is that this type of gross breaking of international law needs to be met as harsh as possible as quickly as possible. Choosing a few pain points for a few people will not change the direction of this conflict, what might change it is inflicting economic and cultural pain everywhere all at once with the goal of quickly waking up the most people. 100 people protesting will result in 100 jail cells filled. 500k people can not be arrested. That could can change things.
                                                            no sig, sorry

                                                            Comment

                                                            • O MARINA
                                                              I'm clockin' ya, Versace shade watchin' ya
                                                              • Mar 2003
                                                              • 13796

                                                              #180
                                                              Guys please keep calm. Ukrainian Borscht, Chicken Kiev, Moscow Mule and Cold White Russian drinks for everyone !

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Sid70
                                                                Downshifter
                                                                • Dec 2002
                                                                • 16413

                                                                #181
                                                                Originally posted by k0nr4d
                                                                Pretty bullshit play from the USA today. They gave the 'green light' as NATO for Poland to deliver MIG-29s to Ukraine. Poland offered to instead deliver them free to Rammstein in Germany to USA's disposal so they can pass them along to UA, and then we'd immediately BUY used F16s (only thing available) from them to replace them. Suddenly, 180 degree turn. This is unacceptable and The Pentagon is shocked and appalled, and "Raises Serious Concerns For Entire NATO Alliance"

                                                                Seems no one wants responsibility for escalation (same with Russia given that they aren't really entering western UA), but a war is fine as long as it's in Eastern Europe...
                                                                Yeah, now it is becoming questionable if Putin's invading any NATO country would really trigger the mutual defence protocol. We can see Germany being nearly helping Russia do what they are doing to Ukraine.
                                                                Русня, идите нахуй!

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Sid70
                                                                  Downshifter
                                                                  • Dec 2002
                                                                  • 16413

                                                                  #182
                                                                  Originally posted by O MARINA
                                                                  Guys please keep calm. Ukrainian Borscht, Chicken Kiev !
                                                                  That would do, but I can't tell about the rooskies, they should really be getting ready to rot in hell.
                                                                  Русня, идите нахуй!

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • TACNet
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Jan 2009
                                                                    • 452

                                                                    #183
                                                                    Putin knows that the west will do anything to avoid all out war and hes using that knowledge against us.

                                                                    He threatens to escalate if another country provides aircraft to Ukraine because he knows full well that we will back down. And yet he's bringing in troops from Syria and we do nothing

                                                                    We should put every plane we can get our hands on into Ukraine and dare him to attack us !

                                                                    There's no way he could justify attacking USA/Nato to the Russian people. They might be brainwashed but they are not stupid

                                                                    The Russians are just as scared of all out war as we are and we have to remind Putin of that fact


                                                                    TAC Amateurs - The World's LARGEST Amateur Porn Network

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • brassmonkey
                                                                      Pay It Forward
                                                                      • Sep 2005
                                                                      • 77396

                                                                      #184
                                                                      Originally posted by TACNet
                                                                      Putin knows that the west will do anything to avoid all out war and hes using that knowledge against us.

                                                                      He threatens to escalate if another country provides aircraft to Ukraine because he knows full well that we will back down. And yet he's bringing in troops from Syria and we do nothing

                                                                      We should put every plane we can get our hands on into Ukraine and dare him to attack us !

                                                                      There's no way he could justify attacking USA/Nato to the Russian people. They might be brainwashed but they are not stupid

                                                                      The Russians are just as scared of all out war as we are and we have to remind Putin of that fact
                                                                      no! we have enemies that are very quiet. india is one with nukes
                                                                      TRUMP 2026 KEKAW!!! - The Laken Riley Act Is Law!
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                                                                      • ZTT
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Apr 2019
                                                                        • 659

                                                                        #185
                                                                        Originally posted by k0nr4d
                                                                        We don't have a thousand planes, we have a war going on over our border and we simply can't be without these planes - thus if the US wanted us to give the planes we need SOMETHING to defend ourselves with.
                                                                        A military alliance with 30 armies and 3 nuclear arsenals isn't enough to deter Russia, but two dozen rusty Soviet planes are?

                                                                        Then came the proposal that we are ready to give these migs to the US, for free, immediately and that we are immediately ready to BUY used surplus F16s from the US, and suddenly the US does a 180 saying the MIGs should not be provided to UA.
                                                                        No, the US simply rejected a new plan that Poland announced without warning.

                                                                        So in a nutshell, they tried to maneuver us into a position where we would be the aggressors against Russia and then NATO would tell us to go fuck ourselves, since we got ourselves involved they won't defend us.
                                                                        That is total nonsense.

                                                                        The US plan, AIUI, was Ukrainian pilots in Poland would fly the Migs to Ukraine, and Poland would get some F-16s.

                                                                        The Polish government, perhaps hoping the whole idea would fall apart without them being blamed by Ukraine, then announced a different plan that the US, knowing nothing about it, had no option but to reject.
                                                                        __________________

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • ZTT
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Apr 2019
                                                                          • 659

                                                                          #186
                                                                          Originally posted by TACNet
                                                                          we do nothing
                                                                          Alright, apart from the support, sanctions, supplies, weaponry, intelligence, advisors, instructors, "ex-military", what has the West ever done for Ukraine?
                                                                          __________________

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • k0nr4d
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Aug 2006
                                                                            • 9231

                                                                            #187
                                                                            Originally posted by ZTT
                                                                            No, the US simply rejected a new plan that Poland announced without warning.
                                                                            No. First off, Poland didn't announce a plan - it made an offer. Our PM said "Poland would only provide jets to Ukraine directly if all NATO members agree, as Russian officials have threatened countries that undertake such moves".

                                                                            When Poland was going to do it, there was a green light. When the US was to do it, suddenly "The intelligence community has assessed the transfer of MiG-29s to Ukraine may be mistaken as escalatory, and could result in significant Russian reaction that might increase the prospects of a military escalation with NATO". You say they had no option but to reject - but look at WHY they rejected it. Why was it completely fine for Poland to give the planes? Because then the potential war would be on Polish soil and not in the US, and NATO could tell us to go fuck ourselves because it's a defense pact and we "got ourselves involved". Simple as that.

                                                                            What happened here is the state department instigated Poland to offer its planes to UA, but Poland handed back the stick and said "here, you poke the bear".
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                                                                            • k0nr4d
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Aug 2006
                                                                              • 9231

                                                                              #188
                                                                              Originally posted by TACNet
                                                                              He threatens to escalate if another country provides aircraft to Ukraine because he knows full well that we will back down. And yet he's bringing in troops from Syria and we do nothing
                                                                              There are tons of foreign fighters fighting for Ukraine too. Belarussians, western europeans, americans, canadians, etc. They have a whole foreign legion.
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                                                                              • ZTT
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Apr 2019
                                                                                • 659

                                                                                #189
                                                                                Originally posted by k0nr4d
                                                                                No. First off, Poland didn't announce a plan - it made an offer.
                                                                                Yes, that was some "offer". Very charitable. "Offering" to have a target painted on the US instead of Poland.

                                                                                When Poland was going to do it, there was a green light. When the US was to do it, suddenly "The intelligence community has assessed the transfer of MiG-29s to Ukraine may be mistaken as escalatory, and could result in significant Russian reaction that might increase the prospects of a military escalation with NATO". You say they had no option but to reject - but look at WHY they rejected it. Why was it completely fine for Poland to give the planes?
                                                                                Do you seriously think Russia is going to forget the planes are from Poland because instead of flying direct, they had a stopover in Germany first?

                                                                                Because then the potential war would be on Polish soil and not in the US, and NATO could tell us to go fuck ourselves because it's a defense pact and we "got ourselves involved". Simple as that.
                                                                                How is it getting yourself involved if there's a "green light" from NATO?

                                                                                What happened here is the state department instigated Poland to offer its planes to UA, but Poland handed back the stick and said "here, you poke the bear".
                                                                                Right, because Poland never wanted to do it, but didn't want to look like the ones rejecting it. Otherwise they could have simply ruled it out from the start.
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                                                                                • Sexier
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Sep 2010
                                                                                  • 364

                                                                                  #190
                                                                                  While everyone has eyes on Ukraine Putin annexed Belarus without any fight.
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                                                                                  • k0nr4d
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • Aug 2006
                                                                                    • 9231

                                                                                    #191
                                                                                    Come on man, seriously? This is what it comes down to:
                                                                                    MIG-29s flying to Ukraine from Polish airports = Green light.
                                                                                    MIG-29s flying to Ukraine from German airports = "Raises Serious Concerns For Entire NATO Alliance"

                                                                                    Originally posted by ZTT
                                                                                    Yes, that was some "offer". Very charitable. "Offering" to have a target painted on the US instead of Poland.
                                                                                    The "offer" for Poland to deliver themselves came from the US to begin with. Also very charitable, to paint a target on Poland instead of the US.


                                                                                    Originally posted by ZTT
                                                                                    Do you seriously think Russia is going to forget the planes are from Poland because instead of flying direct, they had a stopover in Germany first?
                                                                                    Who knows. If we give them to the US or give them to NATO or whatever, then it's up to them what they want to use it for. Everyone's been giving anti-tank rockets and stuff, so who knows how this would be treated differently. I think the main concern was the combat missions being flow from Polish airports.

                                                                                    Originally posted by ZTT
                                                                                    How is it getting yourself involved if there's a "green light" from NATO?
                                                                                    First of all it was the US not NATO that gave the green light. So why doesn't the US use the "green light" that it gave us for themselves? Why is Poland giving them not escalating and fine but the second the US is supposed to give them it's too risky? Because the retaliatory strikes would be on Poland and not "more important" places like Germany and the US. We are expendable, and exist only to give NATO an extra 24 hours. Poland said that they would give the planes directly only if ALL nato countries agreed.

                                                                                    Originally posted by ZTT
                                                                                    Right, because Poland never wanted to do it, but didn't want to look like the ones rejecting it. Otherwise they could have simply ruled it out from the start.
                                                                                    They did rule it out from the start, the whole initial news about Poland, Slovakia and Bulgaria delivering planes was fake. Ukraine said that we would be delivering more MIGs then we actually even had. This was reporting by our chancellery of the prime minister the day after as fake news, as it was by slovakia and bulgaria. For bulgaria that would have been their whole airforce.
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                                                                                    • Scrapper
                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                      • Dec 2004
                                                                                      • 491

                                                                                      #192
                                                                                      Originally posted by k0nr4d
                                                                                      Come on man, seriously? This is what it comes down to:
                                                                                      MIG-29s flying to Ukraine from Polish airports = Green light.
                                                                                      MIG-29s flying to Ukraine from German airports = "Raises Serious Concerns For Entire NATO Alliance"



                                                                                      The "offer" for Poland to deliver themselves came from the US to begin with. Also very charitable, to paint a target on Poland instead of the US.




                                                                                      Who knows. If we give them to the US or give them to NATO or whatever, then it's up to them what they want to use it for. Everyone's been giving anti-tank rockets and stuff, so who knows how this would be treated differently. I think the main concern was the combat missions being flow from Polish airports.



                                                                                      First of all it was the US not NATO that gave the green light. So why doesn't the US use the "green light" that it gave us for themselves? Why is Poland giving them not escalating and fine but the second the US is supposed to give them it's too risky? Because the retaliatory strikes would be on Poland and not "more important" places like Germany and the US. We are expendable, and exist only to give NATO an extra 24 hours. Poland said that they would give the planes directly only if ALL nato countries agreed.



                                                                                      They did rule it out from the start, the whole initial news about Poland, Slovakia and Bulgaria delivering planes was fake. Ukraine said that we would be delivering more MIGs then we actually even had. This was reporting by our chancellery of the prime minister the day after as fake news, as it was by slovakia and bulgaria. For bulgaria that would have been their whole airforce.
                                                                                      You spent that much of your time on ZTT? ...do what I did and tell him to clown the fuck down.

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                                                                                      • askjoe
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Dec 2012
                                                                                        • 194

                                                                                        #193
                                                                                        Originally posted by k0nr4d
                                                                                        No. First off, Poland didn't announce a plan - it made an offer.
                                                                                        Well....
                                                                                        U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken had confirmed during a visit to
                                                                                        Moldova
                                                                                        a few days ago that the U.S. was negotiating with Poland on a supply of fighter
                                                                                        jets to Ukraine.In return, Poland was to receive f-16s ( free of
                                                                                        charge
                                                                                        ). This was also reported. Therefore, Poland decided to hand them over for free ( To us base ramstein),
                                                                                        but the Americans wanted the Poles to fly the planes over themselves.

                                                                                        The old scam. Hit the wolf and say that was someone else.

                                                                                        btw

                                                                                        US Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs Victoria Nuland has revealed that
                                                                                        Washington is working with Ukraine to prevent biological research centers from falling
                                                                                        into Russian hands. (Victoria Nuland = Fuck EU )

                                                                                        "We ruled out any peaceful use in biological programs in Ukraine," Zakharova stated,
                                                                                        stressing that such laboratories were located near the border with Russia and developed
                                                                                        dangerous pathogens such as anthrax and cholera.

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                                                                                        • TACNet
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Jan 2009
                                                                                          • 452

                                                                                          #194
                                                                                          Originally posted by ZTT
                                                                                          Alright, apart from the support, sanctions, supplies, weaponry, intelligence, advisors, instructors, "ex-military", what has the West ever done for Ukraine?
                                                                                          The point is that nothing we have done so far is going to stop Putin. All we have managed to do is slow him down

                                                                                          Its becoming clear that sanctions will not stop him. He knew sanctions were coming and he didnt even flinch.

                                                                                          The Russian people will not stop him (especially as the vast majority of them support him and those that dont are too scared to say anything)

                                                                                          The ONLY thing that is going to stop him is military defeat and the only way to achieve that is to supply Ukraine with offensive aswell as defensive weapons. That means aircraft

                                                                                          You cant win a war if all you have is defensive weapons and your only option is to dig in and wait for the enemy to attack. Bear in mind that Putin has only used about 20% of his conventional forces so far and once he releases those thermobaric weapons he has, its game over

                                                                                          Ukraine needs to take control of its air space NOW. Then they can start hunting down the Russian forces and push them back


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                                                                                          • ZTT
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Apr 2019
                                                                                            • 659

                                                                                            #195
                                                                                            Originally posted by k0nr4d
                                                                                            I think the main concern was the combat missions being flow from Polish airports.
                                                                                            I seriously doubt there was ever any question of of NATO allowing combat missions from Poland, Germany or anywhere else outside Ukraine. If that happens, NATO may as well just officially join in. AIUI the planes would be based in Ukraine, and it wasn't even going to be NATO pilots delivering them.

                                                                                            Here's another article about it, which again suggests to me the idea was for Ukraine to take delivery of the planes and operate them from within Ukraine (the practicality of that is another matter, and possibly another factor in why it hasn't happened):

                                                                                            In its original, US-conceived iteration, the proposal was a trilateral deal whereby Poland would hand over the MiGs to Ukrainian pilots [in Poland] to fly into their homeland, and the US would then provide some substitute planes.

                                                                                            That proposal, arguably, was not qualitatively different to Nato members providing Ukraine with Javelin anti-tank missiles.

                                                                                            https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...escalating-war
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                                                                                            • plsureking
                                                                                              bored
                                                                                              • Aug 2003
                                                                                              • 4900

                                                                                              #196
                                                                                              i'm not that political, but Russia committed major war crimes when they targeted civilians.

                                                                                              Putin told his troops they were liberating Ukraine from white supremacists. this is revealing:



                                                                                              this is an interesting video too if you haven't seen it.

                                                                                              when they say "worst invasion in history" it is true. poor planning, old equipment, and no clue how to manage logistics for a war beyond their borders (and trains).

                                                                                              this video is a good summary of the war to date.





                                                                                              #
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                                                                                              • ZTT
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Apr 2019
                                                                                                • 659

                                                                                                #197
                                                                                                Originally posted by TACNet
                                                                                                The point is that nothing we have done so far is going to stop Putin. All we have managed to do is slow him down

                                                                                                Its becoming clear that sanctions will not stop him. He knew sanctions were coming and he didnt even flinch.
                                                                                                I don't see how that's clear, when it's only been two weeks. The most important outcome is Western dependency on a criminal regime and its fossil fuels ends up dead and buried.

                                                                                                The ONLY thing that is going to stop him is military defeat and the only way to achieve that is to supply Ukraine with offensive aswell as defensive weapons. That means aircraft
                                                                                                Unfortunately the aircraft are probably going to get wiped out pretty rapidly in Ukraine, and basing/flying them from NATO countries is tantamount to joining the war. It's probably better to continue supplying them with anti-aircraft weapons to deplete Russian air power that way.

                                                                                                You cant win a war if all you have is defensive weapons and your only option is to dig in and wait for the enemy to attack.
                                                                                                I think Vietnam and Afghanistan would like a word.

                                                                                                Ukraine needs to take control of its air space NOW. Then they can start hunting down the Russian forces and push them back
                                                                                                As inept as Russia is, I can't see how a few dozen second hand Migs are going to give Ukraine air supremacy against a country with thousands of aircraft in its arsenal. Again, maybe if that could be depleted by AA weaponry...
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                                                                                                • Scrapper
                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                  • Dec 2004
                                                                                                  • 491

                                                                                                  #198
                                                                                                  Originally posted by plsureking
                                                                                                  i'm not that political, but Russia committed major war crimes when they targeted civilians.

                                                                                                  Putin told his troops they were liberating Ukraine from white supremacists. this is revealing:



                                                                                                  this is an interesting video too if you haven't seen it.

                                                                                                  when they say "worst invasion in history" it is true. poor planning, old equipment, and no clue how to manage logistics for a war beyond their borders (and trains).

                                                                                                  this video is a good summary of the war to date.





                                                                                                  #
                                                                                                  War crimes at this point only apply if you lose. Putin is not going to lose Russia. Plus they do not recognize EU laws. Also, this same principle is why Dick Cheney and GWB are not in jail.

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                                                                                                  • plsureking
                                                                                                    bored
                                                                                                    • Aug 2003
                                                                                                    • 4900

                                                                                                    #199
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Scrapper
                                                                                                    War crimes at this point only apply if you lose. Putin is not going to lose Russia. Plus they do not recognize EU laws. Also, this same principle is why Dick Cheney and GWB are not in jail.
                                                                                                    war crimes are adjudicated by the International Criminal Court at The Hague. no one had the balls to take Cheney or Bush to court over war crimes. we'll see what happens after this one.

                                                                                                    here is a list of war crimes they prosecute:

                                                                                                    https://trialinternational.org/topic...inst-humanity/

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                                                                                                    • Brian mike
                                                                                                      #Alberta51
                                                                                                      • Oct 2014
                                                                                                      • 8735

                                                                                                      #200
                                                                                                      Ukraine is bombing Ukrainians

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