DO NOT read if you haven't seen the Matrix

Originally posted by MattO
spam

Originally posted by asuna
Why did you spoil it?

Originally posted by voodooman
$20 says someone who hasnt seen the movie yet, WILL indeed read this thread.
Its just human nature, predictable as a clock.

So if you do read this, and you were one of those that bitched and cried because of my matrix thread, Stop Crying now.

Originally posted by voodooman
$20 says someone who hasnt seen the movie yet, WILL indeed read this thread.

Originally posted by stevecore


someones $20 richer....

waddup Krosh? where you been lately? you chaos & I need to go out again soon.

Originally posted by jasonir
Krosh, thanks a lot. That made a lot of sense. How did you come to the conclusion that Zion was a secondary OS, and if it is, where does everything actually exist? All the humans connected to the matrix are in the "Real World" where Zion is. No?

Is everything just a computer program?

Originally posted by Lane
I'm a month away from getting my computer science degree.

Originally posted by Alky
having a degree means dick.

his terminology wasn't far off and everything he said made sense, if hes right hes right, if not, oh well. there are going to be tons of theories on this movie for months, we all just have to wait for the conclusion to see who was right.

Originally posted by Lane
I'm a month away from getting my computer science degree.

I think the stuff you just wrote contains too many misused terms. And personally I would not try think everything in the movie as software.

Sorry, right now I'm too lazy to point out every single thing that I disagree with you, cuz I wanna gonna go grab my dinner now.

I repect your attempt to think this way though, but you should combine software and reality in your philosophy, instead going to the extreme to explain every single thing as software related.

peace

Originally posted by playa
nice it made alot of sense now,

those fuckers kept on blabbing their mouths,,

only part i like was when that guy said he like to cuss in french cuz its like "wiping your ass with silk"

Originally posted by MetaMan


stfu,
wow u have a degree and think like the other hundred people around u when u could have just read a book for:

$20
or
spend thousands on a degree,

Originally posted by MetaMan

wait ur tryin to sound like ur smart.

Originally posted by Alky
what terms did he misuse?

Originally posted by KRosh


DUDE

what's up? let's do it ...name the time and place and i am there

Originally posted by MattK
interesting. I figured that the old guy with the beard in Zion was the previous "one", or "one" number 5.

Originally posted by MattK

I think Zion is in the real world, and not a secondary matrix... I think the traitor who tries to hurt Neo in Zion has something to do with the architect, he is a human planted in Zion to stop Neo.

Originally posted by MattK

It is confusing how Neo stopped the sentinels at the end, since he was only supposed to have super powers in the matrix. And the guy who spoke french in the movie had some powers inside the matrix, is he a human like Neo or just another program within the matrix like agent Smith?

Ok all, first I am going to try to clarify the basic argument I see here and then add my ow evidence. The Matrix within the Matrix idea makes alot of sense. First we know the architect is telling the truth about this being the sixth (or at least not the first Matrix). We know this because there are all the programs that have taken a life of their own within the Matrix. If it were the first Matrix there would be very few of these programs such as Oracle, Mirovigian, the twins, etc.

I think that the Matrix is much bigger then we are led to believe in the first one. We now see all these residual old programs. If these programs are in fact old ones that avoided being deleted by the system as Oracle tells Neo then we would expect them to be somewhat powerful (which they are) and also to have some ulterior motives. We would think these programs are trying to regain power.

Now, I think the Matrix within the Matrix idea is right. Evidence for this:
1. Architect tells Neo 1% of people hve some itch (the itch they talk about in part one when they free Neo from the Matrix) and recognize choice and so reject the Matrix. The Zion Matrix so to speak is where these people are sent and they believe it to be the real world. But in fact it is the layer meant to handle them and keep these people from destroying the main layer of the Matrix. It is in essence a subsystem.
2. The One is one of these people who somehow gains greater power. This power is recognized if not created by the machines and is used to flush the system.
3. What I think happens is this. These people reject the Matrix and so are freed into the subsystem which is the Zion resistence program. Here they believe they are out of the Matrix so never realize it is indeed more of the Matrix and not freedom. Anyway, I think more and more of these people are freed into the subsystem and then as the numbers get larger the machines start to worry that perhaps one of them will figure it out or just that the deviant population is too large. When this happens they flush the subsystem and start over. That is the ones job. Zion is flushed, all the rebels are killed except for a small group which begins the process again. The machines have to let some people live to recruit the people who are rejecting the program or else the Matrix could fail.
4. Anyway, it seems to me the Zion subsystem is like the ultimate safety valve. They get people out of the main system who could ruin it and then still have them under control. They kill them whenever the numbers get to large. Remember in the movie when Morpheus says that they have freed more people in the last 6 months then they did in the past 6 years. Obviously Zion begins to get to big and them it is time to get rid of it and start over. The machines can't simply kill all the rebels or they have nothing to do with people who feel the itch and reject the program.


More evidence of the Matrix within the Matrix:

1. Agent Smith goes into the supposed real world in Bane's body. How could a computer program actually go into the real world? I think it is impossible. So, more likely Smith has realized that the supposed real world is in fact the Zion subsystem and thats how he can move into it in Bane's body. He is actually still in the Matrix.

2. Trinity's death. If Trinity really died in real life I don't think Neo could save her. She did not really die however, she only died in the Zion subsystem. Neo's love is so great he is able to bring her back to life. I also think this is where Neo realizes that the real world is only another Matrix. More on this below.

3. Zion: How could there be 6 real Zion's and no one has ever found evidence of the previous ones. Also, if the world is in such ruins how the hell can they keep finding the equipment and know how the build all the machines that run Zion. The ones Neo and the councillor watch and talk about. It seems more obvious the machines set all this up in this subsystem program and then leave it for the next group to find (the group The One chooses.)

None of this is definitive but all this evidence leads down a trail that seems to show the Matrix within the Matrix.

So where does Neo fit in?

Neo is obviously the latest incarnation of The One. He is supposed to help the machines reset the Zion subsystem according to the architect. This would make sense. With his powers he would choose the new people to repopulate Zion but also his power would allow such a small group of humans to function and be able to find new people rejecting the system.

This is supposed to be The One's role, and I believe that in this the Architect is telling the truth.

Neo however is about to throw a wrench into the system. I think that Neo has somehow been able to either amass more power, or use his powers more effectively then any "The One" who has come before him. Evidence: Remember when Mirovigian says to Neo that he is not so powerful and then has 5 or 6 guys all start shooting at once. Neo stops all the bullets and Mirovigian is amazed, like he has more power. Also, at the end of the fight after Neo kills all the henchmen Mirovigian says to Neo, "you are more powerful then the others but I have survived them and I will survive this time." Then Mironvigian runs away from Neo. Evidence 2: One thing people seem to forget. Trinity did die. She is shown flatlining and is dead. The architect is right Neo can not save her. Except, I think Neo then amazes even the architect, he has somehow become so powerful that he can manipulate the Matrix and bring Trinity back to life.

In the end when Neo kills the Sentinels I think he is using his new found knowledge (he got from talking to the architect and saving Trinity.) He has realized that the real world is in fact just another part of the Matrix and so can feel the machines and control them. I think the coma is the result of this. I think he simply processes so much information at once, and comes to such a profound discovery that his mind needs to shut down to process it. Also, if he realizes the Matrix is in the Matrix maybe he is experiencing some negative feedback from his real body somewhere.

Sorry this is so long, but I think it will be helpful to all. It seems to me there is alot of evidence that the real world is a subsystem of the Matrix. All of this evidence together seems to show this.

Originally posted by Lane
the best explanation i've seen so far:

Originally posted by NoCarrier
One thing that makes me think the real world is REAL is agent smith becoming human through Bane.. Remember when Babe cuts his own hand to feel pain for the first time? to bleed, to be truly alive and human.. If he knew the "real" world was also fake, why would he do that?

Originally posted by Lane


maybe he didnt know. it's agent smith, who is trying to get out of matrix as well, and had just discovered the second layer by transferring through the phone

Originally posted by NoCarrier


You don't understand, why would he cut his own hand if he knew this was just another layer?

Originally posted by Lane


dunno.. not sure if it has to do with it... maybe he has some sort of psycho character.. he wanted to kill neo with that knife

but still, look at all the other obvious evidence, rather than that little detail

Originally posted by NoCarrier


The fact remains, Bane cut his own hand to feel humain pain in the real world (because it's the 1st time and became human). It this was another Matrix, he wouldn't even give it a try.

Originally posted by Lane


maybe it's a feature of the secondary matrix? so that people can believe that they are in the real world.

if he was human, how the hell was he the only survivor of the attack?

Originally posted by Lane


maybe it's a feature of the secondary matrix? so that people can believe that they are in the real world.

if he was human, how the hell was he the only survivor of the attack?

Originally posted by NoCarrier


Maybe he gained powers like Neo at the end.

Originally posted by psyko514


maybe cause he's on the side of the machines?
remember they mentioned someone let an EMP go too early?