Processors, Billing Systems! What do you think of Pseudo Free AVSs?

[max.yambo]

Just would like to know your opinion guys about Pseudo Free AVS. Isn't it too risky to deal with this kind of business? Would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

[disco]

i know quite a few guys that runs programs like that, and they all have pretty smoothe operations, low chargeback rate etc.

So I dont see any problems with that - not at all.

/disco!

[max.yambo]

My concern is they usually hide charges from users - that's why it's called Pseudo Free AVS. They say the service is free but it's actually not. And when the user sees the transaction in the statement he gets really angry... this may cause alot of problems...chargebacks, abuses and so...

Tell me if I'm wrong

[body]

Hmm, why will that be so risky???
They will bring you some sales, you are asking as processor correct?
And we all know there is nothing for free, especially porn ;)
The most (all I know and used) sell their free avs membership together with a trial or membership of another paysite and that is mostly announced before the users join. If they don't read what they signup for it is not my or your problem, isn't it?
And they can cancel the trial or the membership and still have access for lifetime or for 1 year, depends on the site.
With other archives,sites they have to pay monthly fees of lets say $29.95. So for the user it could be a cheap way to get porn.
And for webmasters its an easy way to make some fast money.

[body]

Originally posted by max.yambo
My concern is they usually hide charges from users - that's why it's called Pseudo Free AVS. They say the service is free but it's actually not. And when the user sees the transaction in the statement he gets really angry... this may cause alot of problems...chargebacks, abuses and so...

Tell me if I'm wrong

Show me that AVS which doesn't announce that they provide their free ID with a membership or trial, please

BTW, I also promote so called non free avs or aen or whatever you want and have some refunds and this site announce that they cost only 30$/month and there will be no hidden fee,blabla

[disco]

any webmaster can fuck his members if he wants, but there is no reason that these kinda sites do it worse than any other type out there.

Naturally the site should have clear terms, and the cancel button should be put somewhere in the back. But the ones i know all have that. Its normally pretty clear on the signup pages etc.

But well, generally it should be easy for you to monitor, right?
Just look at the chargeback %


/disco!

[Dveron]

What do you think of Pseudo Free AVSs

I think they make me money.

[max.yambo]

Body,

The risk is customers can always go charge their money back. Right? And I think they would do so especially if you first say you're not gonna charge for anything, then you charge for a different paysite which is not what they wanted...etc.. etc.. That's what pseudo AVSs do. FREE AVSs are different. They at least offer free trials.

Anyways, to me it looks like a little dishonest business model..

That's another issue what's cheap and what's not... The problem is - the site promises one thing - and users get totally different things.

[max.yambo]

I think they make me money.

Dveron,

lol sure it makes cause it's easy to say "FREE!" and charge $45.00 isn't it? but when we start getting like 90% complaints from ppl who did not even realize there could be a charge... that's a bad situation...

Naturally the site should have clear terms, and the cancel button should be put somewhere in the back. But the ones i know all have that. Its normally pretty clear on the signup pages etc.

Disco,

Yeah.. but users don't read agreements when they signup for porn. you know what i mean. it takes time to read them but they don't have enough time ;) they realize only when they got charged..


What do processors think though? Please share the opinion

[cotsios]

Originally posted by max.yambo


Disco,

Yeah.. but users don't read agreements when they signup for porn. you know what i mean. it takes time to read them but they don't have enough time ;) they realize only when they got charged..

Pseudo AVS is a AVS that doesnt tell to his customer (on his site) that he is going to charge him for the membership.

Well we have have one our signup form with bold orange color

FreeAdultKey is free for 1 Year with the monthly subscription to
secretpornstars.com $49.99 recurring membership.

If they can not see that that means they are blind right?

[Jizar II]

Originally posted by disco
smoothe operations, low chargeback rate etc.

[max.yambo]

If they can not see that that means they are blind right?

cotsios,

that kind of conversation could've happened between you and me or anybody else who is in this biz. but when you get 60 chargebacks out of 100 - who would you say they all were blind to?

you're talking money. that's it. you got your 100 transactions, you received your $7000 or something from the processor and you're outta here right? you don't really care what's gonna happen then...

And Im talking as a processor here. And my concern is what's gonna happen after you process transactions. Mine, not yours. I would payout all the chargebacks for you.

Maybe I misdunderstood something about AVSs but what I see practically is there's alot of problems with such systems (pseudo ones). That's why I initiated this post - to figure out how do other processors deal with AVSs? And whether they deal at all.

[cotsios]

Originally posted by max.yambo


cotsios,

that kind of conversation could've happened between you and me or anybody else who is in this biz. but when you get 60 chargebacks out of 100 - who would you say they all were blind to?

you're talking money. that's it. you got your 100 transactions, you received your $7000 or something from the processor and you're outta here right? you don't really care what's gonna happen then...

And Im talking as a processor here. And my concern is what's gonna happen after you process transactions. Mine, not yours. I would payout all the chargebacks for you.

Maybe I misdunderstood something about AVSs but what I see practically is there's alot of problems with such systems (pseudo ones). That's why I initiated this post - to figure out how do other processors deal with AVSs? And whether they deal at all.

Then you have to contact PAYCOM , CCBILL ,IBILL and Netbilling and ask them how they work with AVS and not with webmasters,

[max.yambo]

Hm... I just thought some of the processors read gfy. Maybe they would say a couple of words then. And I think there's many ppl here who would also be interested in knowing more about this question.

[assistant27]

if you wanna bill costumers 45$ per month and on join page would say its totally free, no charges.
they will kick you out of business.

and for the end, visa will send you nice letter with 5 digits
which they will ask from you, dont wanna pay it ?

come to usa or uk, wherever your merchant bank is and be arrested for fraud.


sounds like a good business plan..

[cotsios]

Originally posted by assistant27
if you wanna bill costumers 45$ per month and on join page would say its totally free, no charges.
they will kick you out of business.

and for the end, visa will send you nice letter with 5 digits
which they will ask from you, dont wanna pay it ?

come to usa or uk, wherever your merchant bank is and be arrested for fraud.


sounds like a good business plan..

Yes i agree with you . That is a pseudo Free AVS.
On our FREE AVS we say that we bill our customers. So we dont worry.

[Chris Mallick]

Originally posted by max.yambo
Hm... I just thought some of the processors read gfy. Maybe they would say a couple of words then. And I think there's many ppl here who would also be interested in knowing more about this question.

max.yambo?

We read and post frequently to GFY and other boards, so just to let you know, yes, we are here.

I have not quite figured out your deal yet. It looks like you are promoting your closed loop system. That?s cool, but if you are a credit card processor, an IPSP, you better already know the answers to the questions you are asking. Otherwise, as said in this post before, Visa will let you know. BTW: Where are your credit card transactions acquired? Which bank, which Visa Region? How long have you been in the business? Just curios.

The answer to your question, in its simplest form, is disclosure. I don?t care what a site pr program is called ? AVS or whatever. But when a surfer enters his / her cc number, you better disclose what is being charged BEFORE they hit submit. We are called ?aggressive? in our product offerings, but our chargeback ratios (in compliance on all cards) speak for themselves; no misunderstandings from surfers buying our client?s content. We use FTC lawyers and monitor activity closely. Lastly, there is the concept of Gift With Purchaser (GWP) here in the US and I assume in other countries as well. It is simple: Buy this and get this free. It is completely legal and considered acceptable marketing by the FTC, as long as the consumer had proper disclosure BEFORE purchasing.

Just my


PS: I am off for a Mother's Day thing so I won't be able to reply if anyone askes me anything for several hours.

[max.yambo]

Chris,

Thanks for your reply.

The answer to your question, in its simplest form, is disclosure. I don?t care what a site pr program is called ? AVS or whatever. But when a surfer enters his / her cc number, you better disclose what is being charged BEFORE they hit submit. We are called ?aggressive? in our product offerings, but our chargeback ratios (in compliance on all cards) speak for themselves; no misunderstandings from surfers buying our client?s content. We use FTC lawyers and monitor activity closely. Lastly, there is the concept of Gift With Purchaser (GWP) here in the US and I assume in other countries as well. It is simple: Buy this and get this free. It is completely legal and considered acceptable marketing by the FTC, as long as the consumer had proper disclosure BEFORE purchasing.

yeah. but there is always a way to cheat. For example you can either place the info that a user's going to be charged at the very bottom of the page or you can place it in the middle so everybody could see it. And in BOTH cases you did said they had a coming charge.

Officially - yes. It's considered legal and acceptable. But there are real ppl purchasing services. And I guess they would like to be cheated or something. I didn't ask if AVS is legal or not. I just asked your opinion, not an official part of the question.

The questions are (if it's ok ) - Would you consider PSEUDO FREE/FREE AVS a risky business? Would you deal with ones as you deal with regular adult business?

I have not quite figured out your deal yet. It looks like you are promoting your closed loop system. That?s cool, but if you are a credit card processor, an IPSP, you better already know the answers to the questions you are asking. Otherwise, as said in this post before, Visa will let you know. BTW: Where are your credit card transactions acquired? Which bank, which Visa Region? How long have you been in the business? Just curios.

yeah. we already know basic rules how would we even get merchant accounts if we did not. thanks anyway

All the processing's going on in EU mostly. And yes we are a young company in credit card processing business. We've been for 1.5 years in online banking and like a half a year in cc processing/billing.

[genomega]

heh, pseudo. Just wait until some smart ass lawyer gets fucked over with this scam.

[Kimmykim]

Max,
I think you'd do best to leave that market alone until you have a firm grasp of how it works and how Visa etc looks at it. It sounds to me like you are contemplating doing business in the arena but haven't quite gotten to it yet.

[max.yambo]

Max,
I think you'd do best to leave that market alone until you have a firm grasp of how it works and how Visa etc looks at it. It sounds to me like you are contemplating doing business in the arena but haven't quite gotten to it yet.

Kimmy,

Yeah. I think so too. Thanks.