Customer Declined Transactions

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 1
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous template Next
  • lavish_
    Registered User
    • Sep 2018
    • 11
    #1

    Customer Declined Transactions

    I offer a free trial on my website. I'm getting decent traffic and sign-ups, but when the trial is over and my gateway goes to charge the customer, 90% of the time, the transaction gets declined due to issuer declined, insufficient funds, AVS issue, etc.

    I'm guessing it's users abusing the system. Is there any way to avoid this? Has anyone else experienced this? I'm in a conundrum because for each transaction, even if it's declined, I have to pay the transaction fee. So I'm essentially funding these declined transactions and it sucks. Would love to hear your thoughts.
    Tags: None
    • fuzebox
      making it rain
      • Oct 2003
      • 22352
      #2
      A lot of banks decline known high risk acquirers.

        Comment

        • Miguel
          Confirmed User
          • Apr 2004
          • 2978
          #3
          Does your free trial provide limited or full access to content?
          Serious Cash: 27 niche sites - step fantasy, teen, amateur, anal, hardcore, reality
          [Kinky Family]
          [Brutal X] [Fucking Glasses] [18 Videoz] [Teeny Lovers] [Sell Your Gf]
          [Dirty Flix] and others great sites...

            Comment

            • JesseQuinn
              feeding the wolves
              • Aug 2012
              • 6622
              #4
              never experienced your situ personally as I don't offer free anything but I do know tweaking my fraud scrub to prevent card thieves while letting the good peeps get through is constant adjustment

              remember client side card-issuing banks have their own scrubs as well that can change from time to time that you have zero control over, so you gotta adjust to that too, often

              also pay attention to major card info breaches, for example a while back Cali payments were like toxic waste to me so many were carders after a big biz got hacked, it was very annoying while it lasted trying to block them without affecting real clients

              do you have a MID or do you use an IPSP? if the latter, not much control you have over this stuff, if your own MID just keep tweaking. pay attention to trends and look at payment details for both approvals and declines to see if any patterns emerge that you can tweak to facilitate legit client payment

              and fuck that 05, opaque as fuck even with your own MID

              not sure this is helpful, hope so and good luck
              throwing molotav cocktails at the precinct

                Comment

                • lavish_
                  Registered User
                  • Sep 2018
                  • 11
                  #5
                  Originally posted by JesseQuinn
                  do you have a MID or do you use an IPSP?
                  I utilize the gateway API, so I think I have a MID? Also, that was helpful. Thank you!

                  Originally posted by fuzebox
                  A lot of banks decline known high risk acquirers.
                  How do we make money as adult websites then, if so many users have these banks that deny the adult transactions? I'm new to the industry

                  Originally posted by Miguel
                  Does your free trial provide limited or full access to content?
                  Full access with the free trial

                    Comment

                    • JesseQuinn
                      feeding the wolves
                      • Aug 2012
                      • 6622
                      #6
                      Originally posted by fuzebox
                      A lot of banks decline known high risk acquirers.
                      I've found French banks are the worst for this. so many legit clients declined for absolutely no reason at a very disproportionate rate. I'm US-based with my MID tho, may be diff in Europe

                      two experiences personally with my own clients as well where French dudes who spent a ton had their banks cb the payments without even contacting them. I'm talking 1000's over months and in one case over years, not usual carder behavior

                      in both cases the clients were so upset and apologetic and sent me letters to provide for the disputes proving they wanted to pay me and nope, their banks ended up overruling my initial cb dispute wins

                      one sent me a site payment using a different bank account, the other actually personally wired me the cash to get the debt resolved

                      so much fun for them, let alone me

                      but yeah, something about France
                      throwing molotav cocktails at the precinct

                        Comment

                        • JesseQuinn
                          feeding the wolves
                          • Aug 2012
                          • 6622
                          #7
                          Originally posted by lavish_
                          I utilize the gateway API, so I think I have a MID? Also, that was helpful. Thank you!
                          most welcome

                          to tell whether you are with an MID or an IPSP the definitions:

                          MID: Your own merchant account with a bank that processes your payments and you use your own gateway (Orbital, Payze, Mobius etc) to set your own fraud scrub

                          IPSP: CCBill, Verotel, Epoch who process your payments for you and they set your scrub for fraud so you lack control. I make far more money with a MID than I ever did with an IPSP although they can be a total asset if you have an affiliate system for your site, so you gotta weigh all of your individual needs

                          IPSPs are great to a point even without an aff program. I started out with one myself as I had no processing history (lol Zombaio's cheap azzes ripping me off for a $150 reserve cuz I stopped using them when they stopped paying people-a gfyer here got me paid the rest of what I was owed -xxxx- though) but as you grow consider getting your own MID if you aren't going down the sponsor program route. all the co's I mentioned above in the MID section can help you with that

                          and if you are with Zombaio move now, even back in the day when they paid and I was happy with them their decline rate was unusually high. and they do not pay

                          wish you luck
                          throwing molotav cocktails at the precinct

                            Comment

                            • Sly
                              Let's do some business!
                              • Sep 2004
                              • 31376
                              #8
                              Are you doing an authorization to confirm their card will work at the end of the trial? It will create a little friction and potentially lower conversions but if you're not happy it's worth a try.

                              So if your membership is $30, you authorize for $30.

                              Send me a PM if you need more details.
                              Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted

                              Windows VPS now available
                              Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc.
                              Click here for more details.

                                Comment

                                • ZENRA
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Sep 2016
                                  • 655
                                  #9
                                  Wait, 90% of all your trial subscriptions that don't cancel get bank declines (DNH, NSF, etc)? That seems inhumanly high.
                                  ZENRA | Subtitled Japanese AV | @ZENRAMANIAC
                                  JAV VR Content Manager at SexLikeReal

                                    Comment

                                    • lavish_
                                      Registered User
                                      • Sep 2018
                                      • 11
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by ZENRA
                                      Wait, 90% of all your trial subscriptions that don't cancel get bank declines (DNH, NSF, etc)? That seems inhumanly high.
                                      Yes, so far that's what's been happening. I agree it's insanely high. It's honestly perplexing to me

                                        Comment

                                        • lavish_
                                          Registered User
                                          • Sep 2018
                                          • 11
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by Sly
                                          Are you doing an authorization to confirm their card will work at the end of the trial?
                                          The user inputs their personal information and billing information at the beginning of the free trial. It's not until the end of the trial that my gateway pushes the transaction officially. So no, I'm not currently doing an auth in the beginning. Is that what you're referring to? Doing an auth at the beginning of the free trial?

                                            Comment

                                            • ike tronix
                                              Registered User
                                              • Oct 2016
                                              • 3
                                              #12
                                              Offering $0-auth free trials certainly means much lower conversion rates. You will have tons of people tryING to get the free trial with fucked up CCs, no fund prepaids etc. And if you do not put any auth, then you have no idea what is going on with their cards until you try to charge them.

                                              Generally speaking, check with your gateway & PSP. Make sure all configured well (Some providers even rejects $0-auths directly). Make sure scrubbing is not fucking you over and over, and also make sure the traffic quality is clean. An affiliate could be flooding you with no honor cards.

                                                Comment

                                                • Sly
                                                  Let's do some business!
                                                  • Sep 2004
                                                  • 31376
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by lavish_
                                                  The user inputs their personal information and billing information at the beginning of the free trial. It's not until the end of the trial that my gateway pushes the transaction officially. So no, I'm not currently doing an auth in the beginning. Is that what you're referring to? Doing an auth at the beginning of the free trial?
                                                  That's what I was referring to, yes.

                                                  What you can do is really going to depend on what kind of data you have. You want to see what these people are doing through each step of the process. They may not even be giving you good cards, and if that's the case, that would explain some of the problems. Or you may have a high amount of transactions from a "bad" country, that would explain some of the problems.

                                                  What gateway are you using?
                                                  Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted

                                                  Windows VPS now available
                                                  Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc.
                                                  Click here for more details.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • The Porn Nerd
                                                      Living The Dream
                                                      • Jun 2009
                                                      • 19787
                                                      #14
                                                      Quick fix: do away with the Trials for a week, see if you get signups.
                                                      My Affiliate Programs:
                                                      Porn Nerd Cash | Porn Showcase | Aggressive Gold

                                                      Over 90 paysites to promote!
                                                      Now on Teams: peabodymedia

                                                        Comment

                                                        • NYRangers
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Jul 2004
                                                          • 552
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by Sly
                                                          Are you doing an authorization to confirm their card will work at the end of the trial? It will create a little friction and potentially lower conversions but if you're not happy it's worth a try.

                                                          So if your membership is $30, you authorize for $30.

                                                          Send me a PM if you need more details.
                                                          This. There are other things to try but start with this and weed out the garbage.
                                                          Understand the business before you open your mouth.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • EddyTheDog
                                                              Just Doing My Own Thing
                                                              • Jan 2011
                                                              • 25433
                                                              #16
                                                              I would say pre-pay cards could be part of the issue - I use one with a few dollars on it for free trials - If I want to use the service after the trial I change to my 'real card' - I have been stung a few times - Once for nearly $500 when they have billed even though I cancelled - Trying get a charge-back is a nightmare...

                                                              I doubt I am the only one doing this.....

                                                                Comment

                                                                • movieguy
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Sep 2003
                                                                  • 190
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by lavish_
                                                                  Full access with the free trial
                                                                  It should always be limited, such as they only get to watch one video.

                                                                  If you don't provide a limited trial, what stops a user from rejoining every once in a while and scraping your content? What would stop a pirate from scraping all your content? Now imagine this as free.

                                                                  Originally posted by lavish_

                                                                  How do we make money as adult websites then, if so many users have these banks that deny the adult transactions? I'm new to the industry
                                                                  Most websites use IPSPs instead of gateway billing like what you have. That means your transactions are more likely to succeed, as you don't have a shared blacklist and can customize your scrubbing/fraud parameters.

                                                                  As stated by others, the reason so many of your attempts are declining, is because seeing "free", you attract low-caliber users signing up with prepaid and near-zero cards. In places like the US, prepaid card use is on the rise, especially for online purchases.

                                                                  Very simple solutions:

                                                                  1. Don't provide full access. Provide limited access
                                                                  2. If you wish, set the parameter in your billing to deny prepaids and force users to use a normal CC. That will drop your signup rate, but you'll get better-quality cards (although this is a very strict solution). Alternatively, do $1 trials
                                                                  3. Work with a cross-sale partner such as bang.com or mindgeek, who are willing to buy your cross-sales, and probably give you tips on how to best manage these transactions, as it is their interest to get high-quality, chargeable cards as well.
                                                                  Less fighting, more money-making

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • fuzebox
                                                                      making it rain
                                                                      • Oct 2003
                                                                      • 22352
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by lavish_
                                                                      The user inputs their personal information and billing information at the beginning of the free trial. It's not until the end of the trial that my gateway pushes the transaction officially.
                                                                      Ooooof I hope you're not paying anyone PPS on those signups!

                                                                      Preauth that money.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • 2MuchMark
                                                                          Mark of 2Much.net
                                                                          • Aug 2004
                                                                          • 50977
                                                                          #19
                                                                          GREAT advice from JesseQuinn in this thread.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • venus
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Jan 2003
                                                                              • 3112
                                                                              #20
                                                                              we id the same not long ago and same thing happened to us. what they do is use a card that has no money on it, its accepted because it s a real card, just no money on it. you can fix the problem by charging 1$ ..that got rid of the free loaders.


                                                                              Originally posted by lavish_
                                                                              I offer a free trial on my website. I'm getting decent traffic and sign-ups, but when the trial is over and my gateway goes to charge the customer, 90% of the time, the transaction gets declined due to issuer declined, insufficient funds, AVS issue, etc.

                                                                              I'm guessing it's users abusing the system. Is there any way to avoid this? Has anyone else experienced this? I'm in a conundrum because for each transaction, even if it's declined, I have to pay the transaction fee. So I'm essentially funding these declined transactions and it sucks. Would love to hear your thoughts.
                                                                              Muscle/Fitness Adult Affiliate Program
                                                                              Since 1997 www.venuscash.com

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • lavish_
                                                                                  Registered User
                                                                                  • Sep 2018
                                                                                  • 11
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by venus
                                                                                  we id the same not long ago and same thing happened to us. what they do is use a card that has no money on it, its accepted because it s a real card, just no money on it. you can fix the problem by charging 1$ ..that got rid of the free loaders.
                                                                                  Did your conversion rate decline after implementing the $1 trial? Do you find that your real customers don't mind a $1 trial vs free?

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • lavish_
                                                                                      Registered User
                                                                                      • Sep 2018
                                                                                      • 11
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Thanks everyone for the great advice on this thread.

                                                                                      The general consensus I'm understanding (for my situation) is that I should change the free trial to a $1.00 trial, that way I can weed out the declined transactions upfront.

                                                                                      If anyone else has any other advice / experience regarding this, please let me know!

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • venus
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Jan 2003
                                                                                          • 3112
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          conversion was 100% after changing from free trial...people who are into your site dont mind...the only people sending hate mail will be those that want a free ride

                                                                                          Originally posted by lavish_
                                                                                          Did your conversion rate decline after implementing the $1 trial? Do you find that your real customers don't mind a $1 trial vs free?
                                                                                          Muscle/Fitness Adult Affiliate Program
                                                                                          Since 1997 www.venuscash.com

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • fuzebox
                                                                                              making it rain
                                                                                              • Oct 2003
                                                                                              • 22352
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by lavish_
                                                                                              Thanks everyone for the great advice on this thread.

                                                                                              The general consensus I'm understanding (for my situation) is that I should change the free trial to a $1.00 trial, that way I can weed out the declined transactions upfront.

                                                                                              If anyone else has any other advice / experience regarding this, please let me know!
                                                                                              People who will join for $0 but not $1 will not make you any money in the long run

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • thommy
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Jun 2003
                                                                                                  • 5469
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Originally posted by EddyTheDog
                                                                                                  I would say pre-pay cards could be part of the issue - I use one with a few dollars on it for free trials - If I want to use the service after the trial I change to my 'real card' - I have been stung a few times - Once for nearly $500 when they have billed even though I cancelled - Trying get a charge-back is a nightmare...

                                                                                                  I doubt I am the only one doing this.....
                                                                                                  yes prepaid cards is one part - the other part are stolen credit cards.
                                                                                                  those card credentials are sold in the darknet and they are "tested" with trials to prove that they are working.
                                                                                                  Open for handpicked publishers and advertisers:
                                                                                                  www.trafficfabrik.com

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • movieguy
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • Sep 2003
                                                                                                      • 190
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by lavish_
                                                                                                      Thanks everyone for the great advice on this thread.

                                                                                                      The general consensus I'm understanding (for my situation) is that I should change the free trial to a $1.00 trial, that way I can weed out the declined transactions upfront.

                                                                                                      If anyone else has any other advice / experience regarding this, please let me know!
                                                                                                      Limited trials are your priority. Even with $1 trials, you'll still get hammered by bad cards and people leeching your content. I have tested on my site many times with limited vs unlimited trials. Unlimited trials fail to convert. Do not offer trials until you can limit access.

                                                                                                      You get penalized heavily for chargebacks. The $1 trials help mitigate the stolen card issue that you get with free trials, but if your site is small and your traffic isn't dirty (from back offers or popups), most of your users are not arriving with stolen cards, ready to bang you. There's no real penalty for decline transactions except for the nominal gateway fee of a few cents.

                                                                                                      Even big websites working with IPSPs - for example, BLACKED.com and EPOCH - try $4.95 trials and build up a good transaction history before attempting $1 trials.

                                                                                                      In summary:
                                                                                                      1. in your member management and CMS, create a class of users for trials who have limited/restricted content
                                                                                                      2. Try $4.95 trials first
                                                                                                      3. Then try $1 trials


                                                                                                      my experience: netvideogirls, femjoy, joymii, badoink, wellhello
                                                                                                      Less fighting, more money-making

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • movieguy
                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                          • Sep 2003
                                                                                                          • 190
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          also should add that you can't do free -> auto rebill anymore. It's opt-in only
                                                                                                          Less fighting, more money-making

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • lavish_
                                                                                                              Registered User
                                                                                                              • Sep 2018
                                                                                                              • 11
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by movieguy
                                                                                                              In summary:
                                                                                                              1. in your member management and CMS, create a class of users for trials who have limited/restricted content
                                                                                                              2. Try $4.95 trials first
                                                                                                              3. Then try $1 trials
                                                                                                              This is great advice. I will try your solutions out - thank you so much!

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                Previous template Next
                                                                                                                Working...